Question: Why do almost all the trickster gods have Manipulation and Wits?
Because those are the stats used for trickstering, my friend, and they demonstrate them on the daily!
We've had lots of discussions about how not everybody with Manipulation or Wits is a trickster, and that is still true. You can have one or the other - or both - and be a perfectly upright and unimpeachable example of law-abiding citizenship. I gotta tell you, Eztli has ten dots of Epic Wits, but nobody in her band is worried about her pranking them any time soon.
Basically, Manipulation is the measure of your ability to hide what you're doing or convince others of something, which means that anyone who is famously good at lying, disguise, political dealings or playing tricks on others probably has a lot of it. Without Manipulation, Loki wouldn't be able to convince Hod to throw mistletoe at Baldur and Tezcatlipoca wouldn't be able to make Quetzalcoatl think he had suddenly turned into a hideous ogre without noticing; Horus would never have been able to pull off tricking Set into losing all the contests between them, and Stribog would never have been able to fool Chors into thinking he was someone else. That doesn't mean that everybody who ever lies has Ultimate Manipulation - that would be kind of bananas, considering how many gods can't seem to tell the truth even when caught red-handed - but it does mean that gods who are famous for being able to smooth-talk their way out of things or confusticate their fellows into making hilarious mistakes are probably rocking that Ultimate.
Wits, on the other hand, is about reaction time, quick thinking and improvisation; it's the stat you need to pull a solution out of nowhere at the last possible second or to be able to jump at a new idea in time to keep from getting burnt by the old one. Without Wits, Loki wouldn't have been able to avoid punishment on several occasions by jumping in and offering to fix the problems he caused, Quetzalcoatl wouldn't have been able to pull off a desperate improvised gambit to steal from Mictlantecuhtli and Enki wouldn't have been able to quick-think his way around Enlil's rules and save humanity from the great flood. Tricksters tend to have Wits because they need them to survive; their stories usually feature them being able to think on their feet even in the worst situations, often narrowly saving their skins (usually from something they themselves did that is now backfiring on them). They also use the stat to make sure that they're quick enough to seize any opportunity for their own favored brand of mischief.
We don't just hand Manipulation and Wits to everyone who's a trickster, of course - like all other associations, it's based as much as possible on what they do in their stories rather than just saying, "Eh, he's a shenanigans guy, give him both." Some tricksters, including Eshu, Hermes, Horus, Loki, Manannan mac Lir and Odin do have both because they consistently exemplify both qualities; others, including Enki, Quetzalcoatl and Tezcatlipoca have only one or the other, illustrating that they're very strong in one area but not necessarily the highest level of skilled in the other. And, of course, there are non-trickster gods like Ishtar, Isis or Parvati that have both without really fitting the archetype at all; like all stats, Manipulation and Wits can be used for different kinds of purposes and representations across different gods.
Incidentally, you don't need both as a PC to be an effective trickster, either, if that's what you're aiming for. They're both helpful, but you can also find ways to manage with just one; Manipulation-only tricksters usually have to lay their plans far in advance and watch them trigger like dominos falling, while Wits-only tricksters always fly by the seat of their pants and just have to keep moving so quickly that nobody will have the time or wherewithal to figure out what they're doing. Having neither is pretty challenging, especially since a famous career as a trickster will probably get you Fatebound to one or the other, but you still might be able to pull off your divine pranksterism in other ways. After all, there are gods with neither associated who have definitely pulled some shit in their time, so you can always decide to blaze your own trail the way they did.
Showing posts with label Tricksters. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Tricksters. Show all posts
Friday, August 30, 2013
Sunday, May 26, 2013
The Gift That May or May Not Keep on Giving
Question: How possible is it for a trickster god of a pantheon to tinker with the Birthright given to a Scion by their divine parent in their Visitation? (I.e.: Hermes getting Athena to give her Scion a Birthright related to spiders.)
Very possible, but how that goes down depends on what kind of shenanigans you have in mind.
