She Who Fills the Realm of Earth

Question: I've read that there is a version of the Vritra myth where Sarasvati kills Vritra. What do you think of the idea?

This is a fun one. Actually, there's not an alternate version of the myth, really; anywhere the myth of Vritra's slaying is retold, you will almost always see it attributed to Indra. However, there is a single mention in the Rigveda, in a hymn specifically dedicated to Sarasvati, that suggests that she might have killed Vritra. Griffith's translation of the lines says:

May the divine Sarasvatī, rich in her wealth, protect us well,
Furthering all our thoughts with might
Whoso, divine Sarasvatī, invokes thee where the prize is set,
Like Indra when he smites the foe.
Aid us, divine Sarasvad, thou who art strong in wealth and power
Like Pūṣan, give us opulence.
Yea, this divine Sarasvatī, terrible with her golden path,
Foe-slayer, claims our eulogy.

Sarasvati is here directly compared to Indra and his prowess at smiting enemies, and in the verse where she is called in this (embarrassingly poor) translation "foe-slayer", the actual word used for her is vritragni, which translates more literally as slayer of Vritra and is a cognate to Indra's traditional title of vritrahan.

So what we really have is a single line in a single hymn that calls Sarasvati by the title Vritra-Slayer, or thereabouts. To our knowledge, however, there is no alternative version of the myth that actually describes Sarasvati slaying Vritra, nor rewrites that story to make it about her exploits rather than Indra's. So in that case, the question is really why that epithet is given to her here, and what it might mean.

There are tons of possible philosophical interpretations. For example, the hymn is here praising Sarasvati's powers over wealth and good fortune, so it may be calling her the slayer of Vritra symbolically; as it says in earlier lines, he who calls upon Sarasvati to succeed smites his foe like Indra in battle, so it might be viewed as Sarasvati granting her supplicants this symbolic power to succeed. It might also be suggesting that she lent her divine aid, in a symbolic or spiritual sense, to Indra himself, and that this in part enabled him to succeed in slaying Vritra. It might be referring to the fact that Sarasvati is the goddess of the river that bears her name, and that as a water goddess she symbolically defeats Vritra, bringer of drought, with her life-giving waters. Or it might be a purely metaphorical title, with nothing to do with Vritra himself at all, that is intended to showcase Sarasvati's great spiritual might and how important she is to her worshipers.

But if you guys would follow me down the rabbit hole of comparative mythology for a second, here's an interesting tidbit: this myth is actually one of the many places where Persian and Hindu mythology intersect and probably share common roots. Vritragni is exceptionally close to verethragna, which happens to be the ancient Avestan term for "slayer of the dragon" or "slayer of the evil" and the major epithet of the god Vahram, the warrior and god of victory among the Yazata. And, just as we see among the Deva, while there's one major god who bears the name vritrahan/verethragna, there is also one major goddess who is referred to as the slayer of the dragon in a single other instance. In the Persians' case, it is Anahita - like Sarasvati, a goddess of waters and a benevolent figure who responds to the requests of her worshipers for wisdom and aid - who grants to the hero Thraetaona her own magical power so that he will be able to successfully defeat Azhi Dahaka, the great dragon of Persian mythology.

Of course, Sarasvati and Anahita aren't the same person; their pantheons have been separated (violently and with great dislike for one another) for thousands of years, and the two of them, even if they might have shared some common roots or influences in the past, are clearly no longer even remotely the same figure. But we still may be seeing an echo of both cultures telling the same incredibly ancient story, still lingering on after century upon century of retelling with new cultural additions and interpretations. In Anahita's case, she clearly did not go fight the dragon; she bestowed a boon of victory on a supplicant who offered her the proper praise and sacrifices, and he went out and actually did the deed. In Sarasvati's case, we have no reason to think she ever fought Vritra herself, and plenty of evidence that Indra did, but it wouldn't be a stretch at all to think that she might have granted Indra her support, just as the Vedic hymn above calls upon her to grant it to others who offer her their devotion.

