Hey, everyone! Here's a special Valentine's Day-themed vlog, because we are, as always, totally in love with love.
Question: Have you ever had a virgin goddess break her chastity in your games? If so, how did it happen and were there any consequences for the goddess and/or her lover?
Question: Which gods and goddesses do you "ship" as in having a likely romantic relationship that was not particularly seen in their texts?
Question: In honor of Valentine's Day, can you tell us about some of your favorite romantic relationships in the games that you've played/run?
For those who were watching this space eagerly hoping for site updates instead, don't despair - I believe we will have something ready for release next week (although if we fall off a cliff before then, please don't hate me). See you then!
how do people feel about Yoloxochitl?
ReplyDeletebecause spring had a kid with her, if i remember correctly.
DeleteYeah, I believe that the Spring Fae King actually raped (her Band totally just let it happen too) and her child was promptly taken away from her after it was born. So not much romance there.
DeleteYeah. She "volunteered", but that was a horrible encounter for her, and she was severely mentally scarred afterward. She carried his children from the incident, but there was no romance involved. Similarly, she had twins with Thor, but that was a Thor-see Thor-want situation; he never even learned her name, and she didn't waste any time thinking about him after the fact.
DeleteAll Yoloxochitl ever wanted was to be a little girl forever, an ambition she finally achieved at god. Romance was not in her plans and is now firmly in the realm of "grown-up stuff" that she doesn't have to worry about.
i was asking more about how the band felt.
Deletehow her friends reacted, so to speak.
DeleteTo what exactly?
DeleteIf you mean to the incident with the Spring King, they were pretty horrified and tried to help her out as much as possible afterward. Vivian took medical care of her, Aurora took care of making sure her PTSD wasn't triggered, and Woody went to defcon one whenever there were fairies around. Unfortunately, Will got hit with a fairy curse at one point that caused him to spontaneously shapeshift to look like a Spring Court fairy, which caused a lot of severe drama whenever Kettila saw it happen and panicked, but overall they did their best to take care of her.
And Aurora got the Spring King barbecued, so at least he got his just desserts in the end.
so how is she after ragnarok? has anyone talked about a rescue or is she part of a different storyline now?
DeleteWell, her player had to move away, so she won't be coming back as PC any time soon. Major things happened to her during Ragnarok, but those are spoilers; but suffice it to say, she's in a stable place now and Geoff and company have a vested interest in taking care of her. :)
DeleteWhat about Max and Cora back in the day?
ReplyDeleteYou know, I realized just as I was posting this that I forgot about them. And that's a tragedy, because Max and Cora are the only time John and I have ever played a couple who were in love as PCs, and I forgot them on Valentine's Day. I mean, he did, too, but geez.
DeleteI love Max and Cora - in the mortal world, they were typical star-crossed lovers, with Cora marrying into Max's stereotypically racist and classist family and both of them struggling with the results, but once they became Scions things got even more tempestuous. Cora was very beautiful which made other people notice her, Max was wildly jealous which made him likely to go off on a hair trigger, Cora had her own temper which made her likely to trigger right back at him, and thus they had some spectacular lovers' quarrels, often in the middle of important missions.
They died young, but during their run they spent the majority of their time screaming at each other and then having fantastic make-up sex, while their bandmates looked on in confusion at the whole situation. It was awesome.
Wasn't that weirdly incestuous? They weren't necessarily blood related to each other, but there divine parents (Hades and Persephone) were married to each other so....
DeleteGoddammit Anne you beat me to it! Better explanation though.
DeleteYep, which was a problem we were looking forward to dealing with, but sadly the game ended before they interacted with the Theoi enough for that Jerry Springer show to happen. By blood, they're first cousins once removed, but by marriage they're step-siblings, so it was bound to get weird at some point. (Not to mention the probably disaster once Hades realized that Persephone might have been up to stuff during the summer months without telling him.)
DeleteI totally ship AlanxSimon, it started as a joke at how chummy they were but overtime they blossomed into the romance we all wanted to happen! Tragedy!
