Question: Could you perhaps tease us with a list of who the Titans and avatars are?
I do love being an academic tease, so yes. Also, hopefully writing this post will somehow make our ability to work on the project this weekend even greater!
We're starting with six basic Titans, but not the same ones the book begins with; instead, we're beginning with antagonists for the six pantheons we consider the most "core" to the setting, namely the Aesir, Anunna, Aztlanti, Devas, Dodekatheon and Pesedjet. (Don't worry, fans of evil beasties opposing other pantheons - they'll get their turn, but if we waited until everyone was done to start posting these things, there might be a revolt among the people.) The Titanrealms are pretty much finalized, but we're still working with individual Avatars and creatures within them, so much of our list is subject to change.
However, I will tease you with a list of the six starting Titanrealms themselves and their dominant Avatars:
Emamu, Titanrealm of Beasts, led by Tiamat and opposed to the Anunna
Keku, Titanrealm of Darkness,, led by Apep and opposed to the Pesedjet
Maya, Titanrealm of Illusion,, led by Mayasura (or is it) and opposed to the Devas
Muspelheim, Titanrealm of Fire,, led by Surtr and opposed to the Aesir
Ourea, Titanrealm of Nature,, led by Gaia/Kronos and opposed to the Dodekatheon
Tamoanchan, Titanrealm of the Heavens,, led by Mixcoatl and opposed to the Aztlanti
Of course, anything could still happen if we have an amazing brainwave that demands immediate action, but these are pretty solid for the moment. Several other crazy demands on our attention have finally wrapped up lately, so hopefully we'll have enough time to really buckle down with these guys now.
I can't wait. Big bad guys are the best bad guys.
I can't wait for the Titans. My favorite part about Titans is that you never actually necessarily have to go along with how they are presented. So if nobody wants to play an Anunna in a game, for example, you can still have Typhon wrecking Mount Olympus in unholy vengeance. They're such great antagonists. Also, from Vala's page and the blog posts, it seems Aten still exists. Is he just an avatar of another Greater Titan?
ReplyDeleteYeah, having multiple Avatars from different cultures means every Titan be bothering every pantheon if you want them to and it makes for a good story. There's no reason at all that all Illusion shenanigans have to be confined to India or all Fire problems to Iceland.
DeleteAten will almost certainly still exist as an Avatar of the Titanrealm of Light, though whose major problem that particular Titanrealm will be hasn't yet been decided. Aten should definitely still be around being a pain in the collective Pesedjet ass; we just moved Darkness to being their main opponent because Apep and his continual quest to swallow the sun and blow up the world is the greatest mythic antagonist of the Egyptian gods bar none.
Interesting. I'm curious about what Tamoanchan looks like, Could you give a quick summary please?
ReplyDeleteMy god, it's full of stars!
DeleteThanks a ton for the update. Little question though. Why do you consider those 6 the 'core' pantheons?
ReplyDeleteBecause they're what we would consider the most important and defining pantheons in a broad overview of the world's many mythologies. The Anunna are the oldest and the first, laying the groundwork for all others; the Aesir, Dodekatheon and Pesedjet are the most widely-known and celebrated ancient pantheons in existence, while the Aztlanti epitomize the very different mindsets and practices of the Mesoamerican religions and the Devas helped shape not only most other European and Asian religions but still remain a mightily respected force in the modern world today.
DeleteBasically, they're the six we would have chosen to include if we were planning to write Scion from the ground up and choose six pantheons to begin with, the way Hero did. They're the most famous for the average gamer and represent the best spread of different cultures and myths around the world.
(Which is not to say of course that we think other pantheons are less important or awesome, because clearly we would like to represent every pantheon in existence in Scion, but these feel like the best set of basics to us.)
I'm really surprised you left out the Celestial Bureaucracy. I know they are a bit of a mess because of their expansionist habits, but they stand as more widely known, relevant, and active than any other pantheon except the Dodekatheon and the Devas.
DeleteUntrue statement is untrue.
