Trouble at Home

Question: My friend uses your Darkness boons in our game. He just used his Heart of Darkness boon on Hera (he is a son of Zeus). Is he fucked?

Well, that depends.

First of all: which Virtues did the boon affect, and is she still under its effects right now? If he successfully turned her Vengeance into Forgiveness, she will not only not be upset with him for existing right now, but will probably actively seek to accept, forgive and welcome him into her family. The reversed Virtue will make her feel an overwhelming need to turn the other cheek when it comes to her husband's offenses against their marriage, and to accept his illegitimate offspring even though doing so flies in the face of both her own emotions and the laws of the pantheon.

While that's going on, he's safe - at least, from Hera herself. He is still an example of total not-okayness according to Greek law, so while no one will probably outright call him on it since they wouldn't want to risk going up against Zeus (and lots of them are in the same boat anyway, being illegitimate children themselves), people are still probably going to give him a bit of the side-eye. People like Apollo, Artemis, Dionysus, Persephone and Hermes are all Zeus' offspring by women other than his wife, and all of them have had to suffer her vengeance as a result, so many of them might be outright offended that your friend is "cheating" by bypassing that. They all had to pay their dues and have to live in constant awareness of Hera's bad mood, so they may not appreciate some uppity little former human child getting special treatment that they didn't. (A few of them might be okay with it for the moment just because Hera would also be willing to forgive and welcome them abnormally right now, too... but they probably know better than to think that's permanent.)

Secondly: does Hera know he did that? Did he straight up use a boon on her while standing in front of her when she was going to smite him, or something? Is there any chance she could think someone else might have done it? Because when she snaps out of it, not only is her Vengeance going to shoot back like the most painful, terrifying rubber band ever to be shot at your Scion's forehead, she's also going to be on the warpath for whomever dared screw around with her emotions that way. Hera is not stupid, and even if she didn't know the power was used at the moment it was, there's no way she'll think that she randomly had a change of heart for no reason when she hasn't had one in the past three millennia, that just happened to make her behave in a way that is counter to not just her own feelings but her entire existence as goddess of legitimate marriage. She will know someone used magic on her to force her to act in a way she will find abhorrent, and she's going to want someone's head for it. Like... she will have double Vengeance against him now.

Your friend's best bet at surviving (and/or not being consigned to misery forever because of unending curses/madness/murder of everyone he loves) Hera's likely backlash is to try to pin the crime on someone else. If she thinks somebody else did it - Hermes, say, who she never liked much anyway - he might escape the mightiest part of her wrath if it gets pointed at the messenger god instead. Of course, that won't protect him from her violent backlash if he's stupid enough to be in her presence when Heart of Darkness wears off, nor will it prevent him from being in trouble if she does blame Hermes and Hermes gets on the hatetrain to find out who just ruined his day, but it might give him a chance to prudently hide himself while the fallout dusts the lovely fields of Olympus.

The good news is that Hera also has Valor, and a hefty respect for her cranky husband, so she probably won't outright kill your friend. (Unless he is dumb enough to be like lying there letting her feed him grapes when she comes out of it or something, in which case he might be toast before she even thinks about it.) But she will destroy his tools and friends, kill people he loves, cause horrible misfortunes to follow him everywhere he goes, and generally make him wish he was dead in order to punish him for his deeds. He's already a Scion of Zeus, so some of that might have been in store for him anyway; maybe he thinks it was worth it for the couple of days of relief, since she hated him anyway, or maybe he'll discover that it somehow got way worse than he ever imagined. A lot of that is up to your Storyteller, and we can't predict what they might decide to do.

He could, I suppose, try to keep using it on her all the time so she never snaps out of it. But that's super hella dangerous and unlikely, since he would have to be near her every time it was time to refresh it, keep beating her probably very rad resistance roll every time, and hope that none of the other gods realized what he was up to and took issue with it (Ares, for example, is probably going to come at him with a dose of his own Vengeance if he realizes that this guy is mind-whammying his mom and setting himself up to be a member of the family the way only legitimate children like himself are supposed to be). And Hera having a ton of anti-Theoi Virtues is just going to cause general problems anyway; if your friend is changing all of them, there will be inevitable conflicts with the other gods when her Sadism Virtue starts causing massive problems for her pantheon full of Valor, or her Censorship clashes with their Expression in an ugly way.

And finally, when I posed this problem to John, his immediate response was, "Oh, shit. Zeus is going to kick that guy's ass." It might seem at first blush that Zeus would not care about this, because Hera being pissed off about his affairs is probably something he doesn't love dealing with, but honestly, this is way not worth it for him. Not only is it going to cause disharmony and fights within his already very temperamental and fractious family, but he's going to have to deal with a wife who has directly opposed Virtues to his own, which can't help but get nasty pretty quickly. And, while he does have to hide from Hera when he's out schmoozing or occasionally try to run interference to keep her from taking out his kids, that's probably not actually all that big a deal for him. Yeah, he loses some lovers and kids here and there, but he still gets to go have affairs, most of the kids live long enough to do important things that enhance his Legend, and at the end of the day he's still got Hera and his legitimate children, all of whom he loves. The current system has been working for him for thousands of years, and your friend probably just screwed a lot of it up.

So... I mean, yeah, he is going to have problems, your friend. Not necessarily insurmountable problems; he can probably find ways to weasel his way out of the worst of the trouble, find the gods who will high-five him for his actions instead of going after him with a pike, and add the tale to the canon of legends about impressive things he's done. But he's done a dangerous deed, and it's going to have dangerous consequences. You may want to avoid standing too close to him for a while.

