Tuesday, February 18, 2014

Heart of Flame

Question: I really like the Inue supplement, so thanks again for all your work on that. The first PSP boon replaces Conviction with an "elemental" Virtue, which compels the Scion to promote and protect the "principle" of the selected element, leaving him or her with "Fire Virtue" or "Moon Virtue." Could you explain what this means, exactly? Would someone with "Fire Virtue" become a pyromaniac who prevents firefighters from doing their job and who starts forest fires just because? And how would Stars work?

Question: Hi! I finished the Inue and read about their purview, which is really interesting. The problem is, I do not know how you can act out a Virtue that responds to an element. Is it still possible to roleplay it - for example, Fire = being passionate and expressive?


We talked about this a little bit in the comments when the Inue were first released, but since it's a new kind of thing, we thought a post about it might be helpful for everyone. And since we've talked in depth about what the normal set of Virtues do, it seems only fair to address these.

In answer to the second question, no, the purview Virtues from Inue cannot be "interpreted" or "stunted" into abstract concepts. Having the Fire Virtue means that you are all about protecting and promoting fire, as in the element, not theoretical ideas that are poetically associated with fire. Being passionate and expressive is the Expression Virtue; there would be no need to create a second Virtue that does the same thing.

Instead, these Virtues are specifically geared toward the preservation, support, encouragement and natural domination of the elements or heavenly bodies they are tied to. You are compelled to act in the best interests of your chosen purview's concept at all times, meaning that you want it to flourish and act the way it wants to, and that you are opposed to people who want to thwart, pollute or mismanage it. If it helps, you could think of them as a little bit like having Conviction that applies only to that specific thing - you have Conviction that urges you to always take action to protect Water, or Conviction that specifically only wants you to support the Sun.

Since we know they can be a little hard to conceptualize, especially for the purviews related to heavenly bodies which are less straightforward than the elemental ones, here's a Virtue-by-Virtue breakdown of guidelines for how to handle each one.

