Question: I'm running a Hero-level Scion game where several characters have been breaking all sorts of laws while still staying within their Virtues. I want them to encounter a Demigod who focuses on Justice and can deliver some righteousness on them if need be. However, they mainly focused on their Epic physicals and rarely if ever use Willpower or their Virtues. Is there really anything I can use against them besides Star Chamber?
First of all: we've heard you guys. Justice's low levels suck. We have put it on the giant list of Things That Need Fixing, and hope to do so sometime before the death of the universe. But in the meantime, let's look at what we can do here as a Demigod-level Scion.
To begin with, while not using Virtues might take some of the low-level Justice powers out of the game, bleeding Scions of their Willpower can still have a major impact. There are powers that cost Willpower, and even if they don't have any of those, having no Willpower will make them very prone to Virtue Extremity. Justice isn't the only thing that can de-Willpower a Scion; your just-beatdown-minded Demigod could also employ knacks like Opening Salvo, Scathing Retort or Knowing Glance. If you're really looking for ways to make sure these Scions suffer some of the consequences of their actions, they don't even have to break their Virtues; if they're low on Willpower and the Demigod punishing them breaks their Virtues, they'll have just as much of a spiritual crisis on their hands.
But anyway, on to the main event: Justice boons and how to use them on people who don't care about anything but their punching stats. First of all, if there's a particular misbehavior that your Scions are often guilty of that isn't technically illegal, you'll want to give this Demigod Code of Heaven so he can kick their asses even if they haven't strictly broken a law. If one of their favorite shenanigans is listed on the Code of Heaven table, consider making your Demigod from that pantheon so that they have a free ticket to clock these kids one if need be. This prevents the dreaded Lawyering.
Punishments in the Justice purview often depend on what the person did and what your goal is in punishing them. Are you trying to make them realize there are consequences for doing that thing, or just consequences for misbehaving in general? Are you trying to rehabilitate them, or just slap them one for being bad? Are you trying to punish them as in doing something that inconveniences them, or something that devastates them, and is it okay with you to punish them in a permanent way, or are you trying for something severe but temporary?
Depending on the answers to those questions, you have several options. Scarlet Letter is a hilarious good time, and while it won't necessarily prevent them from enjoying their beating-stuff stats, it can instantly torpedo their social interactions, or at the least very thoroughly embarrass them and make others not trust them as much. Banish is a great choice for use against a Scion in a retaliatory way; it keeps them away from whatever it is they may have just screwed up, and can be vastly inconvenient or dangerous for them, especially if they have to do things within that banishment area, and instead they're separated from some of their group and can't help the mission succeed or ride to anyone's rescue (or have anyone else nearby to rescue them, for that matter). At best, the whole group will have to stay outside the area of the banishment until he can participate, which will suck and possibly make them miss windows of opportunity, and which often gets the whole group on the "let's not do that again" bandwagon since they were all affected even though only one person actually had the boon used on him. For the high-level Justice Demigod, Psychic Prison is an absolute devastation maneuver; it not only causes significant psychological harm to the person it was used on (but actually only takes a few minutes of real time to happen, so whatever mission they're on isn't even impeded!), but also drains away social stats to represent that damage. These may be primarily physical Scions, but I'd lay odds that at least some of them would not be pleased to suddenly lose dots they previously possessed. And, also at that high level of Demigodhood, Sanctify Oath is another bombshell, and visits endless botchery on Scions who break promises (which the Demigod should, of course, ask them to make when he suspects they're going to misbehave).
However, for a whole group full of mostly physically-oriented people who need a love-tap from Justice, I think your best possible choice might be Sympathy Pains, which ties several people together so that all of them suffer pain and damage simultaneously. Tie them to innocent bystanders, so that if they get hurt everyone suffers; tie them to their enemies, so that they have to accept their punishment if they want to win the day; tie them to the Demigod himself, so that he's untouchable to them unless they want to punch themselves in the face. Sympathy Pains is designed to be used against physical characters who think with their fists and need to be reined in by forcing them to confront that what they do hurts others, so it's flexible enough to be used in a lot of situations for these characters.
Of course, they may find a way to pull one over on your Justice-y Demigod, and if so, well, them's the breaks - sometimes the PCs take out a lovingly-crafted NPC, and that's that. But since Justice is designed to deal with people who have managed to get away with some bullshit in spite of their other obligations or Virtues, using it on Scions who are consistently being dicks is just the way the gods intended things to be.
"using it on Scions who are consistently being dicks is just the way the gods intended things to be." Like poor Goze. Conversely it means high level justice demigods/gods can be dicks because they end up making the rules ala justice, ala Zeus.
ReplyDeleteIt's true. Justice has many themes of punishing the wicked in mythology, but also many of how those in authority make the rules, and those rules are not always fair.
DeleteWhich leads to the question: Am I correct in assuming a Bogovi Scion with Code of Heaven can Justice-smite other Scions for being Scions? And that those whose Code of Heaven taboos include "disrespecting the gods" get to smite atheists on their office hours?