ReplyDeleteWe'll all carry a torch for Alan and Simon forever - I can't believe I forgot them. Heart forever.
DeleteFor those that didn't know about them during their run in the Gangs game, Alan and Simon were the definition of star-crossed lovers. They were both adults dudes who had until this point in their lives always thought of themselves as totally straight, but upon meeting they discovered that they were totally into one another. Their relationship was never fully realized - there was a mountain of obstacles for them to overcome, including feuding pantheons, Alan's wife back home, and just the general horribleness of life on the lam in the middle of a terrorism scare, and although they saved one anothers' lives several times, eventually Simon died at the climax of the story, with Alan's name on his lips. Poor Alan lingered on being depressed for a little while longer, but he eventually died in a recent game session, going down almost as soon as he returned to New York City, the very place Simon had died months earlier.
DeleteThe players were not planning for them to fall in love, but they sort of wandered into it in a bemused way. All the other players in the game rooted for them, squealed and sang romantic music to egg them on whenever possible.
What a tragedy :( But we need this as fiction... for science!
DeleteHmmm, I never really thought about shipping gods and goddesses before. I guess I technically ship two couples that aren't really couples in myth. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure its never directly stated that Ullr and Skadi are a couple, but I've always seen it that way, and obviously a lot of other people do to. And then I guess I ship Inari and Uke Mochi. Sometimes they're treated as consorts, some even treat them like they're the same figure, but I don't think its stated anywhere that they actually are. But as far as I know, those are the only non-canon ships I have in mythology.
ReplyDeleteYeah, Skadi pretty much just gets paired with Uller because they both do a lot of skiing, so scholars like to guess that maybe they were related, but there's no actual support for them getting together. Still, they'd at least have interests in common!
DeleteI actually really like Inari x Uke Mochi, now that you bring it up. I think a lot of the idea of them being the same is just synthesist confusion - they're both food gods, let's say they're the same! - when they seem to have very distinct mythological character, so I can totally get behind them knowing one another!
John, a question.
ReplyDeleteHypothetical situation. A pair of characters aren't a canon couple for the first three seasons of a show. You 'ship' them.
They get together at the season 3 finale, and remain together for the last two seasons of the show. Your feelings regarding them do not significantly change. The activities and feelings which constituted 'shipping' throughout seasons 1-3 remain the same through seasons 4 and 5. Even though they are the same, would you feel as if they fundamentally no longer constitute 'shipping'?
Good question.
DeleteI would say that you "had" successfully shipped them for 3 years and now you are no longer shipping them. Now they're actually in a relationship. You can love that relationship and be super happy about it and talk about it, but you're no longer shipping them.
I confess, I don't understand the fascination with virgin Goddesses' chastity either. It's a feature of their legend, and that's pretty much it; it doesn't have anything really to do with their powers or abilities, or interaction with their Scions. The only thing I can think of, is it relates to some unfortunate [male] attitude that virginity is a prize to be won, a burden to be ditched, or an obstacle to be overcome, and so it becomes like the old D&D "My buddy wants Thor's hammer, so I'll let him kill Thor and have it" mentality. Somehow, there's a cosmic scorecard that says "I slept with Athena, and now I'm Da' Man". Sorry to say, but it's kind of sad, really.
ReplyDeleteYeah I imagine most of the time you're right, the ultimate prize mentality. Personally i would rather be Artemis' BFF , go on epic adventures and hunts together!
DeleteYep, you're pretty spot-on, PS.
DeleteI agree wholeheartedly with Alexander, above - why not befriend the Goddesses in question, and gain the use of their knowledge, rather than just trying to "score"? Heh - on a side note, are there any Virgin GODS in mythology?
DeleteI think you're being a bit unfair to the player base though. A discussion on whether a Virgin Goddess' virginity is in any way tied to her powers doesn't always have to come from a caveman 'I wanna tap that' mindset. I mean, Shiva is an ascetic God; would it really be inappropriate to discuss whether this aspect of his personality gives him special powers? Would it be inappropriate to assume that Xipe Totec's skin flaying every year is more than just part of his personality and might actually be a ritual of power?