To begin with, a trickster god can't actually turn a relic intended for a Scion into something other than it already is; that's a specialized power that doesn't come automatically with the trickster portfolio. Gods who wish to change the properties of a relic need Industry (specifically Reforging to do a whole-item transformation, or lower-level boons to mess with other specifics) in order to do so, reshaping it into a new form or set of powers, and it's generally not something they could do instantly while it was being handed over. A trickster with Industry and the determination to change a relic's powers could, however, find a way to discreetly "borrow" it for a little while and then put it back after reforging with none the wiser. There aren't many trickster gods out there with Industry, but they could also find a way to shanghai a crafter god into doing it for them (and bonus: there's a fall guy to take the blame if someone finds out and gets mad!).
Another option is just good old crazypants trickery. Hermes can't make the Animal (Owl)-infused relic Athena's handing over turn into an Animal (Spider) one on the spur of the moment, but if he plays his manipulative and confusing cards just right, he might be able to work on convincing her that her kid really needs a relic with Animal (Spider), because insert convincing-sounding reasons here. Tricksters are often (not always, but often) also the people with the Magic purview, meaning they're intimately involved in the granting of relics thanks to being in charge of the Birthright Bond spell, so they could also surreptitiously just bond a different item to the kid than they said they were doing at the time. And even if they aren't the person in charge of binding a relic, if they happen to have Illusion powers or are otherwise great at distraction and misdirection, they might even be able to hornswoggle the actual magician into accidentally binding the wrong item to a Scion (or binding the right item to the wrong Scion, for that matter!).
Like most trickster behaviors, this is of course dangerous; other people with Magic can usually see changes to relics easily by activating The Unlidded Eye, and any suspicious god with a really badass Perception + Occult roll will probably be able to see that a trickster is doing some magic flim-flammery (or regular flim-flammery, with a Perception + Empathy roll). Hermes can probably get Athena at least a little bit turned around if he really puts his mind to it, but he's probably not going to want to try the same thing on, say, Apollo unless he's really, really invested in it. Heaven forbid someone try to perform some kind of skullduggery with the relics being granted by someone like Mithra, who has Perception and Justice and The All-Seeing Eye and absolutely no tolerance for wacky hijinks.
But shoot, yeah, tricksters are pros at confusing and bedazzling their friends into doing things they didn't mean to do. Relic-granting is no more immune to that than any other activity, though it might require a little more creativity on their parts.
Very possible, but how that goes down depends on what kind of shenanigans you have in mind.
To begin with, a trickster god can't actually turn a relic intended for a Scion into something other than it already is; that's a specialized power that doesn't come automatically with the trickster portfolio. Gods who wish to change the properties of a relic need Industry (specifically Reforging to do a whole-item transformation, or lower-level boons to mess with other specifics) in order to do so, reshaping it into a new form or set of powers, and it's generally not something they could do instantly while it was being handed over. A trickster with Industry and the determination to change a relic's powers could, however, find a way to discreetly "borrow" it for a little while and then put it back after reforging with none the wiser. There aren't many trickster gods out there with Industry, but they could also find a way to shanghai a crafter god into doing it for them (and bonus: there's a fall guy to take the blame if someone finds out and gets mad!).
Another option is just good old crazypants trickery. Hermes can't make the Animal (Owl)-infused relic Athena's handing over turn into an Animal (Spider) one on the spur of the moment, but if he plays his manipulative and confusing cards just right, he might be able to work on convincing her that her kid really needs a relic with Animal (Spider), because insert convincing-sounding reasons here. Tricksters are often (not always, but often) also the people with the Magic purview, meaning they're intimately involved in the granting of relics thanks to being in charge of the Birthright Bond spell, so they could also surreptitiously just bond a different item to the kid than they said they were doing at the time. And even if they aren't the person in charge of binding a relic, if they happen to have Illusion powers or are otherwise great at distraction and misdirection, they might even be able to hornswoggle the actual magician into accidentally binding the wrong item to a Scion (or binding the right item to the wrong Scion, for that matter!).