  • Animal. A Scion with the Animal Virtue has an innate drive to protect, care for and crusade for animals in everything she does, specifically her chosen totem animal. She wants to encourage the natural safety and spread of the animal and therefore wants it to be free of hunting or harvesting by humans and wants its habitat to be safeguarded and spread, usually beyond what it has now - she cares more about these animals having safe and optimal lives than humans, in many cases. She can and will want to stop people from hurting or killing the animals, even if humans need to do so to survive (such as needing the animals for meat or needing to kill them to prevent them from attacking them), which can often be difficult in wilderness areas where humanity and animals are in direct conflict. Scions with the Animal Virtue may trigger a Virtue Extremity if they hurt, confine or upset an animal (or allow others to do so, such as allowing someone to kill an animal for food or allowing an animal to be kept in a zoo that treats it poorly), attempt or allow destruction of their natural habitat or needs in a way that will cause them difficulty or danger in the future, or participate in any action that forces animals to become subservient or unhappy thanks to outside dangers.
  • Darkness. A Scion with the Darkness Virtue is aligned with the forces of night and shadow, opposed to illumination and invested in the darkness as an important part of the natural world. He wants to keep places and creatures in the dark, especially those that naturally live in shadow, and needs to blot out bright lights and provide safely dark areas whenever he can, and he is especially the champion of creatures, people or activities that are more common in the dark or require shadow to survive. And, of course, he can't help but want to have and use as many Darkness boons as possible. Scions with the Darkness Virtue may trigger a Virtue Extremity if they try to provide or allow any kind of light in a previously dark place, escape the darkness instead of conducting business and pleasure within it when possible, or in any way participate in the institution of light where things should naturally be dark.
  • Earth. A Scion with the Earth Virtue is the champion of soil, stone and all other natural bones of the earth. She is inclined toward dedication to the earth's maintenance and well-being, and wants to ensure that the soil isn't disturbed unnecessarily, that it is treated properly by farmers and casual travelers alike, and that it remains unspoiled and capable of whatever life-bearing or chemical properties it is meant to have. Scions with the Earth Virtue may trigger a Virtue Extremity if they do not prevent pollution or massive destruction or upheaval of the earth by unnatural means, if they do not educate others on the proper use and care of the earth they administer, or if they allow or participate in the abuse of earthen resources in strip mines, chemical dumps or similar operations.
  • Fertility. A Scion with the Fertility Virtue protects and nurtures plant life in all its forms, wherever and whenever he encounters it. He is the guardian of the natural cycles of vegetable life, and is motivated to make sure that plants are respected by humanity, that natural preserves remain lush and indisturbed, that plant resources are used responsibly and that the ecosystem of the local flora remains balanced and thriving. Scions with the Fertility Virtue may trigger a Virtue Extremity if they allow destruction of healthy plants, fail to correct imbalances in plant life in a given environment, or ever prioritize human needs (such as food or clothing) above the needs of the natural world of green and growing things. To the Scion with this Virtue, a mighty tree being allowed to live out its life in peace is more important than a human family being able to survive the cold night by cutting it up for firewood.
  • Fire. A Scion with the Fire Virtue prioritizes flame over all other natural elements, and seeks to allow its spread and prevent its smothering wherever possible. As such, it is one of the most dangerous Virtues in terms of accidentally endangering others. People with the Fire Virtue want to have and use Fire boons, to set fires in receptive areas (for constructive purposes, such as clearing brush or hurting enemies, as often as destructive ones), to prevent fires from being put out or restricted and to encourage the use of fire for whatever uses it might be applied to, including warmth, cooking, cauterization or anything else that humanity might use it for. They often suffer from temptation to set fires even when doing so might be detrimental to the local environment, especially if confronted with very flammable material or easy access to do so. Scions with the Fire Virtue may trigger a Virtue Extremity if they try to put out fires, prevent the spread of fires, discourage others from setting or feeding fires, or otherwise inhibit the element's natural action.
  • Frost. A Scion with the Frost Virtue is allied with the forces of cold, winter and the frozen elements of ice and snow, and must act accordingly. She wants to encourage creatures to survive - or not - in frozen locations in such a way that they do not alter the cold environment itself, believes in the helpful properties of freezing for purposes of preservation and renewal, and always tries to uphold the cold as an important part of the natural order rather than giving in to the human desire for warmth. A Scion with the Frost Virtue may trigger a Virtue Extremity if she allows or creates any kind of heat that significantly raises the temperature of a cold location, fails to campaign against things that threaten frozen natural areas (such as global warming or thermal mining), or allows the melting of ice or snow for any purpose.
  • Moon. A Scion with the Moon Virtue loves the silver disc of the night skies and does everything in his power to respect it and make it continuingly relevant and important to life on earth. He tends to want to be able to see the moon whenever it is out, making it difficult for him to stay inside at night (or even during the day, if it's out), and wants to encourage others to study, venerate and respect it as the important celestial body it is. Scions with the Moon Virtue may trigger a Virtue Extremity if they encourage or allow airborn pollution that obscures the moon, allow others to remain disrespectful or ignorant about it, allow space technology that might damage or deface it or inhibit technology dedicated to studying and celebrating it. This extends also to artistic representations of the moon, or literature related to understanding and promoting the moon, both of which the Scion is motivated to encourage and protect. Like the other celestial purviews, the Virtue tied to Moon is a little more difficult to adjudicate for Storytellers, so if something comes up that isn't covered here, use your best judgment as to what constitutes the Scion promoting or protecting the moon in some way.
  • Sky. A Scion with the Sky Virtue is the champion of air, sky and wind, a lover of natural storms and calm skies alike, and she campaigns to make sure that they remain safe and pollution-free and that their natural phenomena and inhabitants go unmolested. She tolerates human intrusion into the lofty heavens only when it brings with it no danger or damage to the environment, and is happiest in wide open spaces where she can feel the wind on her face. Scions with the Sky Virtue may trigger a Virtue Extremity if they allow any kind of air pollution, acid rain or other related environmental poisoning, tolerate human inventions that invade airspace with detrimental consequences (jet fuel pollution or engines that destroy airborne wildlife), or prevent the natural consequences of storms from affecting the landscape.
  • Stars. A Scion with the Stars Virtue wants to promote and dedicate his time to the celestial sphere, specifically the stars and satellites that twinkle in the night skies. He not only wants to ensure that he (and everyone else, when possible) has an unobstructed view of the stars, but also that everyone learns about and respects them, seeks to promote them in art and culture, and appreciates their natural beauty. A Scion with the Stars Virtue may trigger a Virtue Extremity if they allow pollution or too many structures that obscure the stars, perpetuate or fail to correct ignorance or disrespect of them, or do not protect or appreciate artwork and study regarding the stars when given the opportunity.
  • Sun. A Scion with the Sun Virtue is dedicated to the respect and preservation of the sun, that awesome power that lights the world and warms it from afar, and she will go to great lengths to make sure it is appreciated and protected. She is a proponent of mankind harnessing the power of the sun safely to better the world (i.e., through solar power or related technologies) and wants light to be freely and constantly available to everyone all over the world; and likewise, she is opposed to darkness and wants to illuminate it whenever possible. Scions with the Sun Virtue may trigger a Virtue Extremity if they allow obscurement of the sun's light, tolerate misinformation or destruction regarding the sun or artwork related to it, or destroy any kind of benign sun-related technology.
  • Water. A Scion with the Water Virtue is dedicated to the protection of water and marine ecosystems wherever they occur, and to responsible and safe use of them. She doesn't mind humanity using water to drink or cook with in moderate amounts, but she is concerned with making sure that the world's water resources remain clean and that their natural paths and behavior are not diverted. A Scion with the Water Virtue may trigger a Virtue Extremity if she allows or contributes to water pollution, attempts to dry up or divert the natural flow of water, or ever puts the wellbeing of other elements, creatures or natural features above that of oceans, rivers, lakes or other water sources.