Greek Week

Hey, everybody! It's vlog time, and this week is Greek Week! The kind where we talk about a bunch of Greek mythology stuff, not the kind with beer and toilet paper togas. (Although we could potentially do both. That would be a fun Saturday.)

Question: I read your blog about how the Theoi don't like anything that deviates from normal human physical perfection. So, then why do the Theoi have Gods with Animal associations? Wouldn't that mean that any Greek God with Animal would pretty much never use Animal Feature and/or Animal Form? Okay, maybe Aphrodite could get away with giving herself a pair of swan wings (since you mentioned that the Theoi don't mind wings) but if Ares gave himself ANY wolf feature, wouldn't that be kinda wrong to him?

Question: How do you guy treat Charon, as he is son of two Titans - a god, titanspawn, or even a Titan?

Question: When I was reading your post on how other pantheons laugh about the Greek/Romans small "swords", I realized that since different pantheons may have different standards of beauty, then how does having a high Apperance in one pantheon affect another who may have a different version of an ideal apperance?

Question: How might the Virtues of a Roman Scion differ from those of his or her Greek counterpart?

Question: Hera's Vengeance demands that she continue to punish Zeus' bastards forever. However, in some versions of the Heracles myth, Hera ritually adopts Heracles as her own son when he achieves apotheosis. Would that satisfy Hera's Vengeance toward him? Technically he isn't a bastard anymore. Hera has formally claimed him as her own son. Would she still need to fight her Vengeance around him? Would this option apply to other Scions of Zeus who manage to become gods?

Question: I know this will sound stupid, but what exactly is Tartarus?

Question: Valor is the Virtue of acting honorably, right? Does that mean Scions with Valor can't lie? Can't steal? Can't work undercover?

Please pardon the lack of question text in the video - the editor crashed on me so I had to rush it to make sure it go out on time.

Next week, more themes, plus the exact same faces and clothes you saw this week.

Do What You Do

Since we've gotten a bunch of these lately, here's a quick big-bang-style post with several questions about associations. Let's go at it!

Question: Why does Hera have Health associated?

Hera is strongly associated with childbirth and the health of children and pregnant women alike, which is covered by the Health purview. Not only is she one of the few gods to create children completely parthenogenically with no males involved (both Hephaestus and Typhon are said to be her children alone, although both also have alternative genealogies), but she was called upon to protect mothers and infants during pregnancy and birth and to prevent complications and diseases that might harm them, especially in her Roman guise as Juno. This is one of those places where an association comes more from cult associations than from a specific myth in which the association is demonstrated.

John would like to note that we're considering lately whether issues of childbirth and human fertility should contribute toward a Health association and how strongly, so if you have opinions, lay them on us.

Question: Does Epic Appearance really suit Tlaloc?

Have you seen him?

Tlaloc is famously crazy-looking, even among the Mexican gods, where curlicue-faces and bizarre giant clothing styles are a way of life. He combines parts of a bunch of animals related to his elements, especially the crocodile teeth and giant frog eyes, and is so visually striking that he's one of the few gods we can pick out across various different levels of Mesoamerican myth in different cultures and time periods. The Googly-Eyed Rain Monster - that's a real term, I didn't make it up! - is a mainstay of wacky Mesoamerican religious art, and Tlaloc, representative of both the devouring earth that must be fed blood to be appeased and the terrible storm that devastates the landscape and brings disease and damage, is pretty clearly intended to be terrifying in a way that many others among the Teotl are not.

Question: why does Hel have Epic Stamina associated?

We'll admit to this one being more of a stretch. Hel lives in an area that is famously inhospitable, so much so that even the gods avoid it - freezing cold and filled with debilitating disease - seemingly without any problems, and also survived being "cast" or "thrown" from Yggdrasil into Helheim by Odin (it went better for her than the similar fall did for Hephaestus, at least!). We were at the time trying to make sure all Legend 12 deities had at least four associations, which we later relaxed to three, so this one is by far her least solid.

Question: Why does Hermes have Magic associated?

Because, as Hermes Trismegistus ("thrice-great Hermes" or "thrice-wise Hermes"), he is the inventer of sorcery and patron of the Hermetic order of magaicians, who of course named their organization after him. Hilariously, Hermes T is probably a combination of Hermes and Thoth, but at this point they're almost inseparable in that role, so we found that it made more sense to extend the association to both of them than to try to split them into separate parts. It's likely that Hermes/Mercury's association with magic originally comes from his association with luck, a necessary part of his function as god of shenanigans, thievery and other things you need good fortune to pull off, but it eventually evolved into a full-blown magic association that survives to this day. Not every branch of Greek or Roman religion accepted Hermes T as being the same as Hermes, so you could set him up as a completely different god if you wanted to, but we figured in this case simplicity was better.

Question: Where do you guys get Animal (Swan) and Fertility for Aphrodite? I mean, I know it's hard to figure out powers that she might have other than "being really hot" but I can't recall a single myth of her doing anything with swans or plant life. I could see the Health Purview, since it has powers that affect sex and HUMAN fertility, not to mention Human Clay would be a useful power for the Goddess of Beauty (she can give you beauty or take it away) but Fertility and Animal don't make much sense.

Aphrodite is actually associated with the swan all the time! The bird represented light and beauty to the ancient Greeks, which made it an easy one to associate with her. Take a gander (ha!) at all these ancient images of Aphrodite hanging out with swans:

And many more. Some scholars think that these might be supposed to be geese instead of swans, in which case you could alternatively give her Animal (Goose), but we figured Swan fit with her aesthetic more. While we don't always give everyone an Animal association just because they appear with an animal in art a lot - sometimes the animal is just symbolic, or they have a myth that suggests it's not a good idea - Aphrodite is slim on associations like most Greek deities, and we figured she could use the help.

