Friday, May 25, 2012

It's Not the Size that Counts

Question: How do you handle the imbalance of XP from one player to the next? Unfavored things, the Demigod upgrade, and the God Upgrade can all conspire to create a gulf of 200 XP or more by god.

Most of the time, we don't! And that has always worked out pretty great for us. We do some small things to try to keep XP striation down - we award Legend instead of letting it be bought, for one thing, and if there are PCs of different Legend in the same band, those of lower Legend get slightly more XP than those of higher Legend to prevent the higher-Legend people from leaving them in the dust - but most of the time, we let things happen organically based on how the players want to run with their points. There will always be some XP variation between PCs, but the key is that that variation is in their hands, not ours.

You're right; where a PC chooses how to spend bonus points at creation, where to put their dots at the Demigod and God upgrades, whether they're buying favored or unfavored abilities and associated or unassociated powers, whether they're buying knacks on their own or getting them for free from Epics, and whether or not they have the XP-discount or free-dots-of-abilities Knacks all make a difference in how far the same amount of XP stretches. In our games, Fatebonds are a further element, as Fatebonds buy things at a reduced price from what the PC would pay to buy them alone, so someone who has 50 XP worth of a purview bought off will see it coverted into other things that, if they were trying to buy themselves, would be worth more than 50 XP. Players missing games, which happens inevitably over the course of a long game, also now and then causes them to lose out on XP that the other players get. There are a lot of ways to monkey around with XP and how you spend it and where it goes in Scion, and it's inevitable that some characters will end up "ahead" if you consider it a zero-sum total number.

But we generally don't, because the players have almost total control over their own XP and whether or not they want to spend it in the most "efficient" manner or take a hit in order to do something they like better. Sure, the player who wanted to have "the most XP" should probably only buy things that are associated, always immediately buy all the XP-discount knacks and hope they get Fatebound for stats they don't like to be bought off to increase ones they do, but that doesn't sound like very much fun to me, to be honest, and I'd assume it doesn't to our players, either, because none of them have ever tried to do it. Which is not to say that they're not on the lookout for how to stretch their XP the furthest, of course, nor that we don't help out with that whenever it looks like someone's struggling to figure out how to do everything they want to do, but the most important thing is generally getting the most bang for your XP when doing what you want to do, not getting the most bang for it in general terms.

We've never had a PC who didn't at some point start buying something that was unassociated or unfavored of their own accord; we've never had one who had only Fatebonds that made life easy (nor one who only had Fatebonds that made life hard, in fact). We've had a few buy up all the XP discount knacks, but it's much more common for them to have one or two in the attributes that make the most sense for them. Those are things that naturally happen over the course of a character's growth, as their priorities and plans change and they grow beyond being just a servant of their parents and start becoming a deity of their own. And of course this means that they end up with, as you note, an XP "gulf" of a few (on up to quite a few) points between different PCs, but that disparity has never made the slightest difference in play.

There are just so many ways to be powerful and effective in Scion that having the most points doesn't matter as much as where you put them and whether or not you're covering areas the other PCs aren't, which is one of the wonderful things about the game. Someone like Terminus, who has had his stats bought off and rebought by Fatebonds so many times that he's like a walking patchwork quilt of a god, covered in Arete and trailing thread, may have technically "more" XP spent on his character than someone like Zwazo Fou Fou, but the fact remains that Zwazo frequently saves Terminus' bacon, because Terminus' points are in things like "seeing really far" and "using Magic to make Fate hate me", while Zwazo's are in more concrete things like "chopping people into small pieces" and "running away really fast". Scion is a beautiful example of a game in which where you spend your points and what you choose as your specialties is much more important than your gross amount of XP, which leaves XP (basically just the measure of how quickly your character can learn something) free to be more of an in-game flavor source than a be-all and end-all almighty game-decider.

So, yeah, if you reverse-engineered, say, all nine of our current Legend 9 PCs, you'd find that probably none of them have the exact same total amount of XP as represented by dots and boons. But all of them are incredibly powerful and vital members of their teams, and the fact that Sowiljr probably has slightly less total XP than Eztli does not in any way make him less powerful than she is or less critically important to the success and survival of the entire band. The only time a difference of XP is going to be a problem is if two PCs in the same game have exactly the same associations and favored abilities and exactly the same Fatebonds and are buying only exactly the same stats with no variations or extras, and I can't imagine that ever happening. Ironically, it's just as often the PCs who technically have more XP calling frantically for help from a PC who has less as it is the other way around; in Scion, unless you're looking at incredibly extreme cases, the differences in PCs' XP totals don't matter even remotely as much as what they have chosen to do with that XP.

6 comments:

  1. How do you award XP. I find that when you reach demigodhood, the xp awards in the book is ridiculous. It seems based on the usual White-Wolf, but the problem is that boons, epics and stats go up to eleven. You can't keep giving 5-8 XPs when things cost 50+ XP.

    The easy fix is to give more xp, increasing with the legend of the band.

    Or, since boons are usually less powerful then Epics, give free boons from time to time according to their legends and workings of Fate. Perhaps keep track of points until you have enough to «buy» it for the player.

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    1. Boons are far more powerful then epics. You are insane if you think otherwise.

      But yes we give more xp. I went into an extensive post about it once that I just remembered was on facebook and not here. But we increase and decrease depending on length of game, stuff that got done, legend of the characters etc.

      And yes we have a whole fatebond system where players get stuff occasionally based on what humans believe of them. However they also lose powers occasionally because of the same problems. This is why you'll find several player gods with 1 in some attributes.

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  2. Could Sculptor or 11 automatic successes ?

    Your version of the boons are more powerful then the ones in the book, but boons are alot more flare then power. They do give players more options and some are actually rather strong, like your version of War. Then again, if a player wants to be better in battle for example, he would get more consistency from Epics. That same warrior might even just buy key boons when he «levels up» as demigod and just focus on Epics. And I'm not even talking about those free Knacks that come along.

    I'm not saying it's better to optimize your character, I'm just stating it's mathematically more rewarding to grab epics then boons, especially at Demigod/god levels, where the automatic success gap grows larger.

    I might be insane, but someone with 3 Epic Dex has a hard time to scratch someone with 5, even if he can shape pretty clouds.

    And then, what about Social characters? There isn't a whole lot of boons out there that can rival racking up Epic Appearance for example.

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    1. You picked one of the weakest boons, but even then, you can only compare it vs 4 successes. You already have 7 successes before you buy the equivalent epic. So yes, Id say in general its WAY better to be able to move and control the clouds then it is to have 4 successes to some rolls.

      Your later argument is flaccid though. If your aim is to be a social character, of course you should spend points in socials, but your aim could just as easily be to be a sky god, in case it makes far more sense to buy sky boons.

      Epic dex: It is just as easy if you have animal aspect or fury of war instead of the epic. And if you're just looking for the mathmatics, often boons are superior. Using chaos to put someone at zero dv fixes your dex problem far quicker and with more success then getting the epics.

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  3. The difference is you don't need to activate epics and they are always useful.

    As for the socials, if we can compare Fighters and their best picks between Epics and Boons, it's also fair to throw in the social butterfly. Most Boons don't help for social situations, they are usually more utility/battle oriented.

    On a side-note, I adjusted Cloud Sculptor in my game to make it a tad more useful. I allow the PC to constrict the clouds and make them rain, or use them to make fog along with the other.

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    1. Yes, we do the same with cloud sculptor. Havnt updated the website. But it adds a cost to the boon to do that part.

      Most of our social characters have something else that they "are". No one is just a social character. And although they dont add direct benefits they often use them in social situations as stunt fodder and as their je ne sais qois.

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