DeleteAnd yes, I know that virginity is not exactly the same as the above examples, but it is still an important theme and situation in world myth and a valid avenue for Scions old and new to express their power and cultic presence through. Trying to find out if Hestia's oath of virginity is some form of non-physical Relic can just as easily be research for something a player wants to do with his/her own character.
As for the second question, I can't think of any virgin Gods in the traditional sense, but Brahma is both happily married to Sarasvati and has explicitly never had sex with her (not for initial lack of trying though). And given how Hinduism is about monogamy amongst its Gods, I think it's safe to say that he is a virgin.
I don't think it's impossible to be interested in the subject for good reasons, Samudra, so I'm glad you mentioned some! But the majority of questions we get on the subject are usually some variation on "how do I hit that" or "why can't my character be the one biological Scion she has because she finally fell in love" or "why are you guys so mean about virgin deities, it's not fair to say that my PC can't seduce them if I want to!" Most of them seem to be, as PS said, approaching the idea of a virgin goddess from a standpoint of "how do I break down that conviction so I can have what I want instead of what she wants," which is pretty depressing, or even the dreaded "she must be broken, I'll fix her so she understands how great penises are".
DeleteBut yes, I think it's totally legit to say that virgin deities might indeed have actual powers or legends attached to their chastity that concretely affect them in Scion's framework. Reaffirmation of virginity might grant them bonuses from their Fatebound cults, or they might have relics that only work while they are virgins or that only boost certain of their powers while they are virgins. There are ancient folkloric stories that suggest this sort of thing, particularly the old European notion that witches must remain virgins or they might lose their power, so it's a great place to investigate cool ways of customizing a character. Also, if there's a major physical reason the god must remain a virgin (for example, some of the Polynesian goddesses have detachable or missing vaginas, although most of them are definitely not interested in being virgin goddesses), that could also qualify as a Maiming-style birthright.
The only other possible virgin god I can think of is the Canaanite Eshmun; when as a mortal (and implied virgin, as he was a priest at the time) he caught Astarte's eye, he ended up castrating himself and dying in order to avoid her amorous intentions. She saved him from the brink of death at the last minute, but since he's now a castrated god and incapable of intercourse (or so we assume - his priests were usually eunuchs, too), he probably gets to permanently retain his virginity, at least as Canaanite myth would define it. (And hey, there's a good example of a Maiming in regards to permanent virginity!)
I don't think there's anything wrong with exploring the virgin goddess concept. Especially not if the discussion is within the context of discussing how it may come up in storytelling.
DeleteYeah, some players just wanna be the guy who "scores" with Athena. Well? That's a valid enough motivation. Yeah, it's sexist and douchey, but a lot of male gods ARE sexist and douchey. The question really is "What may happen if a player were to attempt this thing and actually SUCCEEDED?" There is a lot of story potential in such a concept, so it shouldn't be just disregarded.
Then there's the matter of love entering the equation. Maybe your male character isn't a sexist douche who just wants to "score" a virgin goddess. Maybe he has genuinely and sincerely fallen in love with her and wants her to love him in return. Maybe he courts her fairly, fully respecting her reservations. Maybe he treats her with respect and really TRIES to win her heart, rather than her body. Once again, if he succeeds? What happens? Sooner or later, if he does get this goddess to fall in love with him, sex is likely to occur. What happens at that point? That seems to me a perfectly valid storytelling opportunity.
Also? Another staple of mythologies that contain virgin goddesses is the story of a god or other creature trying to rape them. This is an ugly concept, but it's a very real thing in mythology in general and Scion in specific. The simple truth is that in Scion, there's a war going on. Most Titanspawn are pretty awful creatures. What may happen if some badass Titanspawn manages to defeat Athena on the battlefield and decides to claim her as a prize? That's a story. Exploring it isn't inherently wrong.