As for Fertility vs. Health, we're totally with you on the weirdness of that, but after doing as thorough a run through ancient Greek stories and descriptions of Aphrodite, that's where we ended up. Aphrodite is indeed associated with sex, but while Health does affect baby-making, it doesn't have a lot to do with the sex act itself beyond that, and so Aphrodite's strong connections to bangin' didn't really give her much of a connection there (although her Roman persona, Venus, is a little bit more linkable to Health as a concept). But the ancient Greeks connected human fertility and the fertility of the earth symbolically and even literally in many of their writings, so that Aphrodite is often praised as a bringer of earthly fertility despite not being a more classical plant-shaper. From Stasinus describing Aphrodite as eternally clothed in "crocus and hyacinth and flourishing violet and the rose's lovely bloom, so sweet and delicious, and heavenly buds, the flowers of the narcissus and lily; in such perfumed garments is Aphrodite clothed at all seasons," to the Homeric hymns stating that flowers spring up beneath her feet wherever she walks, plants turn up surprisingly frequently with Aphrodite. The reason is probably best summed up in Aeschylus' Danaides, in which Aphrodite herself describes the births of all the plants and trees and flowers of the world, and then claims, "Of all these things I am the cause," suggesting that because she is the motivator for sex which causes procreation, she is the root cause of all procreation of all life, even though she does not participate in the actual childbearing or mothering process.

Question: Shouldn't Hermes have Epic Dexterity and Illusion? Apologies if this has been answered already.

While Hermes certainly has decent amounts of both, neither was strong enough for us to want to give him the Ultimate expression of it. He does use Illusion occasionally, most notably in the tale where he makes himself a doppelgaenger of a man in order to drive him insane, but he doesn't do it all that often or all that impressively, so for the most part his trickery is probably the result of awesome Manipulation and Wits, and some low- to mid-level Illusion boons now and then. Dexterity doesn't really fit him, either; he does have the epithet "quick-footed", which helps, but for the most part the modern idea of him as super-fast comes from his role as messenger of the gods rather than any actual mythological association with speed of travel.

Question: Why does Njord have Fire associated?

Because of this passage in the Prose Edda:

The third among the Aesir is he that is called Njörd: he dwells in heaven, in the abode called Nóatún. He rules the course of the wind, and stills sea and fire; on him shall men call for voyages and for hunting.

Even more than Hel above, Njord suffers from the dearth of mythological information on the Aesir and Vanir. While his Water association as the god of the ocean is pretty solid, everything else tends to be like that - single statements that are clear, but don't have any other examples to back them up. Njord is supposed to be one of the most important and powerful of the Vanir, which is why he was traded to the Aesir in the first place, so we decided to give him Sky and Fire in spite of the lack of extra stories attached to them... but we feel like it's likely he may get demoted to a lot fewer associations in the future workup of lower-Legend gods. The Edda's very clear that he does those things, so we like them, but we also usually want more than one example, so thus is our quandary.

That's all our association questions for today - phew!

Wife Swap

Question: If Metis comes back, what happens to Hera? Metis is the rightful wife of Zeus, so does Hera respect the sanctity of that union and back off, or fight for the sanctity of her own union?

Well, there are a few issues at work here.

The first is whether or not Metis actually ever was Zeus' wife. Hesiod does in fact refer to her as the first wife of Zeus in one passage. Apollodorus, on the other hand, claims that Metis tried to escape Zeus by shapechanging and that her conception of Athena was via rape, and nowhere mentions any permanent bond between them. Whether or not you consider them to have been married in the first place is really a matter of which source of the myth you prefer. It's not out of the question for Zeus to have married an ancient Titaness, especially one as useful to his newfound need to hold the throne as Metis, but then again the seek-and-seize attacks on women who then bear his children is one of Zeus' most traditional methods of relating to females.

If you do consider them married based on Hesiod, however, he also gives you the answer to the second part of the question: he, like everyone else, also calls Hera Zeus' wife, which he would not have done if she had been in any way considered not his legitimate spouse. Most of ancient Greece was monogamous, so it would not be likely for any of these ancient writers to consider Zeus married to more than one goddess at once. That means that if they consider Hera his legitimate wife, Metis must perforce no longer be considered so. That's most likely because Metis is effectively dead in Greek myth, because Zeus went ahead and ate her and that shit's pretty final; or, since most Greek deities weren't considered capable of dying, it might just be that the act of devouring your wife is a pretty clear declaration of divorce. Greek dudes could divorce their wives pretty easily, especially if there were problems with fidelity or children, and it's pretty clear that the ancient Greeks considered there to be an official break between Zeus and Metis at some point. Because, again... he ate her.

So no, Metis returning would not suddenly mean that Hera's position was necessarily threatened. She is Zeus' current, legitimate, by-law and by-bond wife, and the presence of Zeus' ex-wife (if you so assign her) won't suddenly change that. That union was broken before she ever married Zeus, or else she wouldn't have been able to marry him at all. It was totally possible for Greek men to have concubines while married, provided they didn't live with them and potentially disrupt the family unit, but there's a massive avalanche of evidence in Greek myth that Hera is definitely a wife and not a concubine, starting with the fact that no one ever fails to list her as his wife and ending with the fact that as the goddess of marriage and domesticity it would be massively counter to her very nature to fill that role. Zeus was once married to Metis, perhaps, but is not anymore.