We like to think of it a little bit like considering what the Virtue would want if it were a living being - Fire wants to burn, Darkness wants to shroud things in shadow, Stars want to shine and look down on the world below, and so forth. These are not comprehensive; there may be situations that aren't covered here, and your Storyteller will, as always, be the final arbiter of what does and does not fall within a Virtue's scope.

Hopefully that helps out all you would-be Inue Scions out there. The Virtues granted by the Shua purview prioritize the needs, spread and importance of their chosen purview's elements above all other concerns, so just like a Scion with Order cares more about the law than about any reason given for breaking it, no matter how good, a Scion with Fire cares more about flame burning and acting as it naturally does than about anything or -one who might be hurt by its rampage.

32 comments:

  1. The celestial ones kinda confused me, so I'm glad they're clarified. The fire virtue looks like it'd cause a lot of rampant destruction... Me wants.

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    1. Yeah, they're definitely a little harder to pin down than the elemental ones. Happy to help. :)

      All the elements have the potential for a lot of rampant destruction!

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  2. Sky looks like a pain for hero groups.... most of these do actually.
    Better have enough Willpower to supress them when needed.
    I mean seriously, not being able to travel by plane can really hamper hero-level adventures.

    Don't get me wrong, I like Shua and I have an Inue Scion ready to be launched at a moments notice, but I really really think that at least at hero-levels this will be a pain.

    Also: How does one fight against the titanspawn and the like that share your association? Do the works of titans fall under *unnatural* spread of the elements.

    Because if you choose to take, lets say, FROST... that should complicate matters?

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    1. You're absolutely right, it will be a pain. But it will not necessarily be more of a pain than any other Virtue; it's simply a different pain. All Virtues make you deal with or do things you probably don't want to, and can be massive obstacles when their needs conflict with what you want to do; the Shua Virtues are the same, with their specific focus being on the natural world. That's what the Inue are all about; the natural world and its powerful forces, which always trump humanity and civilization.