I'm not the guy who asked this question, but I can understand the curiosity. I personally started a discussion thread on the Onyx Path Forums not so long ago discussing this very topic. We had a perfectly civilized, mature discussion about the subject.
Yeah, questions like "How do I nail Athena?" Are creepy and not very interesting. But questions like "What kind of stories can be told about a virgin goddess giving up her virginity (or having it taken from her)?" Can be very interesting and thought-provoking.
Of course there's nothing wrong with exploring the idea in games, but as I said above, that's not what the majority of the questions we're getting are about. We haven't posted most of those and probably won't - the one in this vlog and the next post after it are good questions about the idea in games, but they're unfortunately not typical. (Obviously, we thought this question was worthy of being in a Valentine's themed post, which we certainly wouldn't have done if we'd thought it was being creepy!)
DeleteThere is a basic-level issue at work here with the fact that we get a ton of questions about virgin goddesses and sexuality, but almost none about other socio-sexual ideas - nobody asks us about what if a married deity wanted to experiment outside their marriage, for example, or wants to know about the opposite idea of exploring going from being sexually adventurous to chaste. I think there is definitely a base problem with people, at least in modern American society, thinking of virginity as a "confused" or "incomplete" state and therefore having a lot more interest in wanting to find ways to explore or even correct it, which translates to way more questions about it than about more accepted sexual "states" like being married or generally sexually active.
I just have a real problem with the attitude of most of the guys [and it IS guys] who ask this sort of question, though, because they don't generally explore it from a "what are the long-term consequences of a Goddess fundamentally changing something central to her nature", but more "how do I get in her pants?". The former is character-driven, the latter isn't. Yes, rape and assault factor in to mythology - but I really don't know anyone who would want to play that out at the table, and I'd certainly question why if it came up. And there's always this question; why is it so important? Why look at the virgin Goddess and say "what if?" Why not ask, "Could I get Aphrodite to be monogamous?" "Could I get Anat to renounce violence?" It's always about virginity, and giving it up to their PC, and it just comes back to a male conquering mentality, IMHO, because I've never heard a female player ask this sort of question.
DeleteWell, in fairness, there aren't that many female Scion players out there. Plus, there aren't any male virgin gods out there either. If there were, I promise you at least a few female players would consider how to be that guy's first too.
DeleteAs far as the rape thing? The example I gave didn't even suggest the players are the guilty party. Imagine a storyline in which Athena is defeated by a Titanspawn and taken back to his lair. The Theoi dispatch the players to attempt to rescue her. Either the players don't have the best dice roll, or they don't meet the ST's deadline, or maybe the ST just decides that the story is better served by having the players be just a bit late. One way or the other, the Band just can't rescue Athena before she's violated. What stories might spin from THAT?
Not every story needs to involve the active participation of the players. Exploring stories about a virgin goddess losing her virginity to someone OTHER than the players is also a valid line of discussion.
And as far as getting Aphrodite to be monogamous? Funny story. I just posted a question about something very similar a little while ago. I didn't ask about specifically getting Aphrodite to embrace monogamy, but I asked about how hard it is to get God to change his/her nature in general terms. I specifically mentioned Aphrodite more on the grounds of generally getting her to stop being so selfish and shallow and become a better, more compassionate person.
Well, I can only speak for my own experiences and preferences, but what would be enjoyable about a story where Athena [for example] was "violated" by a titanspawn? Why would you want to play that? How would that make for a "good" story? [I ask rhetorically, honestly] This is getting entirely too squicky for my tastes, and way beyond any value as story fodder or a topic of discussion here, IMHO.
DeleteDude. I am a female player. We have other female players. There are lots of female players on this website. We are not 1% of the population, or even 25% of the population of players of this game. There's no "in fairness" about making an arbitrary claim about how many females play the game and then using it to justify a certain game choice. There may not be a lot of ladies playing it in your groups or area, but unless you have some survey data to back this one up as a worldwide phenomena, that generalization's unfounded.