So, we doubt, in this case, that Sarasvati was ever actually believed to be the dragon-slayer instead of Indra. But that doesn't mean she's any less amazing or powerful, simply that she chooses to manifest that power in a less direct manner.

Socializing in the Sky

Are you guys ready for another session of marathon vlogs? Here they come! Today's is about politics and insanity among the gods, who never seem to have getting along near the top of their to-do lists.

Question: From a social perspective, what does it mean to the gods when one god has more associated purviews and/or Epics than another god?

Question: Would it be possible for a god, through either Fate-dickery or Magic or just sheer force of will, to change their modus operandi? I have a game idea that partially revolves around the idea of Odin abandoning his normal methods to try the novel approach of honesty and good faith in order to avert Ragnarok. Is this plausible?

Question: Can you elaborate on the relationship between the Yazata and the Deva? Why do they see each other as enemies?

Question: You always talk about gods leaving the World because of Fatebonds. Why did they stay in the first place? They would have known about Fatebonds during that time. Was the risk just worth the reward?

Question: Would it be accurate to say that pantheons that have more Virtues in common (such as the Aesir and Nemetondevos) would be on better terms with each other than those that have few in common (like the Anunna and Theoi)?

Question: Every god has a rivals and enemies listing on their page, but what does that MEAN to them? To be specific, Odin has enemies - does he hate them, or are they merely names on his "to kill list"? When you say a god has enemies, does that mean hatred and active attempts at murder and sabotage, or something less intense and more passive?

Question: I've got a Scion game coming up where all the PCs are either Kami or Teotl. I was wondering if you had any ideas for ways in which those two pantheons would interact, as I'm currently drawing a blank.

Just be nice, everyone. Is that so hard?!

Dogpile

Question: I’m running a game that, rather than dealing with the Titans, involves a cold war between the Dodekatheon and everyone who hates them, and suddenly becomes violent due to the recent discovery of Metis’s son outside of the Dodekatheon’s sphere of influence. My problem is that I can only think of two pantheons that would be angry enough to go to war with them: the Nemetondevos and the Elohim. Are there any other pantheons that would be angry with them? Would they have any allies?

Oh, man, a Dodekatheon hate-fest? Invite us!

The biggest pantheon I can think of that should be involved here is the Pesedjet. The Egyptian gods are millennia-long frenemies with the Dodekatheon; sometimes they have positive commerce and even share myths, and sometimes they fight over territory and call each other racial slurs across the Mediterranean. There was a long history of argumentative interaction between the two even before Rome sailed across the water and imposed their own rulers in the Ptolemaic dynasties, and there're almost limitless possibilities for who wants to do what in this situation. Is Isis cool with the Greeks, who had temples to her in some of their own territories? What about Horus, who saw his rightful line of pharaohs replaced by invaders from the north? How does Bastet feel about Greco-Roman influence basically transforming her from a sun goddess into a lunar deity, and do the highly regimented death gods blame foreign burial practices for causing the erosion of their own process for the afterlife? Do Thoth and Hermes get together and laugh about the idea of Hermes Trismegistus, or is one or the other or both of them pissed off about the situation?

It's a total powderkeg of a pantheon when it comes to the Dodekatheon, and you can never tell if they'll be on their side as ancestral allies, undermining them as long-time enemies or split, with some of the gods going one way and others another (what a surprise, the Egyptian pantheon has disagreement among the ranks!). Any dogpile on the Dodekatheon has to include them in some way, and since they're also longtime allies of the Elohim, it's inevitable that they're going to get involved.

You might also want to investigate what the native Roman gods are doing and what side they come down on in this conflict. On the one hand, the Dodekatheon in their guise as the Dii Consentes brought massive glory to the empire and are some of the most recognizable members of Roman religion, but on the other hand, they seized control of the pantheon from the native Italian gods who might not have wanted their "generous" help in making their own way. Purely Roman gods like Janus might have an axe to grind, whether by openly siding against them or trying to sabotage them from within, but then again some might support Zeus and his rule and remain staunch defenders of their conglomerate pantheon. There's plenty of opportunity for internecine struggle, back-door dealings and zany avoidance comedy just within the Dodekatheon itself.

