Sunday, November 24, 2013

Eye of the Tiger

Question: Could a single Animal Feature count for two or more abilities, assuming that you pay the requisite Legend and the connection makes sense (example, Eagle eyes adding to both Awareness and Marksmanship, or a wolf nose adding to Investigation and Survival)?

Yes, but also no. Really, it's a Storyteller call that depends entirely on what you're doing and why.

If you have an idea for different Animal Features that are in some way unique, interesting and fun and want them pseudo-combined because it makes for cool flavor, that is totally doable. Maybe one of your eyes adds to Awareness and the other to Marksmanship, and they look slightly different for stunting awesomeness; maybe you want to grow two separate extra rows of teeth to grant you Brawl and Presence because you're terrifying and dangerous. That kind of things's fine, especially as you gain more Animal boons and therefore need to come up with more features, and especially at god-level if you have Bestial Nature and have already filled up some of those "slots" with permanent animal parts.

What's not doable is when features are combined in such a way as to allow the Scion to overall be less animalistic. If you're trying to add all your Animal Feature bonuses to a single thing - like your nose, or one of your hands or something - then you're clearly acting counter to the spirit of the boon and the Animal purview as a whole by attempting to gain all its benefits while not actually becoming very animal-like. You get those benefits because you're more like an animal, not in spite of it, so trying to weasel out of being critter-like because it's socially smarter or easier to hide that way won't cut it. You're in training to be a god of animals; you don't get to confine all your animal-ness to a tail that you hide in your pants all the time anyway. That's a fundamental failure at the point of the boon, which is to draw upon the beast-like nature of your powers to enhance your performance.

It's also no fun if you're just combining features because you can't think of any other feature to use, or because you're avoiding tarnishing an "image" of yourself that doesn't include creature parts. If your mental image of what your character should be like can't include animal body parts, you probably need to rethink your decision to invest in the Animal purview at all - what are you even doing with it, in that case? If you only took it because you wanted the sweet bonuses, suck it up and start picking some features to claw or fur or scale up. If you took it because you want to be the commander-of-beasts kind of animal god instead of the embodier of their animal nature, that's totally fine, but that boils down to a roleplaying decision; if you want to appear as more human at a particular moment for whatever reason, don't use the boons that make you more animalistic right then. Just like the folks with Sun sometimes don't use their powers because being lit up like a runway can be inconvenient or counter to what they're doing, you may not always be able to conveniently animalize yourself without attracting notice. If you legitimately aren't sure what other part of you would make a good choice, or you have a really hard-to-use animal (like Jellyfish, for example), getting together with the Storyteller or other players can help spark new ideas.

Basically, this is a rule-of-awesomeness moment: if you're doing it because it's awesome, then yes. If you're doing it for any other reason - it's more convenient, it's less noticeable, you don't really like Animal but you do like dice bonuses, or anything else - then no. The Animal purview is about animals, not dice, regardless of how some powers are mechanically represented in the system. If you don't want to be involved in animal stuff, you don't want this purview.

So for your examples, we might allow the eyes, if you had a cool reason why each individual eye was doing something different, but not the nose, which is a clear example of double-dipping with no enhancement from having both "features" in the same place. As a general rule, we encourage players to choose very different features for each bonus unless the animal in question gives them a reason not to, so most of the time eyes, hands, ears and other paired organs or body parts are considered one "feature" together.

29 comments:

  1. This one of the many questions I often submit suspecting the answer prior but that I ask anyway because maybe I'll be surprised or, more likely, you'll have some different insights into the matter

    This also answers a followup I had in waiting, which is, whether one feature could be both a Bestial Nature and an Animal Feature.

    I will say that with my characters, it's never a matter of not wanting to be quite so animalistic. I play characters who don Animal Features so often that their peers would look twice if they DIDN'T have about 5 features or so bleeding in. No, if there's a problem, it revolves around running out of Features. As in "there's not much left on Alan that ISN'T a jaguar part" (or, potentially, a mix-n-match chimera of several species' parts).

