Question: Would things that are not music be appropriate for Theme Music? Sounds like the pounding of rain, or ominous silence, or the Jason Voorhees "Chu Chu Chu Ah Ah Ah"?
Generally, I would say no. Theme Music has a very specific purpose, and it's playing music that's appropriate to your character. Sounds like your suggestions are ones that it's very easy to just duplicate yourself (with Sky boons, Illusion, Shroud of Silence, or even just by mundane means), and they don't have the same sort of impact actual music would have. They have a different impact, certainly, depending on how they're used, but they're not really within Theme Music's purview.
However, I'd also note that music is, however, extremely wide-ranging in what it includes, and that the internet will probably find you an instrumental song that's heavy on rain noises or a percussion piece featuring long stretches of silence just as it could find you more common Theme Music choices like AC/DC. Film scores are a great place to look for music that's evocative without being intrusive (and if you want creepiness and long stretches of silence, horror films are particularly great for this), and ethnic music from different parts of the world can not only give you a sound closer to what you're looking for but also tie into your Scion's culture. For example, we've been talking about Eztli getting this insane-sounding indigenous Aztec music for her Theme Music, much of which sounds to a modern American ear like random ominous noise; you can be as creative about the music you choose as you want (though it would be nice for whatever you choose to be something you can play for everyone to hear, rather than existing only in your own head).
I'd actually be quite surprised if someone out there hasn't sampled the Jason Vorhees sound effects into a piece of music.
I've been in three separate games with three separate storytellers, and in every single game there was always a different character who had a relic or follower who would play their theme music all the time.
ReplyDeleteThe only time they would not play the music was during stealth missions.
That sounds horrible. I wouldnt allow that at all. The consequences of that would be astronomical.
DeleteIt actually was not too annoying since in every single case people just kind of tuned it out and forgot there was constant music. The benefits of the knack are too huge to tell them to cut it out IC. It just made me a sad panda.
DeleteThere was one funny scene with two people in the same game having it, and both of them trying to top the other by making their music louder than the other until the building we were in started shattering.
No, turning it out is bullshit. The whole purpose of it is that you CANNOT tune it out. If you can tune it out, the knack has failed. If it was on all the time people should be annoyed as shit by it. And gods would hate it. If you came into my house and blasted your own music....probably gonna kill you. Maybe you could use it as your entrance theme. But...thats probably where I'd draw the line. Not to mention that other music couldnt exist at the same time....so people with expression should be freaking out.
DeleteAgreeing with John immensely on this one. I would HATE HATE HATE someone who had their theme music always playing. When I first started storytelling Scion, I outlawed the Theme Music knack completely. Eventually I came to realize how IMPORTANT music is for mythology...Gods have hymns, Operas have scores, Movies have soundtracks...and one of my more reasonable players came up with a compromise - Theme Music ONLY for those moments where it's appropriate. Epic moments. Power-up scenes, critical moments of influence, that sort of stuff. You're welcome to play your Theme Music whenever you like but Zeus might throw a lightningbolt at you to make you shut up. :)
DeleteTheme Music is like Animal Aspect on steroids, costing only 2 legend and giving successes as bonus dice to three different attributes for an entire scene.
DeleteThere is a problem with getting annoyed at people with theme music. Their charisma, manipulation, and appearance just went through the roof so you suddenly cannot be annoyed at them.
If you were anywhere near their power level then they just beat your resistance score without blinking. You could spend resources to resist of course but then you would have to make the same roll again 5 ticks later. and 5 ticks after that.
The only people who can really shut down someone with Theme Music are moon users and people who are dramatically more powerful like the Zeus that was mentioned.
Animal Aspect is potentially a lot more powerful for a single attribute because it's a roll - you're getting extra successes from dice, plus you can spend resources to beef your roll up even higher. Theme Music doesn't have those options, but it affects all three Attributes, though, so that's a very nice tradeoff depending on what you want to do.