As for possible allies for the beleaguered Greeks, don't despair, they have a few. The Yazata might be a surprising source of help; the pantheons have traditionally cooperated fairly well, with Mithra even enjoying a robust Roman cult as Mithras, but they're also tricky thanks to some lingering bad feelings about invasion forces on both sides and the fact that the Dodekatheon have to be on their best behavior around their eastern allies or risk offending them into leaving (or worse, punishing them for their transgressions). They might also be able to call on the Bogovi for aid, who also had quite a bit of friendly overlap and fairly peaceful coexistence with them back in the day.

Mono-Mono

Question: I once heard that Zoroastrianism is a monotheistic religion, but then you have Mithra and the other gods. What's going on? Was I just misinformed?

You kind of were, but it's a common piece of misinformation. First, let's talk about what monotheism is, and then we'll dive into how it affects Zoroastrianism!

Zoroastrianism is often called a monotheistic religion because it holds Ahura Mazda, the omnipotent and all-wise, as the most powerful being in the universe, the eventual inevitable defeater of evil, the creator of all things and the sole source of benevolence in the universe. He's very comparable to the big-G Gods of Judaism, Christianity and Islam in power, scope and universal benevolence, and has probably become even more like them over time as those religions (especially Islam) grew up beside and influenced Zoroastrianism.

But Zoroastrianism isn't actually monotheistic. It's monolatristic, meaning that it acknowledges that other gods exist, but worships only one of them as the supreme power in the universe, whereas monotheism believes that there is only one god and all others are either nonexistent or some lesser power pretending to the title. Zoroastrianism is full of references to other gods, from the daevas being acknowledged as gods who are simply evil by virtue of being misled or purveyors of lies that come from Angra Mainyu, to the presence of the Yazata who are expressly acknowledged as divinities, to the references to Ahura Mazda as greatest among deities, not simply the only one that exists.

(In case you were wondering about the difference, another closely related concept is that of henotheism, which is the practice of worshiping a particular totem god above others despite acknowledging others that are equally worthy of power. The quick rule of thumb to tell the three apart is that monotheism says there is only one god, monolatrism says there is only one god worth worshiping above the others, and henotheism says there are lots of worthy gods but only this one is worshiped by a particular people.)

Zoroastrianism does have a lot of concepts in common with monotheistic religions; it has a strong good/evil duality, a single all-powerful god-figure that rules the universe and a heavy focus on the purity and good works of its worshipers to guarantee their passage through judgment day and into a heavenly afterlife. That, and the strong influence of monotheism in Persia and nearby areas, have combined to make casual readers about the religion often lump it in under the "monotheistic" label in error.

Actually, some of the Yazata, most notably Mithra and Anahita, are likely to predate Ahura Mazda completely; there's some evidence (usually from neighboring cultures that recorded Persian culture before they were recording it themselves) that they were worshiped in ancient Persia before the rise of Zoroastrianism, which only arrived on the scene around 600 B.C.E. There was certainly an ancient set of polytheistic Persian gods that were worshiped prior to Zoroaster rolling in and setting up Ahura Mazda as the supreme deity of the region, and several of the Yazata were probably among them, then translating on into the new religion as integral parts of it.

Liar Liar

What do the Yazata think of Shapeshifting and Illusions? Do they count as 'Lies' in the metaphysical sense, or does Asha only care about straight up verbal lying?

Its up to each ST to really decide, but the guidelines should be, the "the heart/soul of the law, not the rule". I could go on a giant list of things that would be considered lies vs things that wouldnt be, but that list would be giant. Just use common sense and good judgement. If the illusion or shapeshift is attempting to mislead or decieve then it probably counts as a "lie." If its for other reasons, then it isnt.

If you change into a cow, and everyone knows "o, thats billy, hes in his cow form" then you have no problem. If you sneak into a herd of cows to purposefully(or accidentally really) mislead someone into thinking you're a generic cow(or a cow other then billy) then its a "lie".