DeletePS is making a valid point that there's definitely a cultural difference in how men and women perceive sex and virginity in our (American/western European) society, and that the obsession with virgin goddess' sexuality is probably primarily a result of this from a male perspective. As before, we've all said repeatedly in this thread that it's fine to explore legitimate and interesting developments involving virgin goddesses in stories; the objection we're all having is to the treatment of said goddesses as conquests or accessories to someone else's story, instead of as people on their own. If you have an awesome and compelling narrative reason to call a virgin goddess' chastity into question, then more power to you, but there's a difference between that and just deciding to mess with it in the story because it's there and therefore it's a challenge that needs answering.
PCs can be (and often are) morally sketchy and do things for bad reasons, too; but there's also a difference between the PC doing that and the ST doing it, and it's important that if it is the ST doing it, they need to have a good concrete reason. We're dealing with a subject that often inherently dehumanizes the goddess in question, so in a lot of cases I would say that an ST does need a good reason to do that. Are you going to really deal with the emotional and physical effects of bringing the rape of a goddess who has been a virgin for millennia into play? Are you going to handle it seriously and sensitively and will it actually matter other than as a spur to give some other people "something to do"? If the answer is yes, then go for it. But if it's no, you might need to question why this, of all the millions of possible ways to spin stories, is the one that you think you need to pursue.
But, at any rate, what we've mostly been talking about is the myriad questions we've been getting about virgin goddesses lately, and I'm here to tell you, they are definitely in the vast majority the gross kind.
Late to the party post!
DeleteJust to note one of my current groups that I play in up here in the Great White North, has two female players to the three males, but last year we were 3 females to two males. (due to people moving we had to switch up the dynamic.)
We are also possibly looking into an additional player now who is also female.
In all my RP groups I have played up here we had 5 guys, and 5 women. So literally a 50/50 split soon possibly to be tipped toward the female side if this new player ends up joining us.
(this is not counting John's games that i've played in which have had 2 women and 4 men.)
Basically what I am saying, is lady-types play Scion a bunch. So....Nope, you're wrong.
I'm the guy who asked the Hermes/Hecate question. And I do happen to ship them. I also ship Xochiquetzal and Tlazolteotl after that post you did ages ago about lesbian relationships in myth. (BTW, Hermes' page still has a rival's section).
ReplyDeleteI'm intrigued by the Xochiquetzal and Tlazolteotl couple. I can pretty much see the rest of the Teotl freaking out over it but unable to really do much about it, hah.
DeleteDid it happen in some way in your game or is it a status quo kind of thing?
Neither, actually. I've never got a Scion game beyond character creation.
DeleteI do however have a list of headcanons in my mind for various small things in my Scion universe, and this is one of them.
The X/T idea came from a passing line in one of Anne's blog posts regarding lesbianism in myths, as an example of the kind of relationships that STs might come up with, and I fell in love with the idea that Tlazolteotl is such a hardass simply because it's her way of pretending these feelings she has don't exist. Plus a reaction to seeing her beloved used as a pawn by Tezcat and Tlaloc in their rivalry. This is complete armchair psychology. You can read the original post here: http://johnsscionresources.blogspot.in/2013/09/lamour-des-femmes.html
Incidentally, not that it's entirely relevant to the discussion, but I ship all my characters (as in the ones I create in my head for the heck of it when I have nothing better to do) with either Radegast or Surya, mostly because they have the hottest pics on this site (both being Fire Gods probably helps ;))
I gotta tell you, the more you mention it, the more I secretly ship Tlazolteotl x Xochiquetzal, too. Even if it's one-sided, the idea of Tlazolteotl's violent obsession with sexual purity is so compelling and tragic if it's underlaid by the idea that her culture's values tell her that the one love in her life is wrong and unnatural, and that all these other horrible shenanigans the men around her get up to are somehow permissible when her own secret passion isn't. Tears.