That doesn't mean there couldn't be dramatic problems, of course, especially if Zeus decides he's interested in Metis again or vice versa. Zeus has the same problem he originally had with Metis - sleeping with her might lead to his downfall - so he may be able to control himself, and even if he does go for it he probably wouldn't divorce Hera since he's stuck with her through massive gymnastic numbers of affairs, but that won't make his potential interest in her less likely to piss Hera off (and maybe Metis, too, if Apollodorus is right and Zeus assaulted her). If Metis decides she wants Zeus again, we might be looking at an epic battle of Manipulation between her and Hera, as she tries to sway him to return to her and Hera tries to defend her marriage. Other gods might get involved, too, with those hoping to see Zeus go down trying to help get him together with Metis and those trying to protect him from himself doing their best to keep the two apart.

But as far as Hera goes, her marriage with Zeus is completely legal and current, and it's in her character and nature as a goddess to fight tooth and nail to keep it that way. Metis can't supplant her by just showing up, and is in for a rip-roaring fight if she wants to try to change the status quo.

Half an Hour of Questions

Hi, everybody! Today, John is not home so I go off the rails on a mad question-answering spree. As usual, trying to get caught up so you guys don't have to feel like you send in your questions to a massive black hole in the universe. Hooray!

Question soup, coming at you:

Question: I don't remember where I read this, but there was an article that said that the reason Zeus went on a raping frenzy was so that Hercules would be born to deal with the gaints that Gaia created, and that the battle of Troy was orchestrated so that Zeus could get rid of the demigods that were born as a result of this Batman gambit for Hercules to be born. Is this part of Greek myth?

Question: Mechanically, how do you deal with Thor's strength belt and how it works when it doubles his strength, especially when he pops Ultimate Strength while wearing it?

Question: How would you classify the Aztec land of Tlillan-Tlapallan? Terra Incognita? Part of the Overworld? Sanctum for Quetzalcoatl? Alternate name for some mundane place (some scholars think it might be a name for Chichen Itza)?

Question: Did any of your Visitations have a parent god show up in their true form, or were they all avatared down?

Question: Can you name some of the Titans that might have been responsible for the shattering of Tartarus?

Question: How do you deal with Negative Epic Appearance in a party? Every game I see forces that player to get My Eyes Are Up Here or Visage Great & Terrible, or get kicked out of the group. Nobody wants to be constantly terrified of you or throwing up.

Question: So Hera being the enforcer of fidelity in marriage seems to mean that she only enforces fidelity from wives to their husbands, not the other way around. She never comes down on Zeus, and never smites any mythological male hero who is married for not keeping it in his pants, but comes down on all the women who cheated with Zeus.

Question: In your Fatebinding system, are the expectations and rejections worked out as soon as the Legend is spent? If a Scion spends a bunch of Legend, and then quickly follows that up with some awesome heroic stuff that doesn't cost Legend, would Fate take that into account? Or is it just based on the "initial spend" kind of thing?

Question: Speaking of Celtic Underworlds! Any ideas on the Overworlds and Underworlds of the continental Celts and the Nemetondevos?

Question: Hey, on the progress bar I see there is a Secret Project. Is there anything you can tell us about what it may entail and how large it may be?

Man, sorry for the crazy lighting changes. Someday I'll learn how to video.

Mad World

Question: So my character's mother has been been horribly cursed (short form: with insanity) by Hera for the last two decades for having the temerity to get raped and impregnated by Zeus. How would one go about to unravel such a curse? The Greek gods seem very limited in their capacity to undo each others' curses (case in point, Tiresias). Merely compensating for it (again, as in the case of Tiresias) isn't really an option, and even if Hera could withdraw it, she hates my character's guts. Please advise.

Well, that really depends on what exactly Hera did to curse your Scion. Did she use Moon? Magic? A relic? A favor from some other god with that power? Something else entirely? All of those will be different in how they work, what can counter them and how you would go about trying to undo their effects, so without more information there's no way to give you advice about what exactly to do.

But that's a good place to start! If all your character knows is that Hera has cursed him, the first step to trying to fix the problem is to find out what exactly happened. Talk to other people who might know; call on divine allies who might have seen this kind of thing before; bust some Mystery, whatever it takes. Once you've found out what or who actually did a number on you and how, you have the tools to start looking for ways to reverse it.

We can give you a few general suggestions; to start with, the Moon purview has the ability to cure some forms of insanity with boons like Mirror of Lunacy or Tranquility, and if those can't do it, it's almost certain that The Mirror can. Of course, you'd have to come up with some totally baller reasons why a moon god should spend resources on your sorry ass, especially if they have to go all the way up to spending the Avatar, especially if they might have to deal with Hera's displeasure as a possible consequence. Depending on the form of insanity and whether or not it has a physical component, a god with The Savior might also be able to help, although magical madnesses are often totally independent of the body and there may not be much they can do. It's also possible that magical potions, remedies or relics might be able to cure or at least help your Scion keep his condition under control; if you can find out what and where they are, you may be able to go on a quest to find them or work with a crafting Scion or god to try to build something to give you some relief.

Dodekatheon Vengeance-binges are no joke, so our hearts go out to you. Good luck, and remember: even Dionysus managed to get (mostly) back to sanity eventually!

Lord and Lady

Question: What does Zeus think of Hera? There's lots to work with on how to characterize how Hera views their marriage, but what does Zeus think of it? Does he love her but is the king of the gods so he can do whatever, or is it an empty marriage or... what?