Illusion has it a bit harder. The whole idea there is to trick and decieve, and there are few illusion boons that dont necessarily do that(and there will be more in the future). So not decieveing is more difficult.


However there is another metaphysical answer, and it leans towards the relationship between the devas and the yazatas. To the devas, all of existence on earth is an illusion. So are illusions actually real? For the time that they are in existence, are they just as real as the rest of the planet? Is a real sound any different from a fake sound? Or an imagined sound? These arent questions I can really answer for you, because I think it depends on the game that is being run and the particular aspects of the "world" within the game.

Id generally lean towards(unless you have a metaplot reason against it), all illusions are lies.

Grimm Tidings

Vlog time again! We continue our Greatest Hits of the Inbox series (and may for a few more until we've gotten the number of questions under control again). Today, Titans and warriors and Yazata, oh my!

Question: If a Yazata Scion has Ashavan for Guardian and summons his Amesha Spenta, who then activates Unseen Shield, does he need to remain non-violent for the shield to function if he's not in it? Similarly, does a Stars Amesha Spenta need to see the stars?

Question: Is Olodumare a god or a Titan? And how can he be the greatest creator and power in the universe if his children like Eshu and Oshun keep punking him?

Question: Have you watched "Grimm"? If so, please give us your opinion of it and how the Grimms might fit into the Scion setting (I think they would fit better in Changeling, but I'm not the only one here). If not, please watch it, it is a neat series.

Question: Are there Titans or Titan Avatars that are sympathetic toward mortals, even if they battle against the gods?

Question: My Storyteller wants to divide the War purview into two separate paths (like the Health purview). I've told him it would be easier just to write two separate Avatars, but he's determined. Any advice?

Yay videos and productivity!

Today, We Have Failed Persia

Question: It seems kind of unfair that a Fertility-focused Persian Scion can get his Amesha Spenta two Legend earlier than his Sky-using counterpart, who literally has to be on the cusp of godhood. Would you consider it acceptable to let Yazata Scions choose in which order to buy the Amesha Spenta boons? They'd still have to buy them all to get the God level boons of course.

We discussed this a lot when we were working on the Asha rewrite back in the day. You're right; it is slightly unfair. We're sorry about that. But at the moment, we don't have a great fix in mind for it.

Asha, as originally written in the Scion: Yazata supplement, was a mess of a purview. It was clearly written by someone with a great understanding of Zoroastrian religious concepts and a lot of enthusiasm, but it was an absolute mechanical nightmare, underpowered here, overpowered there and bizarrely boring when you least expected it. The Amesha Spenta boons - Ameretat/Vohu Manah, Asha Vahishta/Haurvetat and Armaiti/Kshathra - as they were originally written do exactly what you're suggesting, and allowed a Scion to pick whichever auras of the Amesha Spentas they liked at each level. They were identical - in fact, so identical that the creators of the supplement didn't even bother giving them different levels and names, just lumped them together as "Asha OOOO to OOOOO OO".

If you went back to that, you'd just be going back to the published purview's roots, so if that floats your game, we won't stop you, of course. But we did change it for a reason, and the new setup is for reasons, too. We love reasons.

First of all, with the notable exception of Arete which we love in its beautiful simplicity, having a purview whose internal levels are "eh, whatever, pay escalating XP costs for the same thing three times" is incredibly disappointing and unexciting. Seriously, it's the same problem old Mystery used to have, except now in someone's PSP where things are supposed to be at their most awesome and flavorful. We found it generally appalling because it didn't have a good reason behind it - there's nothing in Persian mythology that suggests the kind of flexibility that would justify a mix-and-match-style purview (see: the Bogovi), and the repetition of the same power three times instead of writing separate ones looks an awful lot like someone didn't have enough ideas to fill out a whole PSP. And those different levels don't do anything different - even if you have purviews for all three you buy, why does the higher-level one cost more than the other two did? At least Arete adds more dice when it goes up, for crying out loud.

We don't know if there was a wordcount restriction that cut an entire chunk of the Yazata PSP or if there was just a lot of laziness or lack of inspiration involved, but in the end, Asha's midsection was a big gaping hole of boring, XP-sucking mess. Which sucks.