      Also, while being Heroes means you're in civilization and therefore these Virtues are a lot more of a pain to have, it also means that you're low-Legend and not in nearly as much danger of extremitying as Demigods and Gods, so you'll be able to spend to resist the Virtue more often.

      I'm actually of two minds about titanspawn, so I think individual Storytellers will need to answer that one (after all, they're the arbiters, at the end of the day, of what does and does not trigger a Virtue). Under one interpretation, you could say that you're only going to have to roll against your Frost Virtue if they're actively supporting Frost and you'd be stopping them. If titanspawn are doing something your Shua Virtue supports - for example, some minions of Niflheim are deepfreezing an area until everything that lives in it dies - then you may need to roll against them to stop them from doing that, but if they're not doing anything particularly frost-supportive at the time and are just traveling through an area or attempting to attack you, you can smite them with impunity.

      But, it would also be a valid take to say that since titanspawn from that realm are basically physical embodiments of the element you support, it is very difficulty for you to act against them even if they're being douchebags, because doing so would be directly acting against your Shua Virtue. In that case, you would probably need to roll your Frost Virtue to fight any titanspawn from Ukiuq, making various Scions among the Inue better suited for opposing certain Titans than others. Remember that you also have Harmony, and Harmony hates titanspawn, especially if they're in the World, so when confronted with titanspawn that are specifically from the Titanrealm that supports the same element as your Virtue, you may end up having to decide which Virtue to follow and rolling off against the other.

      Personally, I would lean toward the second interpretation; Virtues are inconvenient and dangerous sometimes, and that applies to the Shua Virtues just like the others. Just as some Scions might have to roll against their Loyalty to oppose a Titan Avatar that is also a family member or others might have to roll against their Vengeance in order to stop titanspawn from marauding against people they don't like, Inue Scions may sometimes have to grit their teeth and put their heads down to fight against titan creatures that play in the same pool as themselves.

      There could definitely be exceptions, though, thanks to the general nasty nature of Titans. If you have the Water Virtue and a Drowned Road titanspawn is "improving" the local water by making it poisonous to air-breathing creatures, that's still not cool and you can go kick his ass for it.

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  3. Can you take aspects of an element, or are you strictly forced to take the entire element?

    For example can someone take Earth with a focus on the Egyptian deserts and ever shifting sand without campaigning for dirt or bedrock? How about someone who takes Earth with a focus on metal and digging it up out of the ground to put it to industrious uses (in combination with Artistry)?

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    1. You can certainly have a preference for a particular aspect of an element and roleplay that, but the Virtue applies to the whole shebang. Even if you have the Earth Virtue because you want to be all about protecting the mighty mountains, you will still be motivated to take care of and prevent damage to deserts, mud and other forms of the element. It would be the same as other Virtues; Order, for example, applies to all laws, and you don't get to say "well I'm specifically about murder cases, I don't have to care about theft".

      Artistry and using metal for various purposes aren't necessarily opposed to the Earth Virtue, so that's good news. :) As long as you are careful and safe with your mining - nothing that causes permanent damage or structural instability to the area, nothing that pollutes or ruins the soil - you can still use natural elements in your crafting!

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  4. What does the Moon Virtue have to say about madness? Or is Shua only concerned with the material aspects of the elemental Purviews?

    What would the Water Purviews reaction be to desalination? It's not exactly polluting water, but it is changing the natural state of it.

    On a related note, what would Tlam-Shua for the celestial Purviews be like? Are they actually inhabiting the celestial object itself? Can I use Tlam-Shua Sun to inhabit every street light in the city? Related to the earlier query, can I use Tlam-Shua Moon to inhabit the minds and bodies of every inhabitant of an insane asylum?