Like most trickster behaviors, this is of course dangerous; other people with Magic can usually see changes to relics easily by activating The Unlidded Eye, and any suspicious god with a really badass Perception + Occult roll will probably be able to see that a trickster is doing some magic flim-flammery (or regular flim-flammery, with a Perception + Empathy roll). Hermes can probably get Athena at least a little bit turned around if he really puts his mind to it, but he's probably not going to want to try the same thing on, say, Apollo unless he's really, really invested in it. Heaven forbid someone try to perform some kind of skullduggery with the relics being granted by someone like Mithra, who has Perception and Justice and The All-Seeing Eye and absolutely no tolerance for wacky hijinks.
But shoot, yeah, tricksters are pros at confusing and bedazzling their friends into doing things they didn't mean to do. Relic-granting is no more immune to that than any other activity, though it might require a little more creativity on their parts.
Saturday, March 30, 2013
Fucking Crazy: The Story of Eshu
Question: A few things. One, Eshu is awesome. Two, he's also a total sociopath. Three, why is he connected to the god of divination? Four, why have the others not DONE something about him? Five, are any of the OTHER first gods who are his siblings as bad as him? Six, Loki vs Eshu, who loses, Loki, Eshu, or the world?
ONE: We know, right?
TWO: Some gods just want to watch the world burn.
THREE: Eshu and Orunmila are inextricably linked in Yoruba mythology; they need each other and form an inseparable pair (well, inseparable except when Eshu is pranking the poor dude). Orunmila, as one of the sons closest to the great Olodumare and the undisputed holder of all the universe's wisdom from him, has all the divination, foresight and intelligence of the gods, but without Eshu, the master of the ways and keeper of communication, he can't share it with anyone. Because Eshu is the conduit between the gods and humanity, he's fundamentally necessary to any attempt for the two to communicate without gods actually showing up in person, which is why every Yoruba divination ceremony begins with an invocation of Eshu and ends with him offered due sacrifice along with whatever else the diviner required. Mythology paints the symbiotic relationship between the two in the story where Orunmila, at the beginning of time, knows everything but cannot share it with humanity, which as as a result is bumbling and failing hardcore in their attempts to fulfill their destinies. In return for Orunmila allowing him some of the glory and sacrifice of the rituals, Eshu strikes a deal with him that he will open the way between worlds for Orunmila's wisdom to flow down to the mortals who so sorely need it; he teaches him how to perform a divination ceremony so that mortals can understand what he's trying to tell them, and in return the first portion of all sacrifices now goes to Eshu. In places where Eshu's cult is particularly strong, sometimes the story even implies that Eshu was the first diviner himself and taught Orunmila how to see into the mysteries of Fate. Another myth explaining their co-dependence says that Eshu once tried to kill Orunmila in a fit of anger, but found that he was unable to do so because the two of them were so strongly bound together that they could never be parted, and nothing could kill one of them without killing the other.
Of course, Eshu's Eshu, so their partnership is one fraught with peril. If Eshu doesn't like what Orunmila wants to say in a divination, or is just feeling ornery that day, it's understood that he may sometimes garble or forge the message, causing mortals to believe that the god of divination gave them instructions that he distinctly did not. If Eshu doesn't feel like he's getting his fair share of the sacrifices and honors due Orunmila, he's prone to murder and brutal practical jokery, which even extends to Orunmila himself sometimes if the offense was particularly grave. And if Eshu is just being a dick that day, there's nothing much Orunmila can do; he's dependent on him to send his all-important divinations through to the people (and even other gods) who need them. On the other side of the coin, Eshu is fractious but never abandons his role entirely, because he can't stand losing that sweet, sweet sacrificial wine and meat.