DeleteIt's a matter in that case of notoriety from this end of the spectrum - as I said, aiming for the average gamer. While the Shen are certainly very relevant, having millions of worshipers and whatnot, they're also not really very well-known (at least over here in the US) at all. I'd be very comfortable with a bet that 99% of the city I live in (not New York anymore, but also not Podunk Nowhere) has never heard of any of the Chinese gods except possibly Sun Wukong, and even he isn't nearly universal. I'd make the odds even worse that most people over here know any stories about the Shen, or even any real features of their religion beyond dragon parades and fortune cookies.
DeleteWhich isn't surprising, because Chinese myth and the pantheon attached to it are structured very differently from the more familiar Indo-European ones. As I said above, I love all pantheons and of course want them all included - but if I were shooting for the core pantheons to give Scion the best worldwide scope and immediate interest for the average player, the CB, in all their complex and (to the average Westerner) alien glory, would not be in the first round.
I can definitely understand that. Spending time in China means you get flooded with Shen imagery and can really see the impact they have had in the past and currently do, but it would be a matter of perspective.
DeleteJust like your average citizen in China has never heard of the Aesir, Anunna, or the Aztlanti (teotl?), this game is geared for westerners and should probably cater to their common mythologies first and foremost.
If I was basing it off "Pantheons people know" I would replace the Anunna with the Amatsukami. I know they're your babies, but I feel like with the pervasiveness of anime and the importance of Japan in the Western World, the Japanese have a great deal more influence abroad than the Shen, who hold their firm and powerful grip on their land of China. The Anunna are known by academics who read The Epic of Gilgamesh in World Lit, but I wouldn't say they're known by the layman. The Pesedjet, as they are in the book, are the more well-known "distantly ancient Pantheon of strange and interesting Gods."
DeleteI'd have to disagree again - Japanese pop culture is certainly well known, but that doesn't translate to Japanese mythology. I'd say they're marginally better off for Western audiences than the Chinese, but only marginally; there's no more mass awareness of who people like Tsukiyomi or Hachiman are than there are of people like Fuxi or Xiwangmu. There are a few Japanese manga and anime I've seen that actually do give you a window into the mythology, but most don't, and the popularity of Bleach, One Piece and Sailor Moon aren't doing anything at all to make the Amatsukami more well known.
DeleteThe Anunna are definitely not a layman's pantheon, you're right - they're included in the first six for us because they're one of the most important in existence from a point of view of history and stories. Practically everyone else is based on them as the first pantheon, and while I think the Pesedjet should be right there with them, I still feel strongly that they're a good choice. We're trying to strike a balance between well-known, well-liked, culturally important and easily accessible. It's a lot to do.
If we stretched to add a seventh "base" pantheon, I think it would probably be the Amatsukami, but all this theorizing is based on the original book's model of starting with six. :)
That covers every pantheon represented in your active player character roster other than the Loa. Could I dare be greedy enough to ask for one more morsel on what your version of their Titan/Titanrealm might be?
ReplyDeleteThe Loa are in line for a total overhaul, not just of their Titan but their pantheon and PSP as well; over time we've realized that we aren't huge fans of their handling in Scion and want to see if we can improve it. So we don't have firm Titanic plans for them right at this moment, but we've been tentatively discussing them being opposed to a Titan of sickness/plague/pestilence or something similar, possibly helmed by Shango's erstwhile brother Babalu Aye.
DeleteBut that's all very theoretical at the moment. They need a good, long sit-down. :)
Since Tamoanchan and Ehekatoyaal are listed separately under Scent the Titanic? I'm guessing Tamoanchan is associated with Stars primarily and Sky only secondarily.
ReplyDeleteSpeaking of Scent the Titanic, what does it turn up for Ourea, Maya, Emamu, and your Homebrews from the Elohim and Bogovi? Is Keku's "sensation" the same as Soku no Kami's, for Scent the Titanic?
You are correct - Tamoanchan is associated with stars and the moon, while Ehekatoyaatl (probably destined for a renaming that makes more sense) is more air, sky, clouds, et cetera.
DeleteOurea is probably going to give off the same uncomfortable allergic pollen reaction that Terra currently does on that table, and I imagine Keku's sensation will be similar to the current Soku-no-Kumi's. Mayu, Emamu, Stvaranje and Sedeq haven't yet been assigned sensations... we should get on that! PCs are meddling with things they shouldn't already and they probably need to know!
Pending.