We totally recognize, however, that our current patch on it doesn't really fix it - at least, not nearly as well as we want it to be fixed. Cutting it into three distinct boons at least gives you different levels and a sense of continuity, and we intentionally set them up as dichotomies - Animal versus Plant, Fire versus Water, Sky versus Earth - in order to make them more closely align with the Zoroastrian concepts of equal and separate gods of those elements (that is, a single ahura almost never embodies two disparate forces). The order of which boons come when is also not arbitrary; it's based on the hierarchy of sacred elements in Zoroastrianism. Fertility and Animal, as boons that control worldly life and the sustenance of humans, come first because they're things that are less "powerful" in the grand scale of the universe; Fire and Water come next, as the potent underlying forces that support life and the essences that inspire religion and divinity; and finally Sky and Earth, the foundations that hold the universe together, come last as the most cosmic and difficult of the powers to harness. (This is all based on elemental theory, by the way, not on the Amesha Spentas themselves, who have no hierarchy and are considered equals under Ahura Mazda.)

All that helps give it more shape, form and meaning, but unfortunately the base problems - that your XP is basically being spent on the same thing three times and that you may or may not even have purviews that apply to those three times - are still there. We roughed the purview into decentish shape so our Yazata Scions could use it in our Eastern Promises game, but it needs another overhaul, not because it's broken but because it's just not as good as it could be. And damn, we hate it when things aren't as good as they could be.

So I sympathize with you, friend. It does indeed suck that your Scion who is one with the heavens doesn't get his Amesha Spenta until two Legend after his friend the gardener did. There's a good mythological reason - the guy with Fertility has chosen an earthly and "lesser" power by Yazata standards, so of course it's easier for him to master it than for you to master the awesome power of the sky - but there's not a good mechanical compensation for that, and we apologize for it. Faruza feels your pain.

I'd say we'll put Asha on the poll next time, but I kind of have a suspicion that not very many people are jonesing for that fix next and that it wouldn't garner much support. Not too many people play with Yazata PCs still, probably partly because the pantheon isn't very familiar to western gamers and partly because its supplement was such a ball-punching disaster. We think that's a shame because we love our Yazata, but we know the score, so this rework will probably have to go in the bin of Things We Need to Change for Our Own Games at Some Point but Nobody's Going to Vote for Them So We'll Get to It When We Get to It.

In the meantime, talk to your ST (or make a call, if you are the ST!) about how to use Asha in your own games, and please feel free to ask anything else about it you want to.

Open Hostilities

Question: So, I kind of wanted to know a little bit more about the universe you and John have made for your games. To be specific, I wanted to know what inter-pantheon disputes were going on. I know that the Aztecs and the Aesir were having some difficulties, as well as the Gaelic and the Olympians, but how about the others? Are Kalfu and Tsuki-Yomi battling it out on the moon, chucking space rocks at each other?

Inter-pantheon disputes. They are the stuff of epic disaster, and they have happened in our main universe a lot.

The two most obvious in the stories so far are the ones you mentioned; the Aesir are encroaching on Aztlanti territory and the Aztlanti are kind of peeved with them about it, and the Dodekatheon have renewed their ancient feud with the Nemetondevos. The first conflict has led to a lot of dead Scions and lesser immortals on both sides as the lower levels of the Aesir and Aztlanti powers fight amongst themselves while the gods keep giving them contradictory orders, and the second has killed at least one god already. Things are not looking good on either front, and they're going to get worse.

The Amatsukami, to jump a whole continent away, are mad at pretty much everybody, but they're specifically feuding with the Aesir, Dodekatheon, Aztlanti and Pesedjet at the moment. They attempted to simply create an impenetrable safeguard around Japan, preventing any Titans from touching it, but the other four pantheons banded together to stop them, correctly assessing that they would withdraw from helping fight the Titans if they no longer had a horse in the race. The direct assault on Japan was led by Odin, Thoth, Quetzalcoatl and Apollo, and again claimed the lives of at least two gods. It was successful in that the Amatsukami are forced to continue participating in the affairs of the world, but has earned their furious enmity against the pantheons that pulled it off (to the point where they're now actively trying to cause Ragnarok just as a big middle finger to everybody who stopped them).