    I know that there's the "half total Animal Boons" limit making 10 the maximum, but that raises another question: When you choose an Ability association for an Animal Feature... let's say, a wolf's snout for Survival, since it helps the Scion hunt... does that mean that that feature is always associated with that one Ability forever? In another scene, if I need Investigation for a roll, can I say "Oh, the snout's investigation this time around"?

    (Most of this is academic, since the games I participate in tend not to follow your rules that closely anyway)

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    1. Bestial Nature gets to a neat place where it's god-level so we're cool with stuff that isn't strictly "natural" happening. For example, Eztli has permanent bat wings from Bestial Nature; when she also blows Animal Feature for wings, which she's had for a long time, she gains wing-tissue along her arms, giving her two sets of wings in flight if she also flaps her arms. We'd also consider stuff like an extra row of teeth or claws beyond normal fingers if a character needed two "claw" features from stacking the two things, or maybe a tail that is abnormally long as a result of stacking two tail features - stuff like that.

      Mostly just for BN + AF, not double AF, though. We like to reserve that kind of crazysauce for god-level stuff.

      Actually, we do permanently assign features from AF; our players have lists on their sheets that say things like "Spider Eyes (Awareness), Urticating Hairs (Fortitude)" and so on (Eztli's sheet is a good example, on page 2). I don't know that it's 100% necessary, and it doesn't really hurt game balance to mix and match, but we like the continuity of a Scion using the same animal bits to do similar tasks.

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    2. As long as you didnt go over your allowable amount of features, you could have snout for everyone. Would be much less useful, cause you couldnt use it with something else, but would be fine.

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    3. The wings don't actually mention what they do, and Eztli has Sky out the wazoo... Do they contribute to flight speed or some such?

      And it is good to know that Bestial Nature can stack, often looking crazy when doing so. Speaking of which, what do Eztli's "stars" under BN signify?

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    4. Wings have a use of their own - flying - so that's all they did originally. Now that she has permanent BN wings for flying, I believe we commuted that to giving her a normal feature bonus, but I forget what it is. (Guess I should have pointed you to a character sheet that was updated...)

      Poor Eztli - somehow, probably from hanging out with that guy who has Sun all the time, her Fatebonds latched onto the idea that she ought to have Stars and have bought her from zero to ten. She's morally opposed to stars, but one of her BN features still applies to Stars boons, which she uses primarily for shutting down actual Stars-related things (especially turning off Red Stars/Celestial Beacons or breaking Webs of Stars).

      We're all kind of on eggshells, because at some point someone in the Teotl is going to notice that she's kind of a God of Stars and then things will probably get nasty.

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    5. ...oh. That's a typo. It's supposed to say Claws (Stars).

      /lifequit

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  2. Does this mean that the most human-looking gods who also have the animal purview just don't use Bestial Nature? The greek gods come to mind first when I ask this. They seem all about being human perfection and reject dudes like Pan for having animal features. Would a greek scion who uses Bestial Nature to become a "mix-n-match chimera of several species' parts" face serious censure from the pantheon?

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    1. Possibly, yeah. There's a reason most of the Greek gods don't have maximum Animal; it's not something they, as a pantheon, lean toward. Greek ideals are very heavily skewed toward the beautiful perfection of the human form, so suddenly sprouting a tail or weird ears usually doesn't endear you to them.

      Of course, maybe you can be the first Scion covered in animal bits in history that they think is totally cool, but you have a lot of prejudice to overcome first. :)

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    2. Greeks, you will need SO many socials to overcome the stigma. Tons of positive App and either Cha or Man, preferably both. Else you're a pariah

      Course if you were Egyptian or Aztec then you'd fit right in.