FOUR: Unfortunately, nobody can really do anything about Eshu. Olodumare decreed that, despite his penchant for fucking everything up for everyone, Eshu is a necessary part of the universe, because someone has to be in charge of random chance, cruel whim and chaotic disagreement and they might as well all get used to it. He's one of the direct sons of the old creator god and has been around as long as there's been a pantheon, giving him precedence over basically everyone else except for Orunmila and Obatala. Because he's the keeper of the boundaries and paths between worlds, pissing Eshu off is a great way to get blockaded in your house or find that your travels always go wrong when you can least afford them to, and the gods themselves need the divinations that Eshu has so thoroughly made himself a part of, too. And, possibly most importantly, they're afraid of him - not necessarily in the "oh noes he might kill me" sort of way, but in the "he will fucking destroy everything I love and I'll never see it coming" way. It's similar to the way the old World of Darkness Ravnos vampires could get away with shit by threatening to start crime-waving over a city en masse if they were threatened; nobody wants to be the guy who takes Eshu's nuclear-grade "fun pranks" to the face and ends up destitute and miserable forever. It's illustrated best in a story wherein Shango is strutting around, preening like the big old peacock he is and crowing about how he could destroy any of the gods he chose and none of them could possibly challenge his might. Eshu looked up long enough to say, "Oh, yeah?", and Shango immediately said the most dignified and kingly version of "Well, of course not you, that would be ridiculous, we're best friends," and then hastily went home and probably took it out on his wives.
FIVE: It depends on what you mean by "as bad as". As far as pure psychotic tendency to just destroy things and people for no reason, no, Eshu really doesn't have any equal. Aganju's cranky and reclusive and will kill you if you go to his house, but he doesn't do things like going out of his way to kill a dude's wife because he accidentally sacrificed the wrong color of goat, and while Obatala has an unfortunate tendency toward being a lush, he's a model of compassionate goodwill compared to the trickster god. Oshumare, Orunmila and Oduduwa are similarly mostly benevolent, with only the last one showing any real signs of characteristic African god-insanity (mostly by making bad decisions about wars).
If you branch out to the gods of the next generation, Eshu isn't quite equalled, but there are some pretty acid-tripping bonkers other members of the pantheon there. Ogun is a textbook case of Guy Who Uses Riastrad Too Much and Kills All His Friends, Shango is a batshit insane despot who routinely conquers and pillages the countryside, kills himself and attempts to murder his family members, and Olokun has to be chained to the ocean floor to keep him from flooding the entire continent when he's in a bad mood. Really, the Yoruba were pretty worried about their gods, which is reflected in a lot of praise songs and prayers to them that tend to repeat lines like "Please don't kill me in my sleep" or "Please understand I respect you and don't need to be smited" a lot. Some of them are out of control.
SIX: The world loses. Loki and Eshu probably both win.
ONE: We know, right?
TWO: Some gods just want to watch the world burn.
THREE: Eshu and Orunmila are inextricably linked in Yoruba mythology; they need each other and form an inseparable pair (well, inseparable except when Eshu is pranking the poor dude). Orunmila, as one of the sons closest to the great Olodumare and the undisputed holder of all the universe's wisdom from him, has all the divination, foresight and intelligence of the gods, but without Eshu, the master of the ways and keeper of communication, he can't share it with anyone. Because Eshu is the conduit between the gods and humanity, he's fundamentally necessary to any attempt for the two to communicate without gods actually showing up in person, which is why every Yoruba divination ceremony begins with an invocation of Eshu and ends with him offered due sacrifice along with whatever else the diviner required. Mythology paints the symbiotic relationship between the two in the story where Orunmila, at the beginning of time, knows everything but cannot share it with humanity, which as as a result is bumbling and failing hardcore in their attempts to fulfill their destinies. In return for Orunmila allowing him some of the glory and sacrifice of the rituals, Eshu strikes a deal with him that he will open the way between worlds for Orunmila's wisdom to flow down to the mortals who so sorely need it; he teaches him how to perform a divination ceremony so that mortals can understand what he's trying to tell them, and in return the first portion of all sacrifices now goes to Eshu. In places where Eshu's cult is particularly strong, sometimes the story even implies that Eshu was the first diviner himself and taught Orunmila how to see into the mysteries of Fate. Another myth explaining their co-dependence says that Eshu once tried to kill Orunmila in a fit of anger, but found that he was unable to do so because the two of them were so strongly bound together that they could never be parted, and nothing could kill one of them without killing the other.