The Devas and Yazata, as usual, are thoroughly opposed to one another and thwart one anothers' plans as every turn. This has been going on for millennia and isn't particularly new, but it causes severe problems for anyone trying to cooperate with both of them, and plays directly into the Titans' hands as they remain divided by fighting each other as much as their other enemies. A few of them occasionally cross over between pantheons, but there's no question of open truce at the moment.

The Aztlanti also recently experienced a resurgance of revolt from the Maya pantheon, which in our games had been conquered by them a while back but decided that they could make a bid for sovereignty again while the Aztec gods were distracted by Norsemen and Titans. As usually does with wars between Mesoamerican pantheons, things got very bloody very quickly, and at least two of the Maya gods perished in the struggle.

Unfortunately for the Australian pantheon, minions of the Aesir, Aztlanti and Dodekatheon swept through it on a killing and imprisoning rampage early in our games; not because they particularly disliked the Australian gods, but because they were on a mission to gain more power and influence for themselves by doing so. They succeeded, but dregs of the Australians live on in unexpected places, and any of them would no doubt be happy to see the pantheons that razed them stabbed in the back.

And, of course, the Pesedjet are in the middle of a civil war. So they've got their own problems.

Every pantheon usually has sparks fly when they encounter another set of gods, simply because they all have different customs, Virtues and agendas and usually bring planet-sized egos with them, to boot. But when they get into conflicts - real, serious conflicts that aren't easily smoothed over by a guy with Epic Charisma - people die. Even gods die. And while they're dying, the Titans are still oncoming, relentless in their onslaught.

Kids should probably learn to play nice sooner rather than later.

The Veil of Lies

Question: Is it permissible for the same Titanrealm to be simultaneously attacking two different Overworlds? As a specific example I had an idea of the Devas and the Yazata being under siege by the same Titanrealm, only for the Devas to see it as Maya, Titanrealm of Illusion, while the Yazata see it as Druj, Titanrealm of Lies, and the split between the pantheons is a result of machinations by the ruling Avatar Ahriman/Mayasura back during the First Titan War. Do you think the idea has any merit?

Holy shit. Who are you? Are you in our house? Oh, my god, the blog questions are coming from inside the house!

What you're describing is pretty much exactly the way we run the Titanrealm of Illusion; it is simultaneously opposing the Devas, who see it as led by Mayasura, lord of illusion, and the Yazata, who see it as led by Ahriman/Angra Mainyu, lord of lies. Lies, illusion, deception, and all other manner of obscuring what is actually there are the domain of the Titanrealm, which is so convincing at them that it has been confusing both pantheons for time immemorial. The Devas believe the Yazata work for the Titan, while the Yazata believe the same in reverse; both are unfortunately afflicted by the realm's tendency to use illusions of their one-time allies as mortal enemies against them.

So... yes, we would say the idea has merit, because it's what we're already doing and it works pretty beautifully. In all other cases, we prefer to stick with the one Titanrealm, one pantheon model, but for the Devas and Yazata, who are already one anothers' worst enemies, this setup makes a great deal of awesome mythical sense.

(Seriously, though, if you're in one of my closets or something, please leave while I'm at work.)

Of course, keep in mind that all Titanrealms are sort of simultaneously attacking all Overworlds; none of them are really only angry at one set of gods, but rather all opposed to all of them on a fundamental, order-and-preservation of the universe level. Titan Avatars of various cultures are likely to harry their home pantheons regardless of which pantheon the realm as a whole most often lays concerted siege to, so it's always possible for agents of Muspelheim to be attacking someone other than the Aesir. It's just not as common or concerted an effort.

Really, though, please don't hide in my trunk or anything.

The Indo-Iranian Connection

Question: What do you think of the Hindu god Varuna? I read somewhere that he was considered an asura (before that word was used to refer to demons specifically and just meant another class of god), so are you perhaps envisioning him as a Titan? Or is he not legendary enough to be a big part of Scion?