ReplyDeleteBeing an atheist doesn't automatically mean you "disrespect the gods". Yes, it's probably likely they will, if the god is in disguise, that they might bad-mouth gods, but then again, the "theists" like Jews, Christians, and Muslims, call these pantheons false gods... so wouldn't being a believer of the monotheistic religions make you automatically "Disrespecting the gods"?
DeleteNow that you mention it, yes, it most likely would qualify. Just thought the idea of a Demigod running around bashing atheists was funny (reminds me of the petty nature of the gods of Discworld, who uses atheists for target practice).
DeleteOh, well, I've already prepared for the decline of both atheism and monotheism in my game-world anyway. It's just a matter of time, probably. (Obviously, this does bug me a bit, being Christian myself, but it's just a game, and I'd rather have a game-world that keeps true to its own premises than one which caters to my particular religious and philosophical leanings. No point being a chauvinist.)
Lots of good points in this thread! Yes, if you're a Bogovi Scion, you could theoretically punish all other Scions and Legendary beings for interfering with humans... but they're in a weird boat, because they also are committing that crime out of necessity in order to fight the Titans, so they may or may not want to. The Bogovi have had to temporarily break their rule in order to participate in the war, so while they absolutely hate mortal interference, they're being forced to tacitly approve it in wartime anyway, so they may not immediately leap to smiting others for it right now (unless they're doing something egregious or unnecessary). Bogovi Scions, who are modern people, may not share their parents' hatred of the supernatural touching the natural, either; after all, they haven't lived under that law for centuries, and they know their own existence is owed to its breaking.
DeletePeople are making good points - atheists don't have to be automatically disrespectful, and true believers aren't automatically immune from disrespect, either. A lot depends on what they're doing; an atheist who gets in someone else's face and tells them their gods don't exist and they're stupid for thinking they do is being disrespectful to those gods, but one who doesn't believe herself but also doesn't try to prevent others is probably safe. Similarly, someone who believes in a pantheon of gods can still be a dick about them, which happens fairly frequently in world myth - people like Casseiopeia, for example, know perfectly well that Poseidon exists, but they still insist on making statements that will piss those gods off. People can make terrible decisions in all kinds of directions.
And being a monotheist doesn't make you automatically disrespectful, either - it's what you do, not what you believe, that determines that. People who privately believe in a single god but don't confront others over it or make statements claiming that other gods don't exist wouldn't trigger a Code of Heaven, but people who publically declare all other gods are demons or hallucinations, or who try to shame their worshipers for believing in them, will be fair game for a Justice Scion with those powers. (This goes both ways - polytheists are also capable of being massively disrespectful to monotheists and their God, and do so in the real world every day, but it just comes up less in Scion because the game is framed around polytheism.)
DeleteHow is the bogovi breaking their taboo any different than a virgin goddess breaking her taboo by having sex, except on scale?
DeleteWith Scion rules, virgin goddesses do not need to break their taboo on sex, they can adopt Scions. And I'm sure for most of them, their pantheons wouldn't force them to have Scions, since there's plenty of others gods to take up the slack, especially Zeus among the Theoi...
DeleteBut the Bogovi cannot stay out as an entire pantheon from making Scions. They know that not making Scions will put them at a severe disadvantage against the Titans and their spawn. This is an actual need, to be able to survive, because at least then they can rationalize it that they meddled in the affairs of mortals only in making their Scions, and they likely give their Scions a bit of a leeway on disrupting mortal lives, to be able to accomplish their goals. Most likely it leaves a big bad aftertaste int heir mouth, but they know they gotta do it. So it's not just a matter of scale, as it is a matter of survival. Fighting them was hard in ancient times, and now they are back with a vengeance, and clamoring for god blood.
Itzhak is right. If some people in the pantheon are having kids, the others can help out by adopting. If none of them are having kids, they're not able to help as a whole team.
DeleteAlso, the Bogovi's problem is with Scions existing, period, so they're not any more okay with adopting them than creating their own. They want there to be no Scions and no interference with the divine on earth, which is literally impossible right now, so it's not a comparable situation.
And thirdly, there's a major difference between gods not wanting to do something because it goes against their collective laws, and gods not wanting to do things because it conflicts with who they are as a person and being and what they represent as a deity. A virgin goddess retaining her virginity is on par with a fire god continuing to be about fire - it's a core part of her.
It's an interesting post, and very informative, but I do find it a bit lacking in one major area. Going over the list of Virtues, I find it hard to believe that a group of players manage to tiptoe between their Virtues, breaking law, without triggering even one of them. It smacks of either rules-lawyering, or a misunderstanding of the Virtues.
ReplyDeleteBut even if they do manage this feat, a Demigod to smite them with Justice wouldn't be my first choice of response. There are ways to show them the consequences of their law-breaking, especially if they mostly focus on their Physical stats, and neglecting the Social and Mental.
Yeah, I agree, I'd actually like to know what Virtues these guys are circumventing and how - I suspect there may be some technicalities going on that we wouldn't let them get away with. There are only so many laws you can break without triggering any Virtues.
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