Zeus, we assume, is extremely fond of Hera. There are several myths in which his love for his wife, from before he married her on throughout their stormy relationship, is very obvious and potent. It's easy for us to assume that he must not care about her very much since he's in a constant state of cheating on her and upsetting her, but his behavior isn't necessarily a good barometer for his feelings. Even dudes nowadays can tell you that they sometimes make bad choices without that meaning they don't love their significant others, and Zeus is from a time period and culture that wouldn't have thought a male being unfaithful was that big a deal.

Three myths spring immediately to mind as good indicators of Zeus being pretty over the moon for Hera, despite his habit of banging whomever he runs into on his morning stroll. The first is that of his courtship and marriage to her, during the ancient days of the war against the Titans; smitten by her beauty (because, you guys, Hera is seriously one of the most bootylicious ladies of the pantheon), he tried to convince her to marry him, but once she realized that the kisses and hugging were getting out of brotherly territory, she rejected him. Undaunted, he turned himself into a cuckoo and hung out outside her window until she noticed the bird and brought it inside to be her pet. He then resumed his normal form for sexytimes, as Zeus is generally wont to do, and Hera, being a goddess of marriage and feminine propriety, then married him to legitimize their union, which was said to be consummated with a three-hundred-year stretch of passionate lovemaking. Of course, Zeus pulls this kind of thing on a lot of ladies who are otherwise not interested in his constant botherment, but Hera is the only one that he married and brought to rule Olympus with him.

The interlude during the Trojan War in which Hera, seeking to distract Zeus from shenanigans going on down on the field, seduces him is another example of him being obviously all about his wife. She definitely has ulterior motives, but even so all she has to do is show up being her fabulous self and say she's going to go visit her foster mother and Zeus is immediately all, "Okay, yeah, but have you considered having sex before you go, you know, one for the road?" I've quoted his speech from The Iliad here before, but I'm doing it again because I love it and it's my blog:

"Then in answer spake to her Zeus, the cloud-gatherer: 'Hera, thither mayest thou go even hereafter. But for us twain, come, let us take our joy couched together in love; for never yet did desire for goddess or mortal woman so shed itself about me and overmaster the heart within my breast--nay, not when I was seized with love of the wife of Ixion, who bare Peirithous, the peer of the gods in counsel; nor of Danaë of the fair ankles, daughter of Acmsius, who bare Perseus, pre-eminent above all warriors; nor of the daughter of far-famed Phoenix, that bare me Minos and godlike Rhadamanthys; nor of Semele, nor of Alcmene in Thebes, and she brought forth Heracles, her son stout of heart, and Semele bare Dionysus, the joy of mortals; nor of Demeter, the fair-tressed queen; nor of glorious Leto; nay, nor yet of thine own self, as now I love thee, and sweet desire layeth hold of me."

It's not entirely smooth to try to flatter your wife by telling her that you want her even more than all the other people you've ever cheated on her with while listing them all by name, but we can see that he's trying. (And he wonders what she's always so annoyed about.)

The final and probably strongest myth that we usually bring up when discussing Zeus and Hera is the one of their near-divorce, because no other story so strongly illustrates Zeus' attachment to her. Having finally had all she could take of his infidelity, Hera officially left Zeus and moved away to live on her own mountain away from him. Were this an empty marriage that just gets in the way of Zeus' sex life, this would have been a good time for him to go see if he could start up a live episode of Olympus Gone Wild, but instead he was extremely upset over her departure and moped in his misery until finally begging Kithaeron (a mountain-god who is probably an alternative persona of Dionysus) to tell him how to get her back. Following his advice, he staged an elaborate mock wedding to a new bride (who was really just a wooden statue wearing bridal robes), and when Hera appeared, furious over this new insult, he convinced her to come home and founded a festival in honor of their reconciliation.

And it goes without saying that Zeus' response to other dudes with an interest in Hera is usually violent in the extreme. Ixion ended up lashed to a wheel for the rest of eternity for trying to hit on Hera, and when one of the Gigantes attempted to rape her, Zeus thunderbolted his skull in twain with no trial or appeal.

All this doesn't mean they don't have problems, of course; Zeus' philandering is a constant source of fighting and heartbreak, and both of them have occasionally turned their formidable tempers on one another, Zeus hanging Hera from the ceiling for defying him or Hera helping the other Olympians briefly imprison him for his misbehavior. Because they're both the highest authority in the pantheon and both Justice gods to boot, they're the only controls who can really affect and check one another.

But despite all their monumental disagreements and obvious issues, they also complement one another perfectly and clearly care about each other as husband and wife, not just gods who occupy neighboring space. Zeus is pretty much all about Hera (during the moments when she isn't mad at him, anyway), who is the only woman of equal power, majesty and beauty able to handle him.

Magical Badass

Question: So if Hera doesn't have Magic associated, how high is it, since even you guys say she's a magical badass on her character page?

Oh, I see - we were confused about where you were even getting that until we realized that the last line of her writeup says that "her awesome magical powers dwarf those of even the other gods." Sorry for any confusion! That's just unclear writing; we meant "magical" in the general sense, not specifically the Magic purview, but it's definitely misleading. It's been corrected to remove the confusing word.

Hera did have Magic associated with her in the original Scion books, but we were never really able to figure out why. our best guess is that it was supposed to represent the fact that she sometimes "curses" those who represent Zeus' misbehavior, but nothing she actually does in mythology ever really falls within the powers of the Magic purview, and it's more likely that she was using Justice or even just good old political power in most of those cases. Hera's writeup appeared at the very beginning of the line, when there were a barrel of different writers involved and it doesn't look like there was any real firm consensus on what Magic actually was or did, so we're not surprised.