Of course, Eshu's Eshu, so their partnership is one fraught with peril. If Eshu doesn't like what Orunmila wants to say in a divination, or is just feeling ornery that day, it's understood that he may sometimes garble or forge the message, causing mortals to believe that the god of divination gave them instructions that he distinctly did not. If Eshu doesn't feel like he's getting his fair share of the sacrifices and honors due Orunmila, he's prone to murder and brutal practical jokery, which even extends to Orunmila himself sometimes if the offense was particularly grave. And if Eshu is just being a dick that day, there's nothing much Orunmila can do; he's dependent on him to send his all-important divinations through to the people (and even other gods) who need them. On the other side of the coin, Eshu is fractious but never abandons his role entirely, because he can't stand losing that sweet, sweet sacrificial wine and meat.
FOUR: Unfortunately, nobody can really do anything about Eshu. Olodumare decreed that, despite his penchant for fucking everything up for everyone, Eshu is a necessary part of the universe, because someone has to be in charge of random chance, cruel whim and chaotic disagreement and they might as well all get used to it. He's one of the direct sons of the old creator god and has been around as long as there's been a pantheon, giving him precedence over basically everyone else except for Orunmila and Obatala. Because he's the keeper of the boundaries and paths between worlds, pissing Eshu off is a great way to get blockaded in your house or find that your travels always go wrong when you can least afford them to, and the gods themselves need the divinations that Eshu has so thoroughly made himself a part of, too. And, possibly most importantly, they're afraid of him - not necessarily in the "oh noes he might kill me" sort of way, but in the "he will fucking destroy everything I love and I'll never see it coming" way. It's similar to the way the old World of Darkness Ravnos vampires could get away with shit by threatening to start crime-waving over a city en masse if they were threatened; nobody wants to be the guy who takes Eshu's nuclear-grade "fun pranks" to the face and ends up destitute and miserable forever. It's illustrated best in a story wherein Shango is strutting around, preening like the big old peacock he is and crowing about how he could destroy any of the gods he chose and none of them could possibly challenge his might. Eshu looked up long enough to say, "Oh, yeah?", and Shango immediately said the most dignified and kingly version of "Well, of course not you, that would be ridiculous, we're best friends," and then hastily went home and probably took it out on his wives.
FIVE: It depends on what you mean by "as bad as". As far as pure psychotic tendency to just destroy things and people for no reason, no, Eshu really doesn't have any equal. Aganju's cranky and reclusive and will kill you if you go to his house, but he doesn't do things like going out of his way to kill a dude's wife because he accidentally sacrificed the wrong color of goat, and while Obatala has an unfortunate tendency toward being a lush, he's a model of compassionate goodwill compared to the trickster god. Oshumare, Orunmila and Oduduwa are similarly mostly benevolent, with only the last one showing any real signs of characteristic African god-insanity (mostly by making bad decisions about wars).
If you branch out to the gods of the next generation, Eshu isn't quite equalled, but there are some pretty acid-tripping bonkers other members of the pantheon there. Ogun is a textbook case of Guy Who Uses Riastrad Too Much and Kills All His Friends, Shango is a batshit insane despot who routinely conquers and pillages the countryside, kills himself and attempts to murder his family members, and Olokun has to be chained to the ocean floor to keep him from flooding the entire continent when he's in a bad mood. Really, the Yoruba were pretty worried about their gods, which is reflected in a lot of praise songs and prayers to them that tend to repeat lines like "Please don't kill me in my sleep" or "Please understand I respect you and don't need to be smited" a lot. Some of them are out of control.
SIX: The world loses. Loki and Eshu probably both win.
Monday, December 24, 2012
Party Time! Excellent!
Question: Veles, the Baron and Loki force the mortal world to entertain them with a festival devoted to them. What kind of crazy consequences do you think this would have? Also, would you think a pantheon tied to honoring deceased gods though songs and festivals would be valid concept for a new pantheon and PSP?
Wait, Veles started a giant mortal festival party and didn't invite Radegast? That's about to get awkward.
I'd imagine such a festival would be the usual; for the gods, the only real danger would be Fatebonds incurred while setting it up, or possibly during it if they happened to show up in person. For mortals, it would probably involve a lot of shenanigans and carnival-esque games and pranks, as well as a lot of alcohol and food. One of those hungover, I-regret-my-religion moments for everyone the next day.