DeleteTotally - I meant that I condemn the "how do I get her in to bed?" type of curiousity, not the actual reasons [sociological/mythic/otherwise] for the Goddesses virginity, or how it factors in to a game.
DeleteAnd I replied to the wrong thread...Sheesh!
DeleteAs for established couples, I'm probably a bit prejudiced towards them, but I adore the relationships between the Trimurti and Tridevi, albeit for different reasons each.
ReplyDeleteBrahma and Sarasvati is one of the very few stories I know that feature a guy being an idiot about a girl, and then actually making amends and sticking to them. Their relationship got off on the wrong foot (a thousand wrong feet, in fact, since that's how many forms she took to escape him), but has since evolved into a very stable, loving marriage by all accounts. Plus, they are probably the best creative duo around, since according to some myths, Sarasvati personally designs that which Brahma creates.
Lakshmi and Vishnu...I find this pairing a little complicated (which puts me in the tiny minority of Hindus, most of whom are in love with this couple). Lakshmi and Vishnu have an amazing ability to work through anything, despite having numerous fights. They strike me as the Homer and Marge of the Gods. Whether that's cute, or just plain scary, is upto you.
Shiva-Parvati, on the other hand, really are the most loving couple in Hinduism. They're love story spans lifetimes, and despite initial hiccups, and Shiva's general tendency of being batshit insane, they have one of the most beautiful families in mythology.
I figured you'd come talk about these guys. :) I also have a few problems with Vishnu and Lakshmi - not that they don't love one another, but there are definitely moments where I wish Vishnu would take a page from Brahma's book and avoid being a jerk to his wife - but overall, they're all three very sweet relationships.
DeleteAnd yeah, Shiva x Parvati-in-whatever-form is pretty much always great.
And finally for your games, am I the only one who finds the love story between Mohini and Suresha Kaur bittersweet but fascinating? Another case of societal mores getting in the way of love. Sigh.
ReplyDeleteIncidentally, where did you find that new picture of Mohini? It is...enchanting (pardon the pun). It really does look the mythic Mohini, the female Avatara of Vishnu.
I'm so glad you do! Mohini genuinely does love Suresha, and he obviously loves her, but they both know that things are what they are. She's never going to leave the temple, and he's never going to leave his family. And the tragedy of losing the baby, even if he never knew it wasn't his, affected them both as well.
DeleteHonestly, while I love Mohini going on adventures and doing awesome Scion stuff out in the world, I'm always a little sad that she's so far from home. She loves the temple and misses being there, and I'm sure Suresha misses her.
Mohini's current picture is by a US artist named Sam, and although it was not labeled as any particular Hindu figure, it said Mohini to me right away. Also, you may be pleased to know that Mohini's Body Armor manifests as a blue hue to her skin, so while she isn't powerful enough to have multiple arms yet, she is certainly bearing more than a passing resemblance to that other Mohini who came before her. :)
I think I'm a little in love with Mohini myself. And most of that is thanks to you. You have not only created an amazing character, but you've given her such a tender yet strong voice through your writing that I cannot help but adore her.
DeleteAnd thank you for the research. The way you capture the feel of the Temple of Unao would make Surya smile. The way you describe the lives of the Devadasis, and their reactions to that life, from Aruna's calm acceptance to Swheta's smouldering unhappiness...it is perfect.
But most of all. the way you describe the dances of my people, the way you make BharataNatyam feel so distinct from Kathak (which it is), the passing nod to the grace of Manipuri...thank you for so honestly capturing the good and bad of my people and my culture. You are a storyteller par excellence :)
I am so glad to hear you say that - you have no idea. I did a lot of research for Mohini and her story, but it's another world to me, and it's wonderful to hear that you loved it so much. It really means a lot to me, so thank you so much for telling me and for being so kind. :)
DeleteOh, character relationships, you are such a mixed bag of... things! I'll ask this, though I'm pretty sure it's not the case since your players are the best, but have you guys ever dealt with a situation where things got... a little out of hand?
