Question: Why is Brigid not a god with Artistry as an associated purview? For that matter, why does she not have ANY associated purviews? If the implication is that she is not as important/powerful of a god in that pantheon, then that seems strange, seeing as how she is still venerated under the name of St. Brigid. Just curious.
Hey, friend! We've covered this one before (Brigid is so popular, it comes up a lot!), so check out previous discussions about Brigid and her saintly syncretizations here and here. The short version of it is that, in Irish mythology, Brigid is almost a non-entity; she barely appears and does nothing of real consequence, and is clearly far less important to the myths than pretty much everyone else. She marries Bres to legitimize him as ruler of the Tuatha; when he goes rogue, it's said that she fights with the Tuatha instead of with him; and when her son Ruadan is killed, she invents the art of keening. And that is literally the sum total of all the things Brigid ever does in Irish mythology. She is at about the same level as folks like Sif or Hebe when it comes to not being particularly important.
As for Artistry, we are super excited about it being in the world now for gods and Scions to use, but we don't want to give it to every god who wanders by with a passing familiarity with crafts. For those who aren't doing anything special with it, it's likely they have some levels of Artistry but not the whole purview, or even just a good number of dots of Art. Brigid is said to be the patron of metalworkers, but she never does anything even remotely related to it in any story, so she's not rocking the Avatar alongside people like Hephaestus or Brahma.
Why is Brigid so popular?
ReplyDeleteShe's a very popular deity in modern Wicca, so I think that may have something to do with it.
Deleteoh that explains it. I've just heard you and John both saying that Brigid was such an unimportant deity for more than a year now and yet somehow she still keeps getting brought up. (I'd never heard of her before Scion, so I always wondered if she was on a TV show or in a book or something.)
DeleteShe's in LOTS of TV shows and books, actually. She has probably the most pop-culture name recognition of any Celtic God... maybe Morrigan has more or about the same?
DeleteIve....never heard of her in a tv show or book, outside of BS new age fake mythos stuff.
DeleteOr people just copying modern wicca i guess.
DeleteI've heard of The Morrigan way more than Brigid. Again, besides it being a common girl's name (which could probably be attributed more to the Saint than the Goddess) I have never heard of Brigid before Scion.
DeleteOf the Tuatha, the only ones I'd ever heard of pop-culturally would be The Dagda and The Morrigan. I'd heard of Lugh too, but only because I was in a production of "Dancing at Lughnasa" in High School.
It's probably a regional thing. Around here there is nobody who has not heard of Brigid. I think those of us from Europe have a very different level of mythical exposure than people in America. Not more or less, just different.
DeleteMaybe, but in the modern era that isnt really an excuse for anything. Anything you can read in europe we can have access to. Between us we can read at least 4-5 of the European languages as well.
DeleteYes, but it tends to influence the way people view things and prioritize them. You can read anything now, but the way you were raised as a child has a lot to do with your biases and which subjects you put more time and effort researching these days.
DeleteSure...but this is the thing we put all our energy and effort into researching. Biases dont change facts.
DeleteThey change what you think the facts mean; ask any anthropologist. :)
DeleteFacts are facts. Oddly a few google searches about facts changing meaning based on where you grew up dont seem to give any useful links.
DeleteI often talk with people from japan though, and they tell me that in japan, when an apple falls from a tree, it falls upwards towards the sun instead of towards the ground. They also say that the roman empire still exists today and rules most of europe....wait...they dont say those things...cause they arent true....thats right.
Can I also point out that these biases really shouldn't matter within the context of Scion anyway? I mean, look at Samudra for example - he's told us on more than one occasion that Durga is considered the most important goddess in his region and is highly venerated. You could argue that Durga is just Kali, or you could argue Durga is her own lower legend goddess. If she ISN'T Kali, then the same argument can be made for her - she is still venerated to this day, she is highly worshipped! Why isn't she up there with Brahma and Vishnu???
DeleteBecause, in the scheme of mythology, what the game is based off of, she isn't that great. A God or Goddess being widely worshiped, even if they are widely worshiped to this day, really should not effect their Legend level. Why? Because even a Legend 9 God or Goddess is STILL a God or Goddess. They still hold Heaven or Earth in their hands, failing to worship them is going to mean trouble, they are still completely worthy of worship. They just fall within a hierarchy of other polytheistic or henotheistic gods who are clearly more important and powerful than them.
And they have more stories. The game isn't "Ancient Religions: The Game" it's "Ancient Myths: The Game" and while these old myths were part of thriving religions, some of which still exist now, it's still the stories that the game revolves around.
So if all Brigid actually did in mythology was invent keening and marry Bres, then why should she be as important as Lugh who slew Balor and could do everything and fathered the greatest hero of the Irish and appears in like every Celtic mythology, or The Morrigan who appears in every myth doing some creepy all-knowing evil stuff? Because she has a holiday for herself?
Doesn't EVERY GOD HAVE A HOLIDAY though????
I don't know, maybe Brigid deserves more love, but I've got faith that if she really did all sorts of great amazing stuff, John and Anne would know about it.
Maybe you should get some sleep.
DeleteI'm from Britain, been to Ireland lots of times, never heard of Brigid other than the Catholic version :S
DeleteThe Catholic version is who I have been talking about, but it is pretty hard to tell one Anon from another Anon. :P
DeleteBlah blah blah brigid.....so tired of hearing about her.
ReplyDeleteWe could talk about Baron Samedi or Lugh if you would prefer? :D
DeleteYeah, she's very popular and important in Wicca. Her importance comes mostly from Imbolc, one of the eight sabbats. Imbolc is celebrated in honor of Brigid and marks the beginning of Spring. Its roots are in the old Gaelic festival of the same name and it was originally one of the four Gaelic seasonal festivals. Because its dedicated to Brigid, and is one of the most important sabbats, it obviously makes Brigid popular and well known within the Wiccan community. Similar to how Lugh is important through Lammas/Lughnasadh. Overall though, despite the lack of myths about her, the Gaels dedicated a festival in her honor, so I wouldn't be so quick to say she wasn't that important. She just doesn't play a role in that many myths which makes it hard to figure out exactly what she did, so I totally get why you guys don't use her.
ReplyDeleteBut I mean...can you find a citation for that that isnt new age BS? I understand a lot of books say that all that is true...but those books need to be based on actual citations....not just things modern people make up to prove their points.
DeleteThere's not as many resources for Imbolc as there are for the other three, but I'll see if I can find anything. Samhain, Beltane and Lughnasadh are easier to find information about. There are several books out there, but I don't have any unfortunately, and even non New Age websites seem like they rarely site their sources on the subject. Overall though, most of the knowledge of Imbolc comes from it later being Christianized as St. Brigid's Day, so that just goes back to that debate. We know it was celebrated, know that it marked the beginning of spring and know it had a connection to Brigid, but other than that its debated what originally was done.
DeleteWe'll see if we can dig up anything from the super library on Imbolc next time we're there.
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