Monday, January 27, 2014

Extreme Sportsmanship

Question: My game is just a parade of one Virtue Extremity to the next because four characters have Vengeance, two have Order, and two have Valor. They all trigger off each other and nobody can keep up with the loss of Willpower. How do I get my game back on track?

Good old Virtue conflicts. Our beginning advice is to sit down and talk to the players out of character.

You’re definitely feeling that everything’s a disaster all the time, but do the other players and/or Storyteller feel that way? Are they also frustrated by the constant Virtue Extremities or feeling like they can’t get anything done, or are they having a good time and loving the dramatic sparks flying as their personalities clash? If you’re the Storyteller and all your players are having a great time, it might not be broke and you may not have to fix it.

But it sounds like you’re having a lot of frustration and problems and it probably is broke, or it might be a little of column A and a little of column B, and it could use less column B. So, let’s look at how to fix it in-game, and how to fix it out-of-game.

The in-game fixes are easy – so easy, in fact, that you guys probably already know about and use them. Stunting can, of course, get you back Willpower, although it’s never 100% sure since different Storytellers give out two-die stunts on different criteria. Charisma knacks like Blessing of Importance and BFF are the star Willpower-returners, along with runners-up Believe Your Own Press and a few scattered knacks in other Attributes like Appearance’s Lasting Impression. Several boons also allow you to get some Willpower passed around, including Crescent Glow in Moon and several of the higher-level Sun boons. And, if you’re lucky enough to have a Moon-oriented Scion, Mirror of Lunacy is straight-up designed to prevent Extremities from running rampant. This doesn’t mean that your whole group has to invest in a bunch of powers they aren’t statted for, but if your characters inside the game itself are occasionally realizing, “Hey, Jimmy seems to go crazy a lot,” they might decide to prepare for that situation by boning up on their Charisma. It’s not a permanent solution, but other “crowd control” powers that can temporarily distract or incapacitate an Extremitying Scion can also help mitigate the problem, and at least give everyone else time to figure out how to contain the problem child or move him somewhere that he won’t hurt too many people.

Normally, though, when we’re having a higher percentage of unhandled Extremity craziness in our groups, we like to take a second to remind the players out of character about how these things work. Remind them that people are going to freak out when they do certain things, and that by now that should not be a surprise; if you know you have people with you who have Valor, then you know you run the risk of triggering them if you perform too many backstabs near them, and if you know you have people with you who have Order, you know better than to think you can break a bunch of laws and they’ll never have a shrieking fit over it. This absolutely doesn’t mean that you can’t do things that trigger one another; a Scion’s gotta do what a Scion’s gotta do, and often your own Virtues would get upset if you didn’t. But it does mean that since you know you may cause problems, you can actively try to avoid those things. You know you’ve got a Valor guy, so make sure you distract him when you do something underhanded, or sneak off to somewhere he won’t find out what you did. You know you’ve got a Vengeance guy, so throw up a smokescreen and keep him from seeing the object of his hatred if you don’t have time for him to go bananas right now. You know you’ve got an Order girl, so wait until she leaves the room before you start shoplifting.

Virtues are inconvenient and they often fight among themselves, but it’s key that you remember what Virtues your bandmates have and act accordingly. You may not know their exact spread or exact dots, but if you’ve been stuck in constantly-triggering Extremity hell for a while, you definitely know some things that will touch them off. Hide those things. Lie about those things. Do those things when they’re not around. Leave before you do those things. Use powers to cover up those things. You don’t need to necessarily buy a lot of sneakin’ stats for these things, either; a lot of the time, it’s just about the timing. If you know you’re going to stab a guy to death, for goodness sake, send the Valor people down the street for milk first or something.

This won’t work all the time; sometimes they won’t miss what you’re up to, or sometimes you’ll get away with it but they’ll find out later and still freak out. Sometimes your plan was flawless but they happen to innocently ask something about it at just the wrong moment and you’re a bad liar. But it certainly helps some, and that’s usually enough to take the pressure off so that the majority of the time your Willpower-producers can handle the rest.

