Today, we answer questions about cosmology, setting and crazy goddamn alien lifeforms. Hooray!
Question: Can Avatars create Legendary creatures? Such as the Shaper creating a living golem, or the Glory creating light entities?
Question: You statted up Tiamat and Apsu for your Anunna supplement, but what about their son Kingu? Would he be an Avatar of a greater Titan, or just a disenfranchised god?
Question: The books and PDFs have a lot of details about different ways that a living Scion can get INTO the Underworlds. I imagine if they had clearly-marked exist, the dead would just use them all the time - but how is a living Scion whose time has not yet come supposed to get back OUT? Do they have to ask the local death god for a way our? Can they just retrace their steps and spent a point of Legend to emerge into the World?
Question: How would you do a Chaos Titanrealm? Not asking for which Titans you'd pick, just asking what you think it would look like. (And batshit crazy isn't a real answer.)
Question: How would you kind folks at GBN do a Chaos Titanrealm? Hundun always seemed to be a cop-out, to be frank. I've already seen your awesome Inca Destruction realm, and wonder if that would basically be it.
Question: So, aliens! Where do aliens fit into Scion? Have you ever included them in your games? By "alien", I mean both the common perception of aliens (greys, reptilians, etc.) and mortal races not originating on earth or in an Overworld. Second, what are "Lyrans" and what connection do they have to the Anunna?
I don't think a vlog has been this saturated with pop culture since... ever.
Earth was the Lich, Fire was Kary.
ReplyDeleteNERDS! NERDS! NERDS!
And I replied before the vlog was finished.
DeleteShe was a Lamia, essentially
NERDS NERDS NERDS!!!!!
DeleteIirc in various versions she's also called Marileth or something like that. I know she has different making across versions and remakes instead of just Kary
DeleteDifferent naming. Goddamn phone.
DeleteKary is an "Engrish" misspelling of Kali. You get that a lot in older Japanese games when they try to translate them into English, and fail, for whatever reason. These days it doesn't show up as much.
DeleteOhh, that makes a lot more sense than the Stephen King reference.
DeleteThere was a game on the forums where the earth was visited by aliens who had built Stargates in the world. Except the heroes found out it was actually legendary creatures making touchstones and using boons. They just claimed they were aliens so humanity would accept their meddling.
ReplyDeleteOh, yeah, gods posing as aliens is also a classic approach!
DeleteReverse chariots of the gods?
DeleteIry's Missing Pieces game had Formorians disguising themselves as benevolent aliens called "Keepers" who were using advanced technology to help the world. Their stargates were clever uses of the Rainbow Bridge boon.
DeleteA creature that lives in a Titan Realm and is part of that Titan Realm, but not an Aspect (Avatar? I forget the RAW word) and isn't a God? Titan Archons? Primates? Manifestations?
ReplyDeleteAside from Kingu, who else do you think might fall into the Archon (i like that word) category?
Hrm, perhaps.
DeleteOthers would be your lesser greek titans(nyx etc),
The word Titan works fine.
DeleteSo you have Greater Titans (The metaphysical concept)
Titan Avatars (Manifestations that are direct expressions of a Greater Titan)
Titans (Manifestations that are general and not specifically a direct expression)
Corrupted Gods (Gods who hang out with Titans)
Too many things with the same "names" even with slight changes to that name can get confusing. We got rid of greater titan....for titan realm, cause that was slightly less confusing...but they should all be different words. IF they're used often enough for that to matter.
DeleteDon't the greeks already have lots of 'Titans' who are not Titan Avatars?
DeleteTotally, but there's no need to make Scion's out-of-character nomenclature even more confusing than it already is. I changed "Titan Avatar" to "Titan Aspect" just to get rid of one of the THREE uses of the word Avatar in the system. I changed Purview Avatars to Purview Ultimates to get rid of the second. Like John and Anne, I also call "Greater Titans" the "Titan Realms".
DeleteIt shouldn't require a cheat-sheet just to make sure your basic terminology is correct, and too many "Titans" is just that mess. They can be "Titan Xs", but that X is important.
Titan Manifestations might work for these "rarespawns", but it's kinda clunky. I still favor Titan Archons for "overseer" level Titanspawn.