Hera might indeed have a little Magic - many of the Dodekatheon do - but we would probably not estimate it at above level 5 or 6.

Queen of the Universe

Question: In your opinion, how powerful is Hera? This isn't a who can beat who question. I want to know how you would quantify her power and authority as queen of the gods, a woman and Zeus's wife.

Very. Very very very.

Among the Dodekatheon, Hera is literally second in authority only to Zeus. Queen is not a mere figurehead title; she has very real, very important political power and is not afraid to use it, and the other gods (many of whom are in the unfortunate position of being her illicit stepchildren) are right to fear upsetting or irritating her. The only person who can put a lid on Hera is Zeus, and all others are subordinate and subservient to her. Breaking the law or disrespecting her is not only political suicide, it's also likely to end in a terrifying display of Justice powers that leaves the upstart gasping for air. And she's not afraid to lay down an asskicking if someone dares challenge her or her authority, as Artemis found out when she got thoroughly trashed for trying to oppose Hera across a mortal battlefield.

If you're in the Greek pantheon, Hera is the highest authority aside from her husband, and since she has his ear, she's halfway there anyway. Don't piss her off. Don't ignore her. And if she wants you to do things, for god's sake do them, kids.

Among other pantheons, there are the usual political considerations; as queen of the Dodekatheon, nobody can really afford to insult or ignore Hera among the other gods, either, but she isn't their queen so they get to treat her as visiting royalty rather than the big boss she is at home. She's due all the highest diplomatic honors and most gods would probably try to please her if possible (because why risk pissing her off, right?), but she can't take over their lives on a whim, so there's a tiny bit more breathing room.

In our games, we often find that the king gods have their important political meetings, but their queens have equally important dealings with one another and often steer policy in the direction they want it to go. Figures like Hera, Frigg, Isis and the Tridevi are an entire shark-pool of political intrigue, power and influence all unto themselves, equaling that of their male counterparts.

Hera vs Oshun

What happened in your game to make Hera hate Oshun?  Or is it what Oshun represents that makes Hera hate her?  

Hera and Oshun are kinda polar opposites when it comes to queenly rule.  Hera is very much a one man lady.  And she expects(but doesnt get) Zeus' eternal fidelity.  Oshun is kinda the opposite of that.  Her existence almost spits in the face of everything Hera stands for.  She is ok with her husband being married to other ladies, and shes having sex with and even marrying all the other dudes.  On some level, Hera probably thinks Oshuns very existence leads men towards unfaithfulness.  She also doesnt want Zeus getting any ideas about multiple wives.  

The Course of True Love

Question: I don't know if you play DOTA, or even know of it, but Zeus is a character in it. In DOTA, he's fighting other, lesser creature, and since its a game they can fight back. The explanation for this is that Hera, sick of his sleeping around, turns him into a mortal (but he still has some power) until such time as he learns to be faithful. So, thoughts, opinions? Why or why not would this be able to happen? Personally, I thought that his brothers would get PISSED and stop her, but I don't know for sure.

Heh, we know the DOTA (Defense of the Ancients, for those who don't, a battle mod for online multiplayer in Warcraft III). We're old WC3 players ourselves, and now John is dancing around the room singing about it.

While the Lord of Heaven is totally awesome to have on a DOTA team, we wouldn't duplicate his circumstances in Scion for a few reasons. The most important one is that we feel strongly that there should not be powers in the game that can drop someone Legend permanently, no matter who's doing it or why. It would be horrendously overbalanced, being immediately the most powerful ability in the entire game (Death of the Soul is already bananas, and it can only do this to gods for a few ticks!), capable of instantly rendering any and every god or Scion murderable, controllable and comparatively helpless when dealing with foes of his former Legend or higher. When your Legend is taken away, you lose all your powers and innate abilities that are higher than that current Legend, representing not just an insane loss of XP but a massive and incontrovertible drop to where you are literally incapable of dealing with the people and problems you know anymore. The gods that had the power to drop others' Legend would outright rule the world with no competition except for one another, and everyone else would be at their depressing mercy.

It's a case where one of the golden rules of roleplaying comes into play: is this something that you would find absolutely horrible, unfair or grounds for immediately quitting the game if it happened to your character? If so, it should not be in the game at all, because if it is, at some point it might happen to the PCs. If you can't look your player in the eye and say, "Sorry, bud, you drop from Legend 10 to 4 permanently and lose all your powers," it probably shouldn't be an option for things that can happen to NPCs, either. On top of that, we don't think losing Legend dots from any agency other than your own actions makes much sense in Scion's setting; Legend isn't just your power stat but also represents your importance to the World and its religions, the strength of your renown and stories, and the general effect you have on the universe as a whole. Dropping your Legend means erasing your renown and power in mythology from the universe itself, and it runs counter to the entire idea of Legend as the measure of a god's existence.

That doesn't mean this scenario couldn't happen in Scion, though, just that we would probably operate it differently. Zeus can presumably drop his own Legend and stay lower-powered indefinitely if he has the Avatar Birthright, so the easiest assumption here is that he's the one keeping himself at a lower Legend rating. This is a marital spat, after all, and while the king and queen of Olympus don't have them very often, they're legendarily disruptive when they do; Hera might simply have kicked him out until he proved he could behave himself, and he's trying to do that to appease her. If that doesn't feel like enough to convince him to give up the comfy throne for a while (which is reasonable - he presumably has a lot to do, and while he's very fond of Hera he also sometimes gets pissed off rather than apologizing for his shenanigans), Hera could enforce his desire to do these things with some of her own powers. Demand a Labor would make it in Zeus' best interests to prove his love to his wife because it would be very difficult for him to get anything else done before he did, and it would be a simple thing for Hera to hit him with any number of unpleasant, crippling or painful Justice boons, refusing to grant him a Pardon until he earned it.