      I would say that, depending on the feature in question, you might get off easy. Wings or eyes or an internal organ (Ares making his larynx wolf like to get a Command bonus as he... barks out orders)

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    3. When you say that what about people like Triton....Who is the king of the Mer folk. He is represented almost everywhere with a Fish tail. I figure he can change it back to human legs at a whim but i dont think they would look down on him for it. considering he is a weel respected sea god and Poseidons Favorite Scion (per the book)

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    4. Technically speaking, Triton isn't a Scion. He's the son of Poseidon and Amphitrite and therefore an automatic God. Also, Triton is not an Olympian. His presence and power are limited to his father's court. Any 'respect' given to by the Olympian Gods him is more akin to what a diplomat would get, because of his position as his father's herald. I doubt any of the Olympians would bother interacting with him in a non-official manner, and as far as I know, no myth of any interaction exists. He's probably given respect in hte court of the water gods, but that court is made up of former Titanspawn and lesser immortals like the many water nymphs and the Old Men of the Sea, who do not hold Olympian mores.

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    5. Per Greek mythology, Triton is a god rather than a Scion, son of Poseidon and Amphitrite with no human blood in sight. ;) Considering his parentage, he was probably born pretty fishy in the first place.

      But he gets around the issue by being a strictly ocean god - he doesn't go to Olympus at any point, or interact with anyone who doesn't come down to hang out in Poseidon's kingdom (not many people do - Athena's the only one who comes to mind).

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    6. Ha! Samudra jumped in and said the same thing like a second before I did!

      I will add that he does serve as foster father to Athena (who promptly kills his real daughter in a scuffle, because Greeks), but that's the only time I know of that he interacts with any Olympians other than his father, and Athena comes to live with him, leaving Olympus out of it.

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  3. All this talk of Triton is making me think...Poseidon has The Beast and I know you guys have a policy where any God has all the Boons of any Purview he's associated with (your Fatebond system wouldn't allow anything else in fact) so, I was wondering:what is Poseidon's Bestial Nature feature? Greek mythology paints him as fully human, unlike his son.

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    1. I think that's the potential social problem that sparked the above thread - Greeks with the Beast and how they might or might not be able to BN without being sneered at by their friends. :)

      It's possible that he just doesn't use it, because it's not worth taking the hit to his social status that wandering around with beasty bits would entail. He also might use it for less than obvious stuff - for example, the phrase "hung like a horse" might not be entirely poetic for him, especially considering his sexual exploits. (Yikes.)

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    2. You could also monkey around a bit with Greek gods not using it in the past because they dislike it, but being forced to use it for the power boost now that they're fighting Titans, and what kinds of shifts in their social structure might be happening or repercussions those specific gods might be suffering as a result.

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    3. Actually, that leads me to a related question...if Fatebonds buy Bestial Nature for a Scion, then does he chose the feature, or does Fate choose it for him?

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    4. Fatebonds only buy the boon; they don't activate it. Once a Scion has it, he can always choose to never spend the permanent Willpower and never get any BN features.

      If he did spend it, though, he would choose the feature, the same way he does for the lower-level Animal Feature. :)

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    5. Yeah, for greeks especially...that loss of perm willpower is dangerous....he may just never feel it worth the risk.

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    6. Ah, of course, I forgot that the Boon has to be activated :)
      That clears up a lot.

      Also, I'm not sure I even want to know what Purview he's augmenting with that particular appendage.

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    7. ... "Did the Earth move for you too?"

      I apologize for that

      Though this does give me another possibility... does a Bestial Nature have to be an external body part? Could it be internal? For example, Alan's Integrity Animal Feature was a jaguar heart...

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    8. Also, can't you buy back spent Willpower dots?

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    9. Not if you have the animal still up. You can only buy the willpower back after you turn it off(permanently). But also...thats a lot of xp.

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    10. Internal's okay by me, as long as it's not being used as a cop-out to avoid being animalish. One of Sangria's is thinner, hollower bones like a bat's to add to her maneuverability with Athletics.

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  4. Thank you for the Triton info but do you think Triton would potentially be able to change his fish body to human? cause at least in the Scion books he is the one who visits Poseidons Scions. Kinda hard to do that if they arent in the water and if he can do that he potentially could interact with Olympians if he so chooses....right?(story wise not current myth wise)

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    1. With the right Epic Appearance, sure. But he'll lose the Bestial Nature bonus.

      Anne's answer to the topic is here: http://johnsscionresources.blogspot.in/2013/05/the-nature-of-beast.html

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    2. I meant 'right Epic Appearance Knacks'. Sorry.

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