Archon has strong rulership connotations though. How about something that both shows that these are mega-powerful but also subservient to the Titan Avatars/Aspects, like, say, Champion? I mean, in a very real sense, Qingu is Tiamat's Champion, and Nyx kind of is Erebus' (I personally prefer them both as Titans though), or is that word too video gamey?
DeleteTitan Realm only makes slightly more sense than Greater Titan, since both reference a vast metaphysical entity that may or may not have subconscious desires. I prefer the term Primordial, because they all are.
DeleteI'm still wondering about the fact that Erebos is put above Nyx, because while does only ever appear in genealogies, Nyx is mentioned several times in the myths as a terrible force that the gods fear (just remember her appearance in the Trojan War). Is it because she is night with stars and everything and thus a worse fit for the Darkness Realm?
DeleteOoo, I do kinda like Titan Champion... I'm torn. Archon has rulership connotations, but that's because they're ruling over the lesser Titanspawn. They're leaders, but not fundamentally part of the elemental force embodied by the Realm as the Aspects(Avatars) are.
Deletenot that it needed to be done, but thanks for reminding me how much I love you guys!
ReplyDeleteHa, we love you, too!
DeleteMy guess is that Neo-Hundun (because given the Shen's focus on government and bureaucracy, I rather suspect the Titan of Chaos is still the source of their primary adversaries) is probably a mirror of Earth...that is undergoing massive changes and transformation at any given time, on the basis of "I'm Chaos, what the Tartarus do you expect?" I would avoid Instant Death, unless the explorers have been bogged down by other things first, as nobody sane likes Instant Death without warning.
ReplyDeleteSpeaking of Hundun, he deserves to be his own Titan Avatar-he's a fairly unique character in his own right in Chinese myth, and actually an example of governmental incompetence in one story (a pair of functionaries decide to give him eyes and a mouth, so they drill holes for them...into his brain, instantly killing him. Yeah, oops).
Probably the embodiment of Chaos as confusion and youth before the discipline of adulthood-he's not a malevolent creature, but he's very petulant and childlike, and is known to spontaneously mutate creature he senses (he has no eyes, so "sees" is kind of a misnomer) into horrifying forms because they look cool, and he's bored. He's also not a fan of Shen bureaucrats, since his migraines remind him constantly of their idea of "helping."
Definitely agreed that Hundun should be an Avatar himself (although he's one of the few personified figures turned into realms in the books that we didn't mind too much - his story could be symbolic, although we prefer it more "concrete"). Well-meaning bureaucrats ruining everything is an ongoing theme for the Shen.
DeleteIn my headcanon, Qingu is an Avatar of my War Realm Mag Tuiread, as Titan of the spoils of war (I mean, he is the general of Tiamat's armies), representing the right of conquerors to rule the conquered. He's currently helping the ruling Avatar Balor with the siege on Tir na Nog, along with his fellow Avatars Perses, Chi You and Dhoomavati.
ReplyDeleteI like this a lot! War as the opposition to the Tuatha is a really interesting concept, especially considering 5/7 of the Playable Gods have War associated. It's almost too obvious.
DeleteThanks! :)
DeleteI like to think of it on two fronts. Firstly, I couldn't really see any big natural element opposing the Tuatha. A case could be made for Water, but the fact remains that while the Fomorians may be from the sea and children of Domnu, they never DO anything with Water. Lir is a choice, but putting him above Balor in the enemy hierarchy does not feel right.
Secondly, all the Tuatha's problems stem from war. All their kings are technically dead because of it (not to mention poor Erinmas), the whole sons of Tuirean problem started because of a feud (eating his father didn't help), Cu Chulainn, their greatest Scion dies in war etc.
Of course, the Tuatha, being the Tuatha, would never think War is bad, which is just one more reason for it...as a Pantheon these guys have a nigh-suicidal tendency to jump into battle given any excuse (I mean, let us not forget, the Tuatha were the invaders after all). War is not their Titan because they hate it, War is their opposition because they're nigh-addicted to it.
Are their any other potential Avatars I missed that you guys can think of?
DeleteSeconding the support for the Tuatha de Danaan facing the Greater Titan of War with Balor at its helm, though it also amuses me to imagine that the Tuatha came from said Titan while the Fomorians didn't join up until after their defeat.
DeleteBoth Eris and Pallas are serviceable candidates for the Greeks. Furthermore, considering the number of Roman war gods, I'm not sure that there's at least one that can be re-purposed into a Titan. Perhaps Bellona?