DeleteTheme Music can't be ignored, but that doesn't mean you have to love it. Resentment or jealousy of that person's ability to get attention or the awesome music that follows them around are just as legitimate responses to it as enjoyment or interest. The music will still affect you, but how you roleplay it is, as always, up to the individual character. It's a lot more likely that you'll think that person is awesome because Theme Music is generally awesome, but it's not ironclad.
John's not talking about people at the same level, though; our PCs are very careful about using Theme Music around gods or significantly more powerful beings, because they can and do get irritated by it, especially if it happens to be music that carries an insulting message for the situation. Sowiljr's a good example; there are times when "How You Like Me Now?" is not a good idea when he's trying to make nice with powerful gods.
Theme Music is actually not resistable; it's a power that is affecting the Scion who uses it by making him more awesome, so it's not something targeting others that they need to resist. (If it were resistable, you would be able to roll to resist it once for the scene, I imagine. But it's not.)
For 2 legend I basically gain Arete in Charisma, Manipulation, and Appearance for an entire scene? And all I have to do is try not to annoy people?
DeleteSign me up!
Perhaps you havnt met "annoying people in mythology" it involves pan getting skinned alive and Susan-o getting kicked out of heaven for eternity.
DeleteSounds like a really great plot for a bunch of characters to deal with.
DeleteI'd just suggest an alternate knack that plays your own sound effects. Though I don't see why such a cosmetic thing needs two knacks. I'd let Theme Music do both.
ReplyDeleteI just dont see a reason to. Music is so iconic as something that brings people together and draws the audience to the musician. Pied piper, apollo, sirens call. Noises are just noises. They specifically dont do the things that humans thing of as theme music, and they generally arent connected to a charismatic being. If they are, they are because of something that person actually does(raiden and thunder) and not their charisma powers.
DeleteOdd, I had toyed with the idea of a knack to do certain non-visual "ambiance-type" sensations that surround a Scion (Raiden/thunder and others), probably as a specialized Appearance knack. It would cover your standard nonvisual sensations-- while you're in the presence of the character with that knack, maybe you experience the crawly feeling on the back of your neck, or the scent of a god's patron flower, or whatever-- with radius/intensity affected by Epic Appearance score.
DeleteI wouldn't base it on Theme Music (because it's a totally different sort of thing); it's interesting to see that sort of stuff get brought up here.
Ooh, now I like that idea. We do have scents already covered in Chameleon in Appearance, but I really like this idea.
DeleteAlmost all of those can be covered by Unusual Alteration as long as it does not give you any kind of mechanical benefit.
DeleteYou could make yourself look like living lightning, or have tiny storm clouds follow you around, or turn into a magma monster that cannot melt the floor, or emit curious sound effects. Heck, you could even turn yourself into a giant walking violin and then play your own theme music when it was appropriate.
But some of that leans towards the comical, which you may want to avoid.
Hmm, some agreements and some not so much. I wouldn't let Unusual Alteration create storm clouds to follow you around - they're not something you could reasonably fashion of your physical self that way, and should be relegated to Sky. You could, however, give yourself electricity glands like an eel or something like that; you could also have hair that grew so that it looked like clouds around your face, or skin that was lightning-patterned (even moving!). Similarly, you could not turn yourself into a magma monster; that's what Fire/Earth do. You could make yourself magma-colored, or even have runny, gross pus coming off you, and you could probably make yourself look pretty convincingly melty and gross, but you would not be able to give off heat past the point of what makes sense for a body to do. The point of Unusual Alteration is to let you make cosmetic effects with your appearance; if it's overriding or interfering with elemental purviews, it's being used in a way that it wasn't intended.
DeleteThere's definitely potential for sound effects if you give yourself flute-like holes or pluckable guts or the like. I could definitely see especially ghoulishly negative Appearanced folks finding that entertaining!
I do not think Unusual Alteration is limited to what you can reasonably fashion. "Whether they are within the realm of human imagination or so fantastic that they defy description."