Of course, this would be a very bad idea while the gods are busy trying to fight a war against high-powered enemies, but love (and Virtues) sometimes makes people do crazy things. As for Hades and Poseidon, I could see them being peeved if Zeus being AWOL interferes with their own plans or makes the defense of Olympus more difficult, but as a generality I imagine they probably wouldn't care about whether or not Hera is inflicting marital vengeance on her husband. They don't have Loyalty and aren't really big on interfering in their brothers' affairs, so they'd be most likely to shake their heads and ignore it unless it started causing them personal problems. There's also a possibility that they'd get up to more shenanigans of their own than usual, too - with Zeus, the only dude in their pantheon who can really try to argue with them about anything, out of commission, now's the perfect time for power plays or vengeance gambits that might not normally be worth it.

I think Zeus' absence and the PCs' actions, either to help him succeed or try to get things done in his absence, could be a lot of fun as the foundation plot for a chronicle. You could call it "When Mama Ain't Happy."

Happy Families

Question: Suppose a child of Zeus finds out about his or her parentage prior to Visitation and asks to serve Hera as a preemptive means of appeasing her. Is this the kind of thing that Hera might accept? If so, is she going to single out the Scion for poor treatment or treat him or her the same as the rest of her adopted children?

Neat idea! Although a little difficult to pull off - not a lot of ways for mortal children of the gods who haven't had Visitations yet to find out about their birth parents or go talk to goddesses, but I'm sure there could be some way it could happen.

I think Hera would be likely to find it an interesting gesture, and depending on what kind of mood this supplicant Scion caught her in, she might be willing to adopt him. But alas, she would never treat him the same as the rest of her children; not only is she probably not inclined to, but she's almost actually incapable of doing so.

Hera has Vengeance, like all of the Dodekatheon, and is probably one of those who has it at a full, unapologetic five dots to boot. Even if she genuinely likes someone, if her Vengeance says they've done her wrong and need to be lashed out against, that lashing out has a good chance of happening. This poor Scion is coming in with no bargaining power, nothing to offer (because he's still a mortal - he has potential, but she doesn't yet know how that will develop) and no features except being the living evidence of Zeus' disrespect for their marriage, and as a result he's rolling the dice on even surviving his attempt to make nice with her. If she does keep it under control long enough to accept him, he's won a single battle in a possibly neverending war, because her Vengeance will continue to rail against him whenever she sees him.

Of course, if she turns out to really like the kid, she's more likely to be willing to try to roll against her Vengeance and pay Willpower to keep him in one piece, but if she doesn't have a reason to go to all that trouble, she's probably going to make his life hell at least some of the time. Then, too, there's always the danger that she'll make a catastrophic roll one day and hit Vengeance Extremity, at which point the Scion or his philandering biological daddy are both potentially in deep trouble as she goes to rampage mode. The more the Scion can do to ingratiate himself with her, from praising her, bringing her gifts, performing her tasks and speaking out against Zeus' misbehavior, the better his odds will be, but every god has the occasional moment of Virtue-motivated insanity, and Hera's not immune to that.

Just generally speaking, Virtues aside, Hera is probably always going to be harder on this Scion than on her others. He's going to get worse jobs, more difficult problems and colder treatment at the very least; he'll need to prove himself to her in ways that the other children, chosen by her and from less painful origins, don't. The sins of his father are going to hang over his head for a long time, and while he can certainly work to change her perception of him, the simple act of asking Hera to take him on won't make her forget where he came from or prevent her from responding emotionally. Think of the usual response a normal human husband or wife might have to suddenly having to raise their spouse's lovechild from an affair, and then multiply that by the giant overblown emotions of the gods. It can happen, but it won't be easy.

But it's definitely still possible, and I think it would make for a very interesting character story to see how that Scion tried to handle the family politics around him and decided to grow and side with one, the other, or neither of these hugely bad-tempered parents. It's a perfect plot for someone with the Expositor or Penitent nature, and depending on how well the Scion pulled it off, could lead to considerable political power for him on Olympus once he ascended to godhood himself. Hera has accepted Scions of Zeus before - Dionysus and Heracles, though both went through severe trial by fire before she stopped harassing them - and potentially could again, but it's all in how you play it.

And Hera is a pretty awesome patron for a young hero and pretty fond of blessings and forcing the other gods to provide aid or stay out of the way, so there are certainly also rewards for working for her. It's a hard road but one that probably can't help but lead to some really rewarding stories.

The Boss' Wife

Question: So Zeus and Hera tend to be constantly at each others throats, and their (meaning of course Zeus', since Hera, at least in myth, tends to be quite faithful as far as I know) kids often get to be the pawns of their marital arguments, much like Hercules and the Labors. I would say it is safe to imagine that Hera would torment almost any and all Scions of Zeus. Is there any hope for the children of the Olympian king? Or are there always going to be snakes in all their cribs and madness-induced murder?

Hera is, indeed, completely and totally faithful only to Zeus; even the wacky mystery religions, which come up with truly insane side genealogies and affairs for many of the Greek gods, never touch her. As the goddess of marriage and the family who has never had any lover before her husband, she couldn't have any flesh-and-blood Scions of her own without not only breaking the rules but actually flouting her own central representation as a goddess. She has no children that are not also Zeus' children with the possible exception of Hephaestus, who in some alternate versions is her parthenogenic son and does not have a father.