The problem is that most of the best candidates seem a lot closer to the gods than the Titans. Kind of similar to Death.
How about Hiranyakashipu, eldest living member of the Daityas, the greatest of the Asuras, for the Devas?
DeleteThis is the guy who, to gain vengeance for his elder brother, proceeded to TRICK BRAHMA into giving him magical powers, then launch a war against Vishnu. Guy turned against his own son for working for Vishnu, very Titanic behavior there.
He could easily be the Avatar of strategic and deceptive warfare, which is willing to accept restraint now for greater violence and glory later.
Considering Ireland has been wracked by war for centuries, many of their myths involve raiding and war, and the greater celtic lands have many infamous tales about war... A Greater War Titan seems to fit a lot better than Lir being their primary antagonist.
DeleteHow many myths does Ireland have about water fucking them over? Not many. Bodb Derg jumps to mind?
Maybe? They have a lot of myths about wars....but so do the greeks, and may other cultures. War is definitely something they deal with, but the people they're fighting against really arent massive titans of war, but other guys. Its actually the main reason we've strayed from war being a titan realm at all. Like, sutr leads armies to war vs the aesir... every titan realm is sort of warring...the whole thing...is a war. An actual realm that is that concept seems so nebulus and hard to nail down.
Deletere: ireland and water. As a tiny island(much like the japanese) a lot of their mythology is about being terrified of the water and the things that come from it.
But those arent really their major myths, their major myths are mostly about succession for kingship and wars with other peoples.
but the important part there, is the enemy isnt the war...they really like warring. The enemy is the other people.
@Anon: I don't know how I forgot Pallas! Thanks for that. The other two strike me more as lesser Goddesses though.
Delete@Leliel: A lot of Asuras could work...too many in my opinion. However, none of the versions I've read have Hiranyakashipu tricking Brahma. Brahma knew precisely what was going down when he agreed to the boon he asked for. He was just bound by Dharma to grant it.
@John: I get what your saying, and I'd be the first to admit that all the arguments I make for the Tuatha would go equally well for the Aesir and similar Pantheons. I just really couldn't think of anything else, and Balor struck me as the perfect Avatar for the concept of living weapon of mass destruction. All the cultural justifications (such as they are) came after that. Sigh, I wish the opposition was stronger, but it isn't.
DeleteBut I still don't like the idea of Water opposing them, mainly for two reasons. A. Lir and Domnu never do anything really antagonistic to them. Domnu's children do, sure, but she doesn't. And I love Lir, but putting him above the Balor just feels...wrong. And B. I've always thought Water was a much better fit for the Shen, both mythically, with GongGong and the many scuffles with Dragon Kings, and culturally, since the yearly destruction due to the flooding of the Yellow River is an important part of their society.
@ Samudra
DeleteAh. I did read the summary version off Wikipedia. My bad.
It still makes sense for him to be the master of strategic warfare, with that.
@Leliel: Ah, Wikipedia strikes again. I appreciate the input, and I agree that he is very good at warfare, but I'm not really seeing him as a Titan...primarily because what Hiranyakashipu did (get boon from Gods then kick Gods' ass in battle) is something that basically happens once a week in Hindu mythology. He's not done anything that Ravana, Mahishasura, Vritra, his own brother Hiranyaksh etc. haven't done as well.
DeleteIn fact, Hindu myth is so saturated with people of his ilk that when I was looking for Hindu Avatars fo rMag Tuiread, the one I eventually settled on is Dhumavati, who is about as far from that archetype as you can get. Dhumavati is Goddess of funeral pyres, widows and orphans and carrion birds, and seems a perfect fit as Avatar of the desolation caused by War.
I love that you're interested in my idea, but I think Pallas will be handling strategic warfare. Thanks for the suggestion though :)
I'm now picturing a scion trolling the hell out of the first astronauts on Mars by appearing before them and performing the Vulcan salute/
ReplyDelete"How are you breathing?"
Delete"You need to breathe? Amateurs."
DRAGON OF THE WINDS.
ReplyDeleteThe Titans are my favorite aspect of the game and I appreciate the thought you put into them. I don't know how you two find time to answer all our silly questions.
We love answering questions! We create time.
DeleteCreate time? i need that purview.
DeleteIt is all what we believe in. We are biased people, and egoistic also, that's what I found out reading some comments here. LOL
ReplyDelete