DeleteSo you should be able to create little storm clouds above your shoulders, but they would have no mechanical benefit at all. That is the single most important thing about Unusual Alteration in my opinion. It cannot be mechanically beneficial.
I mean, you could turn yourself into a cloud with Unusual Alteration but you would still take physical damage like a normal person, and you could not fly. Pure cosmetic, no mechanics.
Turn yourself into a cloud, yes! Create other free-floating clouds around you, no. Unusual Alteration is for changing yourself, not creating random atmospheric effects; creating anything happening around you is what Illusion is for, not Appearance. Appearance can be as fantastic as you can imagine, but it's limited to your appearance, not the appearance of things nearby.
DeleteDoes Unusual Alteration have the limitation of not being able to create parts of yourself that are free floating around other parts of yourself (provided they are not too far away)?
DeleteCould you not use Unusual Alteration to turn into a circle of nine floating heads that always remain equidistant from each other? (provided the floating was just cosmetic)?
Could you not use Unusual Alteration to recreate one of the nifty creatures from http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m44HWtQ-y6A&feature=fvwrel ?
Nope. Probably not. I mean maybe, but you'd take tons of damage doing it. Also those obviously are titany.
Delete9 floating heads, probably not. That would make you 10 things...and you're not. You are 1 thing. I guess thats the important difference. You are 1 thing, not many things. If you separate parts of you from yourself, thats what damage is.
Maybe a 1 legend cost alternative on theme music that generates sound effects. You know, to create your own backup band for your own divine art performances.
ReplyDeleteJust replyed above with an answer that kind answers this as well. It seems like something of convenience for the player, and bends toward the comical instead of something that the system actually needs.
DeleteMy big problem with theme music is that I feel like I need to have it to be good at manipulation or appearance.
ReplyDeleteThe people in my party with charisma get so many dice to manipulation and appearance that they average more successes than me, and I have those stats maxed.
What legend are you playing? Are they also good at manipulation AND appearance? We dont have anyone that your statement would work for.
DeleteWe're legend 7. I'm an aztec with itzli, manipulation, and appearance maxed, and I throw 14+16. Someone else has charisma maxed but manipulation and appearance at 5/4, aurora, and theme music. She throws 34+7. A third person has maxed charisma with the other socials at 3/0 but he has theme music, politics arete, and presence arete so he throws 42+0 on a lot of his rolls.
DeleteSo they tie me without even trying to be great at the thing I am trying to be great at. I know the itztli isn't helping me, but I feel like I have to get animal or theme music or something to be the best in the group at manipulation and appearance!
In fact, I got opening act so I could be useful and help them out on their charisma stuff. But it turns out they get more successes than me on manipulation and appearance stuff if I opening act them and let them take the spotlight :(
DeleteAh, I see. That can definitely be frustrating - Greeks are such fucking cheaters. For a long time, Goze was technically a much better brawler than Sangria thanks to Arete (but he was afraid of getting beaten up, so that mostly didn't result in him stealing much of the combat spotlight).
DeleteI think you need to look at what other tools are at your disposal; if your goal is to be better at socials than everyone else, what things can you do to foster that? It sounds like everyone else isn't competing with you for social spotlight as much as they just happen to have skills that can situationally boost them over you - what are your boosting skills? Why don't you have any? The investment in Epic Attributes is definitely an important (probably THE most important) part of being the best at a particular facet of the band's skills, but if they're also investing XP in other things that buff them at those things, it only makes sense that they'll also be able to do things.
If it were only a skill or two that made them able to beat you, as a socially maxed character, then you'd be right, that'd be broken. But Scion is full of skills that boost social rolls, and of course if someone has several of them - like your friend with Theme Music + lots of XP sunk into Arete - they're going to be able to compete with you if you don't pick any up. There are so many that taking none of them doesn't make much sense; if your goal is to be the best at social things, it's a little confusing to me why you wouldn't try to make that happen in more ways than just buying base stats. Combat characters are buying knacks and boons to enhance their performance; why should socials be different?