Varuna is indeed an asura - in fact, he's the leader of the asuras in Vedic texts, closely associated with other benevolent asura figures (Mitra and Aryaman, most notably) and considered a serious power to be reckoned with.

First of all, the definition of what an asura is has definitely changed over time, but the English translation of "demon" isn't really accurate in most cases. A more appropriate term would probably be "other god", with a heavy connotation of other translating to evil; asuras in later Hinduism are still usually acknowledged as powerful divinities, but that doesn't make them any nicer to be around, and the Devas have their hands full keeping them in check. In the earliest Hindu texts, on the other hand, the evil connotation is mostly absent; asuras are still somewhat foreign or "different" gods, acknowledged as not the same as the Devas, but they aren't necessarily antagonistic or evil, and are often cooperated with or called upon by mortal worshipers. Devas and asuras are so much recognized to both be classes of gods in early Hindu texts that the labels are even used interchangeably sometimes - Indra is occasionally referred to as an asura, for example, while Mitra is once in a while called a Deva. Varuna, as the mightiest and wisest of the asuras and their leader, is a representative of order and a power in the universe to be respected, not an antagonistic figure, and by the time asuras had begun to be considered more negatively, he had all but disappeared from Hindu myth.

Varuna's not the only one, by the way - Mitra, Aryaman, Bhaga and others are equally positive or at least neutral older asuras who became less and less important as the religion developed and the asuras became considered enemies of the gods rather than possible allies. None of them ever took on antagonistic roles against the Devas, and quietly faded out of the religion as a result, or, in a few cases, became considered Devas themselves and ceased to be referred to as asuras at all.

Which brings us on to a very important second definition of asura: linguistically, it's an exact cognate with the Persian ahura, meaning god. The pantheon of the Yazata are all ahuras, and among them are clearly gods who were once the asuras of Vedic myth; Mitra and Mithra, Aryaman and Airyaman, Soma and Haoma, Vayu and Vata-Vayu are all just the same deity when seen through two different cultures' religions. And by the same token, the enemies of the Yazata are the daevas, an obvious Persian version of the Devas; in Persian myth, Indra and Shiva (as Sarva) both appear as antagonistic foreign gods and followers of Ahriman. Just as the asuras of Vedic myth progressed from foreign gods who might be called upon for help and were later dropped from worship and considered evil, so in Persian myth were daevas originally considered merely gods who could not be trusted because they had been misled into believing falsehoods, and were later demoted to intrinsically evil beings themselves.

This is one of the reasons that games involving both the Devas and the Yazata are endlessly fascinating to us, because out of all pantheons, they have the unique situation of seeming to have been part of the same religion long ago in the dawn of civilization, but to now literally believe that their opposite numbers are all Titans. Exactly what happened to make the two faiths split so hard and uncompromisingly against one another is a mystery for pretty much everyone; even scholars can't come up with more than theories of social shifting (probably competing priesthoods or cults that got out of hand), since it happened so long ago that there aren't any good records detailing what caused the schism. The Devas/daevas and Yazata/asuras were once friends; now they hate each other. Storytellers have so many possibilities for what happened and how to make games out of it that it's almost overwhelmingly awesome.

But anyway, back to Varuna. Not everyone called an asura in Hindu myth needs to be among the ranks of the Yazata - after all, they probably apply the label to plenty of Titanspawn and other nasties now, pretty much anyone they don't like - so if there's no direct correlation between an asura and an ahura (or a deva and a daeva, for that matter), there's no need to try to invent one. However, Varuna probably is an ahura - and not just any ahura, but the biggest ahura of them all.