On the other hand, Zeus probably has, like, all the Scions, and you're right, Hera is unlikely to be happy about any of them. While the Titan war has certainly put the gods in dire straits and Scions are certainly necessary for them to eventually triumph, it's unlikely that Hera would be able to ignore her own nature or her husband's infidelity even in the name of cooperation and the war effort (after all, she adopts her Scions, so why can't he?). Scions of Zeus are probably always going to have to deal with her anger and dislike, which could range from infanticide attempts to making their missions hellish to sabotaging their every move when they get to Olympus and are on her home turf. I would say that, in the name of Scion's setting, Hera will probably not actively try to murder Zeus' Scions most of the time as much as make them the most miserable people in creation (murdering their families, for example, totally not off-limits); she's a savvy lady and she understands the need for shock troops, but if calm and logical reason was enough to override five dots of Vengeance, none of the Greek gods would have half the problems they do.

If you're worried about Scions of Zeus feeling too picked on, feel free to spread the anti-love around to other Scions who spring from Zeus' misbehavior; after all, Greek gods are all about punishing several generations of those who offend them, so Scions of Hermes, Apollo, Artemis or Persephone might also find her wrath turned upon them for being the grandchildren of Zeus' affairs. (Scions of Dionysus may be exempt, since he's the only illegitimate child of her husband who ever managed to convince Hera that he was a great guy and she should love him. Beleagured targets of her wrath may want to go beg him for advice on how he did it.)

Or if you're looking for a way to have a Scion of Zeus who doesn't have a giant bullseye painted on his forehead, consider having him be the son of both Zeus and Hera instead of born out of wedlock; as long as Hera was willing to take on a low-Legend Avatar form for the conception and birth, we rule that goddesses can give birth to Scions who aren't full gods from the outset (this is what Vishnu and Lakshmi, and other famously monogamous couples, usually do in our games). Of course, that depends on whether your Storyteller is down with it - I know of some games that require both parents to be in low-Legend Avatar form to have non-god children, and some that don't allow it at all - but it might be a good workaround for that rare, shining Scion of Hera who is her blood child, or of Zeus who isn't marked for extraordinarily angry goddess reprisal.

By the way, an interesting theory was suggested to me via email by a fellow Scion enthusiast the other day; the idea was that since the prophecy that Zeus' son will overthrow him is still in effect, Hera is actually killing off all his bastards in an effort to protect him from it coming to pass, rather than just because she hates them (though, again, Vengeance, so she probably hates them at least a little). They don't know who the mother of this prophesied son might be, so Hera may actually be acting to save her husband from himself and preserve their rule of Olympus by murdering children who might threaten him when they grow up. Considering that Scions are exactly the sort of children who have mighty prophecies spring up around them, she wouldn't be off-base to fear that any new son might be the chosen one. So for those looking for a version of Hera that is more sympathetic and supports the legendary solidity of their marriage more, that might be an interesting plot point all on its own.

Alas, Scions of Zeus will always have a hard row to hoe, even if they're trying their very best to impress their cranky stepmother. But that's how it goes when you're the destined sons of the ruler of the Greek universe; nobody said being at the top was going to be easy.

Sweet Salacia

Question: I know she's nowhere near famous enough to be Legend 12, but what level of Legend and associated powers would you give Amphitrite? I ask specifically because I have a trio of players who want to play as Scions of The Real Housewives of Olympus, and while Hera and Persephone are fine, I can't find much to give Amphitrite other than Water.

I have a bit of a secret soft spot for Amphitrite myself, so I feel you; she's a pretty excellent lady and it's tragic that she doesn't get as much love as the other ladies among the Dodekatheon. She probably isn't Legend 12, but there are traces that many scholars believe suggest that she was the original goddess of the Mediterranean, and that Poseidon's marriage to her symbolized him taking on that mantle, rather than it being something he had always embodied. Apollodorus calls her a daughter of Oceanus and Tethys, making her older and more cosmic a figure than any of the other goddesses except for Aphrodite, and she appears whenever important goddesses and female Titans are having a powwow, rubbing elbows with the likes of Rhea and Themis. Early Amphitrite myths set her as the supreme power in the sea; Poseidon's power comes from being married to her, not the other way around, though as time wore on and the Olympians became all-important, she diminished and Poseidon became the pre-eminent power over the waves.

All this makes her a possible candidate to be a Titan Avatar, actually, what with the personification of the sea and the ancient origins and the supplanting of her role by the gods, but that doesn't help you out for Real Housewives much, so we'll look at her as a goddess instead. Water is a given, but considering that she is often described as "ox-eyed" or "beauteous" and that Poseidon chased her all over the place upon first seeing her, I would say that you could give her Epic Appearance associated without too much trouble. Any other associations are slim pickings; you might grant her Animal (Dolphin) based on the myth of it being the only animal that could convince her to come back and marry Poseidon, or perhaps Epic Dexterity on the strength of her ability to flee so quickly that even one of the three crowned Olympians couldn't keep up with her. There are some archaic references to her as the "goddess of the spindle", but since there's no Spinning purview, that doesn't help us very much.

If I were going to try to shoehorn something together, I'd probably go with her having Water and Appearance at Legend 10, or Animal (Dolphin), Water, and Appearance as a Legend 11, with Dexterity or Charisma as poor alternate options if you need more. She doesn't really fit the playable roster very well, but since you're working toward a specific idea, you can probably fudge a bit and your players will run with it happily. And, as I said, she's one of my favorites, so far be it from me to discourage her use as a major player in-game!