You will still trigger one another sometimes. That’s just the breaks of being in a band. But if your character knows that can happen and takes steps to avoid it, you should be able to deal with it without resorting to frothing attack fits all the time, and trust us, those other players will probably often appreciate being kept in the dark rather than constantly pushed over the edge into murder territory.

19 comments:

  1. So, say i have a god! Odin!
    Odin sees a mortal that he think is awesome, so he does the only logical thing, he kills him in combat, avatars down and starts a fistfight with the dude under which he killed him. He has now killed a dude.
    Ameterasu sees this, would she have to roll Order if she did not want to punish Odin for breaking the law? or are gods above such mortal laws?

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    1. When it comes to order, gods are not above mortal laws. Laws are laws, they provide structure and stability to society. But this brings up many questions that probably avoid the situation from happening.
      Is it just coincidence that amateratsu is there at the time? Is odin doing this on purpose then to piss her off for some reason? Or does he know shes there and that would probably stop him from doing it to avoid an incident. Are fistfights to the death illegal? In an old norse town they probably wouldnt be, in a new norse town, probably. But the recourse now isnt for a god to punish you anymore, the way to follow order is to let the police arrest odin. If amaterasu watches, and odin gets arrested....then justice has been done.
      Although its more probable that it ends up being manslaughter, and maybe the punishment is a fine? If its an old norse city, maybe he owes weregild to the family and plans on paying it.

      In either case though.....she probably rolls her order and deals witih it....cause thats a giant headache she doesnt want. But maybe she extremities...and we have one of the best tales of recent history.

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    2. so, is she ''good to go'' if she calls the police? or not before they actually arrested him?

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    3. Calling the police is definitely the appropriate response; Order will be satisfied with that, especially if she then leaves. However, if she were to witness him escaping from custody, then she would have to take action and maybe make a citizens' arrest herself.

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    4. Ameterasu headlocking Odin and going ''you're under arrest, im bringing you in'' is the best picture in my head now.
      Thanks for the answers, both of you :)

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    5. Knowing its a god and their mortal police...she probably has to stay to make sure laws are obeyed. She knows theres a good chance he'd just kill the police as well.

      Important side note! If she sees him fighting the guy, and doesnt stop it before the guy dies, shes complicent in some states/countries. Maybe she doesnt have to run in there and break up the fight, but the calling the police, waiting to give her story of the events, etc should happen probably when the fight starts.

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  2. Order applies to the Law of the place you're in. Laws are established and must be respected. Order virtue doesn't care if you're mortal, hero, demigod, or a God. You must respect the laws established by those who reside in that place just as a god would expect the laws they set in place for their own realm to be respected.

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    1. Indeed. Order is a devotion to the *idea* of laws, social contracts and orderly conduct. If you ignore the local laws because they disagree with your set of laws, you're not really respecting the *idea* of laws. You're just respecting your own particular set of laws, which pretty much all Pantheons do. It's only a few that are devoted to something greater, higher and more fundamental: Order as a Virtue.

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    2. Thank you all for helping to sort this out :)
      This ''virtue'' post became very Order-centric all of a sudden, huh? :P

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  3. Hypothetical Order scenario:

    The existence of Scions becomes publicly known in the USA. After seeing the trouble they cause, the US government passes a law banning Scions from the USA.

    Order Scions would be compelled to obey that law and just stay out of the USA altogether? What do they do once a massive Titanspawn invasion hits? What do they do about the currently inactive Scions still in the USA just waiting for their Visitations? What happens when a Netjer Scion receives his Visitation in the USA?

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    1. Order Scions are indeed compelled to obey that law, which will cause them problems. If the law says they have to be deported, they need to roll Order unless they just leave. If the law says them just being here at all is a criminal act, they need to roll Order or go turn themselves in. It doesn't matter that there are monsters here that they could be fighting to help people; the law says they can't be here, and Order doesn't care whether or not they like the law.

      Inactive Scions - as in, they have never had a Visitation - aren't actually Scions yet; they don't have a Legend rating and are indistinguishable from humans, so as long as they stay that way, they probably don't have to do anything about them. But if a Netjer Scion gets his Visitation in the US, he needs to immediately follow whatever protocol the law says Scions in the US are subject to - deportation, imprisonment, or whatever else is legal. Otherwise, he has to roll his Order to resist the urge to trust the system and obey its laws regardless of his own wants.