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    1. Because the Inue are specifically about the elements and concepts of the natural world, the celestial purviews are specifically about the actual natural phenomena. Related concepts, such as the moon being associatd with madness or water being associated with human fertility, are not represented in it (although I'm sure there might be a special case out there somewhere that would make me make an exception).

      I would say desalination in small is okay; the resulting water isn't polluted or damaged, and can go on doing normal water stuff. However, desalination on a large or careless scale - for example, desalinating an entire saltwater lake, thus playing havoc with the marine ecosystem in it - would definitely be a unacceptable.

      Tlam-Shua's actually pretty neat for the celestials, but you're right, it wasn't well-explained. You wouldn't be able to inhabit all the streetlights - your Shua is about the sun, not just light in general - but when you're inhabiting the sun, you are present in the glowing disk in the sky and have presence everywhere that sunlight touches, and your inhabitation of it makes that light stronger, warmer and more resistant to people trying to blot it out. I would say that since the celestial lights are so much a subject of human art and culture as well that you might be able to "inhabit" artwork or images of it in your area. (Or is that too much? What do you guys think?)

      We're using the mythological concept of the sun as perceived by traditional Inuit folklore, so you're not going to be actually inhabiting the sun out in space or anything, but daylight - all of it - is still your realm. (And if it happens to be the part of the year when daylight is near constant up near the arctic circle, that's pretty darn powerful.)

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  5. Wow - can't imagine having most of these in cities.

    Stars : Tear down all street lamps, power lines and power plants to prevent light pollution, probably tear down all tall buildings, too.

    Sky : 9/11 the hell out of everything.

    Water : Destroy all motor boats, ships, ports, presumably also all fossil fuel stuff for acid rain... basically kill all cities on the water.

    Most. Terrorist. Virtue. Ever.

    Huge fan.

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    1. It's not a coincidence that one of our sample characters is a Greenpeace activist bordering on environmental terrorism. The Inue are concerned with the natural world, which means that sometimes civilization looks like so much collateral damage when it comes to taking care of it.

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  6. Eheheh.

    Boy, using Heart of Darkness on an Inue Scion would be fun...

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  7. How does the Fertility Virtue interact with genetically engineered plants?

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    1. What happens if a Scion with a Frost Purview, for example, through bad luck, and Fatebonds, loses all Frost Boons he might have invested in, and instead becomes invested in Fire?

      Talk about split personality in a God...

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    2. That shouldn't actually matter, should it? Having the Frost Virtue doesn't necessitate having the Frost Purview. And he could have the Devourer and it wouldn't matter so long as he didn't USE Fire boons. After all, the Order Virtue doesn't punish you for being in a situation where you can commit a crime, it only acts up if you utilize the situation.

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    3. True enough, but most players would likely choose as their "nature" Purview, one that they might plan to invest in.
      And other Scions who had positive Fatebonds to Fire would have no problem utilizing those boons. It can potentially create a frustrated player. Not every time, but it has that potential.

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    4. I meant to say "nature" Virtue

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    5. If its something you really care about, the ONE thing you really care about, you dont let your fatebonds buy it off.

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    6. Fertility is probably okay with genetically engineered plants themselves, but would have a problem with the process if it was destructive in some way. As long as the genetically engineered plants aren't destroying all the other plants in the area or something, you should be fine.

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    7. John, not meaning to be argumentative, but in an earlier Vlog, you guys talked about your own players sometimes failing in maintaining things they care about, simply because there are other things at risk as well due to Fatebonds. It would be a very lucky player to only have one negative Fatebond to something he really cares about. is it something that is likely to happen? no. But there might be times when the player gets "stuck" in such a situation, and saying, "you should have seen it coming" is not a good way to deal with it.
      Are you trying to say that none of your players has ever got to a point where they said "You know what? I've got so much on my plate right now, I'm gonna just give up on fighting this battle?"
      Maybe it's a different discussion.