It'd actually be interesting as an experiment, because, like many things in Scion, it would be something that's never happened before. Veles, Loki and the Baron are all parts of very different religions, so by setting up a festival in their joint honor, they'd be merging themselves weirdly and probably confusing a lot of mortals. The festival's flavor would probably vary wildly depending on where they did it, who the mortals were and how many of them were already members of one god or another's religion, and whose personality emerged more strongly. Mortals would likely interpret the two gods they didn't recognize as some heretofore unknown god of their own religion - ah, of course, the mighty Loa Loke! - or perhaps invent an entirely new religion around the three, believing them to be their own pantheon. It would depend a lot on what the gods caused those mortals to believe; left to their own devices, they'd have to try to figure out what was happening on their own.
As for creating an ancestor festival PSP, I think that could definitely work; ancestor worship has a strong presence across the world but is mostly unrepresented in Scion at the moment, which relies on the Death purview for anything having to do with the spirits of the honored dead. However, the important part about designing a PSP is that is needs to be the core concept of a pantheon's religion or theme; it can't just be something they kind of do but that everyone else does, too. You need it to be iconic for the pantheon the same way blood sacrifice is for the Aztlanti or geasa for the Tuatha, so your PSP should really only be about ancestor festivals if your pantheon's most central and important concept is the worship of the dead through festivals. This pantheon should be presiding over a religion with regular ancestor sacrifice, communication and celebration as the most important thing it does; if that's the case, then this PSP makes perfect sense, but if that's really only a kind of fringe thing they do occasionally, it might not be strong enough to be the foundation of a PSP.
A pantheon that is all about drawing power or giving thanks to previous generations - to a degree even stronger than the many religions that already include ancestor worship - would definitely be a very cool concept to build on. It's especially appropriate for Scion, since any new gods who were once Scions have a whole universe of other gods and ancestors who have gone before them that it couldn't hurt to make friends with.
Wait, Veles started a giant mortal festival party and didn't invite Radegast? That's about to get awkward.
I'd imagine such a festival would be the usual; for the gods, the only real danger would be Fatebonds incurred while setting it up, or possibly during it if they happened to show up in person. For mortals, it would probably involve a lot of shenanigans and carnival-esque games and pranks, as well as a lot of alcohol and food. One of those hungover, I-regret-my-religion moments for everyone the next day.
It'd actually be interesting as an experiment, because, like many things in Scion, it would be something that's never happened before. Veles, Loki and the Baron are all parts of very different religions, so by setting up a festival in their joint honor, they'd be merging themselves weirdly and probably confusing a lot of mortals. The festival's flavor would probably vary wildly depending on where they did it, who the mortals were and how many of them were already members of one god or another's religion, and whose personality emerged more strongly. Mortals would likely interpret the two gods they didn't recognize as some heretofore unknown god of their own religion - ah, of course, the mighty Loa Loke! - or perhaps invent an entirely new religion around the three, believing them to be their own pantheon. It would depend a lot on what the gods caused those mortals to believe; left to their own devices, they'd have to try to figure out what was happening on their own.
As for creating an ancestor festival PSP, I think that could definitely work; ancestor worship has a strong presence across the world but is mostly unrepresented in Scion at the moment, which relies on the Death purview for anything having to do with the spirits of the honored dead. However, the important part about designing a PSP is that is needs to be the core concept of a pantheon's religion or theme; it can't just be something they kind of do but that everyone else does, too. You need it to be iconic for the pantheon the same way blood sacrifice is for the Aztlanti or geasa for the Tuatha, so your PSP should really only be about ancestor festivals if your pantheon's most central and important concept is the worship of the dead through festivals. This pantheon should be presiding over a religion with regular ancestor sacrifice, communication and celebration as the most important thing it does; if that's the case, then this PSP makes perfect sense, but if that's really only a kind of fringe thing they do occasionally, it might not be strong enough to be the foundation of a PSP.
A pantheon that is all about drawing power or giving thanks to previous generations - to a degree even stronger than the many religions that already include ancestor worship - would definitely be a very cool concept to build on. It's especially appropriate for Scion, since any new gods who were once Scions have a whole universe of other gods and ancestors who have gone before them that it couldn't hurt to make friends with.
Subscribe to:
Posts (Atom)