At Legend 7, any of the following can help you with your social badassness:
Animal Aspect
Animal Feature
Aurora
Bona Fortuna
Faunaphagia
Fortune Favors the Bold
Lucky Star
Pheromones
Search for a Sign
Theme Music
And there will be more options as you continue to go up in Legend. I'm wondering more why you don't have or use any of these things - how is this different from combat characters getting, say, Colossus Armor to help themselves, or intelligence characters rocking out Animal Aspect to enhance their brains? Die adders are a normal part of the game - is there a specific reason you're avoiding them?
DeleteAs an Aztec, the lack of a PSP that aids in socials is frustrating, but it can also be a blesing in disguise; other Scions probably can't afford to have, say, Animal Aspect up all the time to be combat badasses, but you have the ability to hemorrhage Legend for your own purposes whenever you have the opportunity to replace it.
Also, have you considered looking into relic bonuses? If you don't have any now, your character might realize she needs more juice and decide to find some, or take some other initiative. The bottom line is that Scion is full of ways to boost all stats, not just social ones - having the Epic foundation is the most important part of excelling, but if it's all you do, you're not making a full effort at being a super master of your area. And maybe that's okay - I'm sure there are other things your character is and does that are unique to her, so maybe she doesn't need to excel the most over everyone at socials. But if you want her to, consider ways you can get there; running totally vanilla always means you run the risk of someone with a lot of buffs matching or exceeding you, no matter what attribute you're focusing on.
It feels like a lot of power creep has happened to Scion. If we look at the core three books there are very few effects that add bonus dice outside of the holy trinity of Animal/Arete/Helpful Spirit.
DeleteSo having a maxed out epic attribute was like getting your college degree. It really made you good at the thing you wanted to be good at.
These days it feels like there are so many ways to boost everything that having a maxed out epic attribute is the bare minimum to contribute.
Which is kind of dirty pool since we're actually competing for bragging rights against our fellow players! It doesn't matter if someone can throw around 10 dice or 100 dice, because the storyteller will balance around it.
I will include things that take away from rolls as well because they are just the reverse of adding dice. Balance-wise, adding defense just means you need something else that adds offense.
DeleteExhaustive list:
Untouchable opponent
Damage Conversion
Body Armor
Takes one to know one(adding this cause it makes an entire attribute completely useless single handedly. No amount of dice can beat this knack)
Lasting Impression
Subliminal warning
Tidal Interference
Phase Cloak
Storm Augmentation
Divine Radiance
Heavenly Flare
Battle Cry
Warrior Ideal
Water Control
Ok, I got bored. It continues like this through the next 2 books getting more and more powerful. Annes comments about war above are incredibly valid.
There have always been powers that add or subtract from your dice(remember if you can subtract dice or make something harder you need a way for an opponent to make up for this gap).
I see a maxed attribute more like finishing 1 class on your way to your degree.
But there have always been tons of ways to "buff" yourself.
Well, when you add in things like dice removers and passive buffs instead of things that add actual dice I can see what you mean. I just wish that epic attributes really meant something, but I suppose even in the first three books they didn't mean much.
DeleteThey do mean a lot - trust me, you can have Theme Music all day, but if you have only one Epic Charisma to someone else's seven, that doesn't mean very much on its own. It's just that they're not the only thing that means something. Like most of Scion's powers, they don't exist in a vacuum (which I think is pretty cool, because you get to experiment with combinations instead of everyone just buying one stat).
DeleteI'm not trying to avoid dice adders but I don't know much about the game (I am learning as I go, though). When I bought a bunch of manipulation and appearance I just thought I was buying two social stats and that they would work together and I would be really powerful socially. Except for the reroll part it turns out they don't. At least not like charisma and arete, or charisma and stars. If I had gone charisma and manipulation instead I probably wouldn't need to buy something else.
DeleteFrom what you listed, it looks like magic might be my best best. We don't have enough experience to buy many things, but I think I can afford fortune favors the bold (since it uses manipulation) and bona fortuna. Thank you!