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    8. I think you misunderstood me. That exact situation is one Im referencing. Say for example, fatebonds are buying off, manipulation, marksmanship, and frost. All three things are important to your character and your in a catch 33 if you will. You're definitely gonna lose something. Most scions have a choice here. They can fight the xp drain however they want, but eventually something will give, but they'll get to save the other 2 or 1 thing.

      What Im saying is that for the inuit scion, he probably doesnt get that choice. If he starts losing frost in addition to other stuff. Hell be damned, he needs to save frost.

      Players get to that point all the time. They get tired of fighting it and they give up on things, and thats totally cool. What Im saying is the inuit doesnt have that option really. Or rather he does, but he gets to know that if he chooses to let his frost go, hes also letting his psp go and his virtue is gonna be pissed.

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    9. Ok, now I understand what you're saying. He has less of a choice than others in what to fight to save.
      Does this mean that he might roll for Virtue Extermity if he lets a negative Fatebond take a Frost Boon?

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    10. O yeah. But I also make expression scions roll if they lose arts or intellect roll when they lose stats that make them dumber/know less.

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    11. So, just to clarify: Shua as a PSP does NOT function like Arete or Me with regard to Fatebonds?

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    12. Correct. Fatebonds will neither buy nor unbuy Shua.

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  8. Interesting coincidence, I typically play zoologist Scions, often with Conviction (one Aztec, one Norse who switched out Expression), and one of the biggest convictions they tend to have is to protecting animals and increasing their populations, and destroying threats to them and their habitat. And they'd often do so while ignoring the consequences to humans, dismissing those as unimportant.

    So, basically, I play them as having a watered-down version of your Animal Virtue.

    Other convictions exist, Alan's jungle-god-ness made him a Fertility-Virtue candidate as well (Erik Ullerson isn't quite so Frost-happy). And of course, their actions and their pantheons give them more convictions tailored to those interests, like Alan's need to water his trees with human blood.

    Thinking of the Shua Virtue as a myopic version of Conviction is a good way of thinking. And it's decent, because while the Shua Virtue has fewer situations you could channel it properly, you'll probably have to roll it far less often and subsequently risk fewer Extremities.

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    1. "Far less often"? I am not sure if that is the case. All kinds of plumbing is anthema to the natural flow of water, for starters. Are sunglasses/shades against the sun virtue? The subway will probably prompt the darkness-virtue to kill the lights, since in tunnels beneath the earth there is supposed to be darkness. Das light pollution of large cities trigger Star-scions?


      Yeaaaah, I think this will win the prize for most annoying virtue in civilization EVER, right there with Order and Valor.

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    2. Which is the point...it's the most annoying Virtue in CIVILIZATION. The Inue don't care about civilization. There PSP, likewise, does not care about civilization. Complaining about that is akin to complaining about Asha requiring truthfulness.

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  9. It's interesting you bring that up, because someone with Conviction can just choose to play it as an elemental virtue if they really wanted to (for some reason). Everything Fire does can be emulated by player who wanted Conviction (Fire).

    And I think that is intentional.

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    1. At the same time, someone with Conviction can just pick that is Conviction is spreading Forest Fires, and not Fire in general, which makes it a small subset of the Fire Virtue. Which might be ok for other Scions, depending on ST, but not for an Inue Scion with the Fire Virtue, or like someone above emntioned, care only about deserts, while the Earth Virtue Inue cares about all Earth.

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  10. Something I was wondering. When a God avatars down, his powers recede as well, right? So, does avataring own have any effect on Virtues? I mean, going up in Legend gives free Virtue dots, right? Wouldn't it make sense for these Virtue dots to recede since they are tied to his ichor, which is temporarily watered down?

    This is mostly because, while I like the idea that the Inue cannot go into a city without hitting Extremity, it feels like they should at least have this one way out if they want to have anything to do in cities (having Scions for eg.).

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    1. Being lower Legend automatically makes resisting Virtues easier. Gods roll double their Virtue rating in dice whereas lower-Legend beings only roll their dots, so dropping below Legend 8 will always make it easier for a god to resist their Virtues.

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