ReplyDeleteThis is me speaking from personal experience and not trying to make generalizations, but I think there needs to be a certain group dynamic for them to even be a thing.
I've been part of some gaming groups where they happen and everyone has fun watching them grow, groups where they are completely absent and they never even come up... and the worst, groups where the two people involved are the only ones into it and everyone else feels awkward about it.
My "main" group, where I play a highly promiscuous Scion of Odin, falls mostly into the second category, though one short-lived relationship did materialize briefly between my character and a son of Quetzalcoatl, but most of it was dealt with by talking about it out of character. Alas, it ended badly when my character bedded a giantess and went on to become an unlikely father.
My secondary group, which plays mostly short stories and rotates characters often, falls more into the first category and has seen many unlikely couples surface, one notorious example being a son of the Monkey King who managed to court and sleep with one daughter of Amaterasu, who was sworn in marriage to a son of Ryujin (my character). This epic tale didn't end well at all either, but shenanigans and epic Wuxia-murai duels were had, and everyone enjoyed it.
Finally, one of the two groups I ST for briefly fell into the third category. We had two players who always attempted to hijack every other scene to make insufferably long, two-sided interactions about their torrid romance. It got to a point where the game wasn't moving anywhere and the other players were frustrated and not having fun, so I ended up having to have "the talk" with them.
So in general, I tend to be very careful in the way I represent or deal with character relationships, though it's really mostly due to personal reservations.
Also, TIL "shipping" means other things besides delivering stuff. Awesome!
Hmm. Well, we've never had a relationship that monopolized the whole game, but we have noticed that sometimes people who are doing an in-game relationship do need to talk to one another more often in the course of their roleplay, and that that can slow things down. Since we play in person, we generally solve that by moving those people to sit next to one another, so that if they're having a personal conversation, they can do so while the rest of the group gets on with things. In an online game format, you might try getting them to have those kinds of asides in private chats, so they can just say, "Billy and Kate are embroiled in a passionate argument" and the rest of the group can do other things while they do that instead of waiting it out.
DeleteIf there are actual actions going on that have to be dealt with, well, those probably do need to be in the game as a whole, but I'd tell other characters who are getting tired of it to remember that they can interrupt IC. No one would be surprised if, after a week of arguing over an infidelity and refusing to focus up on the mission, another character slapped both of them and told them to get their shit together.
Several things:
ReplyDelete1) I agree that all of the "virgin goddesses having sex" questions are starting to get creepy. It really seems like it's someone's current fixation, so whoever you are: just stop.
2) Like John, I think "shipping" refers only to slapping together non-canonical pairs.
3) There should probably have been a mention of the *true* star couple in Eastern Promises: Alvin and Haji.
Haji loves his boss. So, so much.
DeleteThomas wins the internet
DeleteHe wins the internet squared.
DeleteSource on the Tezcatlipoca-possums myth?
ReplyDeleteI want to say I ran across that one in the Olivier book, Mockeries and Metamorphoses, but I can't check for sure since that's one I have to thieve from the library instead of owning. (I should totally own it, though.) I'm pretty sure it's not in the Chimalpopoca, which is the only other source I think it might have been, but I can't confirm since Olivier's book doesn't have any excerpts online.
DeleteMy recollection of the myth is that it was a fragment from a larger narrative, in which Tezcatlipoca imprisons two of Quetzalcoatl's daughters in cages as a joke, and then causes them both to be impregnated with opossums. Given Olivier's syncretic bent, I'm wondering if it might be a story from a less prominent god that he considers an aspect of Tezcat (although it certainly sounds like something he'd do).
Don't remember that in the Chimalpopoca, and haven't been able to get my hands on Olivier. I'll have to interlibrary loan that ASAP
DeleteIt's definitely a great read. It's a little bit more heavy on the syncretism than I usually like - Olivier is very fond of assuming that basically all trickster-figures in Aztec myth could be considered aspects of Tezcatlipoca, and sometimes he stretches a little too far for me - but it's super thorough and has a lot of good sourcing.
Delete