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    2. Banning scions seems like an odd response. Jailing scions seems more reasonable? LIke, how does the banning work? Do they round them up and deport them? Is that really in the US's best interest? Do other countries now have scions in their army that the us cant deal with?

      But past that to the specifics:
      Yes, they are compelled to obey, so in this instance, that just means moving. Its a big planet.
      massive invasion that hits america? Well they either roll vs their order all the time. or let a lot of people die and probably roll vs their other virtues. Sounds like its time to suck it up and break some laws.
      they have no way of knowing who the inactive scions are any more then the police do. And it depends how the law is written i suppose. But they follow the law.
      Well, its possible that he wont, cause his parents know its illegal and their order is far stronger then their kids order. But if they do....and the kid knows the law, he is suddenly compelled to turn himself in.

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    3. I see. Interesting.

      I guess in the event of an invasion, the Order Scions would just have to leave the defense up to their fellow Scions who don't have Order. Or, yeah, make a lot of Order rolls and/or spend lots of Willpower.

      Everything else makes sense enough, I guess. I was mostly thinking about Marvel's Civil War storyline when I thought about this scenario.

      I hated that storyline with a passion, but suddenly I'm intrigued by the thought of running a game where, like, half my players have Order and the other half don't and we see what happens between them when such a law gets passed.

      For one thing? What would Order Scions do if they knew that several of their (non-Order) Bandmates have no intention of obeying this new law? Would the Order guys just pack up and leave/turn themselves in? Or would they feel the need to try to force their non-Order cohorts to leave/surrender as well?

      For one thing, the Order guys HAVE to know that mortal police have pretty much zero chance of deporting/arresting a group of Scions on their own. So do they break the law by remaining in the USA while they try to arrest/deport their Bandmates? Or do they just say "Okay, we're going to obey the law because that's our thing. You guys are on your own."

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    4. Don't forget, while Order Scions would have to leave the US, get diplomatic immunity or stay in embassies (or something else), they could TOTALLY work to repeal or change that law using Epic Socials and other powers to influence politicians. Phone calls, letters, skype calls, etc.

      Order doesn't mean you have to let unjust laws STAND. You just have to go through the SYSTEM to change them. You respect the integrity of the system, but you can still bring about change.

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    5. Yeah, I suppose that would be true.

      With Epic Socials, an Order Scion or two could get this law changed/repealed in pretty short order.

      Which would mean that this idea suffers from the same problem as Civil War: it's only a good story if all the characters involved in it suddenly become a bunch of idiots.

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    6. Unnatural, it depends on the ST and the player. The Virtue absolutely forces them to police themselves, but they will extend that (especially at high levels of Order) to trying to prevent others from violating the law. So, yeah, the Order Scions might try very hard to convince their friends to do the "right thing" and follow the law. Even "turning a blind eye" to a crime requires an Order check, though I'd make that less of a severe check than violating a law yourself.

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    7. Yeah, I get that.

      My point was that there won't be any Civil War-style strife between the Bandmates unless they're all the biggest idiots around.

      Unless they're idiots, the Order guys will say to the non-Order guys "Hey, just play along right now. Leave the country or turn yourselves in. We (meaning the Order guys) are going to head down to Congress and start making major Charisma rolls. Don't worry, we'll have this law gone in no time."

      Unless the NON-Order guys are also idiots they'll say "Yeah, okay. We'll take a little vacation to Mexico while you guys sort this out."

      Just like in Civil War, if Captain America and Tony Stark had been written with a TENTH of their usual intelligence, they would've sat down and talked the situation out and come up with a clever solution that in no way involves trying to beat each other to death in the streets

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    8. I've never read Marvel Civil war, but I'll take your word for it. However a more likely situation is the NON-Order Scions heading to Congress to fix the situation while the Order Scions take a short vacation.

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    9. I mean....the order scions are rolling anyway to let the non order scions do what they want....so if they're gonna roll anyway they might as well just go do the thing.

      But yes, a lot like civil war.

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