It's still a matter of scholarly debate in some circles, but we're pretty solidly down with the widely-held theory that Varuna and Ahura Mazda are probably the same figure. Both are the leaders of the ahuras/asuras, figures of cosmic power and wisdom who control the elements effortlessly and are chiefly concerned with order, justice and truth (rta for Vedic Varuna, and asha for Persian Ahura Mazda). Both of them have the same dude acting as their right-hand man (Mitra/Mithra), receive their offerings through holy purifying flame, and are considered omnipotent, omniscient and all-seeing. Ahura Mazda himself literally doesn't actually have a name - "Ahura Mazda" just means "the greatest god", a title rather than a name that leaves whether or not he once had a further identity ambiguous (but "Varuna" is in fact among the epithets assigned to him in the Avestas).

So, just as we don't really need to create antagonist asuras to be Mitra and Soma who are already gods of the Yazata, or antagonist daevas to be Indra and Sarva who are already gods of the Devas, we don't need to invent a new antagonist for Varuna. If Varuna is Ahura Mazda, then he, like many of the other Vedic ahuras, is simply a foreign divine power, one the Devas are opposed to for their own religious and political reasons. The leader of the asuras and the ahuras is one and the same.

Which of course brings us back full circle to what, exactly, Ahura Mazda should even be classified as, considering his near-monotheistic flavor and unreachable scale of power when compared to the lesser Yazata. The Scion books intentionally leave this vague and cloudy by simply claiming that he's been missing for a while and that Mithra's leading the pantheon in his absence, which neatly allows a Storyteller to run the Yazata without having to sweat why their all-powerful boss doesn't drop by and just solve all their problems.

A more reasonable approach, and the one we'd probably recommend, is that a being as powerful and remote from humanity as Ahura Mazda is probably a Titan like other pseudo-monotheistic figures such as Allah, Aten or El; the books shy away from this, most likely because they don't want to suggest that the ultimate good guy of Zoroastrianism is on the enemy team, but Titans come in many types and behaviors, and Ahura Mazda doesn't need to be evil to be one of them. He's more likely simply epically remote, doing his own incomprehensible thing in some incomprehensible Titanrealm. His extreme focus on law, order and righteousness may also prevent him from directly interfering or bothering people who fight for the right, making him still technically supporting the Yazata (or at least not opposing them). He's most likely part of the Titanrealm of Order; Sedeq if you use our version, or Logos if you run with the books (and in fact his benevolent-but-uninvolved schtick fits into Logos very well).

This has been a very long and proto-Indo-Iranian historically rambling post, but what it really boils down to is this: Varuna is probably a Titan, but not for the reasons you think. He's not just a side figure from Hindu mythology; he's running the whole show next door in Persia.

Burn Baby Burn

Question: I was reading the story about Ard and the fire god she loved and lost. This god sounds to me like either Agni or Surya from the Devas. What do you think?

I think you're right! It's almost certainly Agni (or a Persian memory of Agni, at any rate). Though Shiva is obviously the Lord of the Dance in the Hindu pantheon, Agni is also sometimes described or depicted as dancing, as a metaphor for leaping or dancing flames. The idea of using butter as a cosmetic is also very Agni-esque, as butter was considered one of the most pleasing sacrifices to the gods and Agni himself is said to have multiple tongues to lick it up when he consumes those sacrifices. Even more interesting, Agni's wife, Svaha, is also associated with butter and was said to have put clarified butter on her own skin when she was attempting to woo him.

I probably wouldn't consider Surya; he may have fire associations, but he's generally a little too dignified for dancing and has a sort of all-seeing perception thing going on, which would make it hard for anybody to sneak up on him without him knowing about it. Similarly, while the Yazata have a fire-god of their own, Atar doesn't share any of the traits from the story and spends most of his time setting dragons on fire and being holy. You could make a case for it being an African god far from home - Shango, after all, does breathe fire, is quite dark-skinned and is a sensual and skilled dancer according to his New World myths - but overall I'd say that Agni's the best bet.

Which isn't really surprising; the Yazata and Devas have a very long history together, so much so that some of them are members of both pantheons (there is a wind-god named Vayu among both sets of gods, and the parallels between figures like Mithra and Mitra, Haoma and Soma and Airyaman and Aryaman are just some of the most obvious cases). While the two religions certainly grew apart, they still echo one another strongly, which leads to a lot of fun interplay in the Scion world.