Question: Are all the Titans inherently evil? It seems like there are quite a few Titans that just don't care about the war and would rather be off doing their own thing. Or am I misunderstanding something and all the Titans really do just want the gods wiped out? What I'm asking is, is it possible for Titans and gods to have a positive relationship?
Sure. Anything is possible in Scion. It's not likely, but it's possible.
Many Titans (usually the dominant Avatars of a realm especially) really are evil - they specifically want to destroy the gods, either because they hate them or because the gods get in their way and prevent them from doing what they want to do. Avatars like Surtr, Tiamat or Apep want to consume the cosmos, murder the gods wholesale or rampage unchecked destruction across the World for their own amusement; they are Bad Guys and cannot be reasoned with or excused. They have no interest in anyone or anything's wellbeing except their own, and if they ever do anything nice for anybody it's either an accident or part of a plan to spring something nasty at a later date. They are selfish, destructive, evil beings to whom not just humanity but even the gods are mere obstacles to be eradicated.
And that's usually what most people think of when Titans are mentioned - but they're not the only kind out there. Titans aren't necessarily evil - rather, they're enormous, cosmic, fundamental beings who have little or no connection to humanity and embody their concept so thoroughly that they are alien even to the gods. Titans like Oceanus or Kagutsuchi aren't evil; they're not out there trying to ruin anyone's day, but they represent such awesome universal forces that the gods have to oppose them anyway, simply because to let them roam free is to watch the World be destroyed behind them. They're not out there with the goal of destroying the World; it's just that the World will be destroyed if they're in it, because they are too huge and cosmic to do anything else. If you've ever played the video game Shadow of the Colossus, it's a good example of this idea in action - there's no philosophical quarrel between these Titans and the gods, but the gods have to put them down before they do irreparable damage.
And finally, there are Titans who are neither murderous opponents of the gods nor juggernauts of automatic destruction, and those are the ones most likely to be able to have reasonable discussions with the pantheons. These are figures who are so ancient and removed from humanity that they are really no longer gods and more expressions of the primordial Titanrealms; they're folks like Danu, Phoebe or Dyaus Pita, no longer connected to humans or even really able to fathom them as more than ants, but still neutral in the war. They won't necessarily do anything for either the gods or the other Titans, or they'll help whichever it benefits them to help, but they can theoretically be reasoned with or even cautiously allied with if the situation demands it.
The Dodekatheon in our games are actually cautiously allied with Erebus at the moment, leaving him and his realm alone in return for his promise to stay neutral and try to prevent other Avatars of Darkness from harassing them; he pretty much thinks of humans and even lesser gods as insects, but that doesn't make him automatically a force allied against them. He's just old, and powerful, and if you offer him things he wants there's a chance he might temporarily view you as an ally or even friend. Danu is another one we've used; she isn't directly involved in the war and refuses to take sides, but she still has enough maternal instinct to sometimes help her far-descended children if they turn up in distress right under her nose.
So yeah, some Titans, I think, can definitely work in a friendly manner with the gods if they have a good reason to. Being part of a Titanrealm doesn't automatically make everyone a ravening monstrous force of destruction - it depends entirely on what part of that Titanrealm they represent and whether or not that's something that is able to be neutral or even beneficial to the gods and to mankind. Even if a Titan seems to be reasonable enough, however, I'd always keep in mind that they are not on the same level even with the gods; they don't see things the same way and don't have the same priorities or ideals, so relying on them to have the same reaction or plan in a given situation that you would is just asking for heartbreak.
this reminds me of the post where you said Hestia, Hecate and Heapheastus defected and became avatars of the human aspects of fire and earth. your right The Titans themselves, the massive all powerful realms are little more than lumbering cosmic beasts and are no more evil than the elephant that accidentally steps on an ant. but the avatars are another story. They are iconoclastic megalomaniacs who have very human desires in the form of titanic virtues. It is as if the worlds worst sociopath had psychic control over the aformentioned elephant and could make it crush, smash and maim anything he wanted it to.
ReplyDeleteAh, but my post here is directly disagreeing with you. Some Titans - in fact, many Titans - are indeed terrible maniacal destructoids who just want to blow everything up and kill everyone. There are plenty of them and they're often the dominant Avatar.
DeleteBut that's not what all Titans are - I mean, what does Shu care about destroying everything? He's just a representative of breath and air whose myths mostly have to do with looking for his wife; the Scion book has to rewrite him and give him a completely fabricated personality in order to put him on that side of the war. Why would Phoebe give a damn about blowing up all the gods? She not only never quarreled with them, she was so respected by them that they gave her name to Apollo and Artemis in her honor. There are a lot of figures who are clearly Titans - they're too ancient, too remote and too cosmic to be gods and definitely don't behave like gods - who are also clearly not evil.
Titan doesn't always mean evil, just like god doesn't always mean good. That may be where the majority skews, but there are definitely plenty of exceptions, and ignoring them would simplify the game down to a much more boring landscape, I'd think.
wait! are you my brother? Thats my guess at who you are.
DeleteRight, there are many titan avatars that are peaceful but unfortunately the ones who are in control of the titans powers are the sociopathic and monstrous avatars who want to watch the world burn (or drown or shake apart) and see the gods and humanity crushed beneath there feet. What good is it talking about the peaceful titan avatars when they have been shoved aside and/or dominated by their more psychotic brethren. You could maybe work to supplant the evil avatar with the peaceful one, but that is a tricky thing to do.
ReplyDeleteI doubt very much that all, or even most, of the less hostile Titan Avatars are being imprisoned or dominated by their angrier brethren; it's not like there's a law requiring them to roll over, and not being hostile doesn't mean they aren't powerful. Gaia might prefer that Danu do what she wants, but is it really worth it to get into a massive gigantic-powers battle with her when she could be fighting the gods instead? Being the dominant Avatar of a Titan gets you some power, but it doesn't give you ultimate power, nor does it remove the free will of the other Avatars. We actually have quite a few Titan Avatars fighting with one another in-game at the moment - in particular, Kronus and Gaia are fighting over large swaths of Terra and Hyperion and Aten have been head-to-head over Akhenaten - but just because one Avatar is currently dominant doesn't mean the others don't matter. Not in the slightest.
DeleteThink of it more like an army. Yes, the general's in charge, and yes, most often his men will do what he says, but that doesn't mean his captains can't decide to do whatever the fuck they want to in the field, up to and including desertion.
Aren't the gods lucky Rorshach style "My principles matter more than the world" types never become Scions....
ReplyDeleteHave you met Aiona?
DeleteI always got she was more "the ends justify the means" type.
DeleteOh, she is, but the ends are her ends and nobody else's.
DeleteYeah, thats kinda like the reverse rorshach. Shes more like an ozymandias.
Deletethen that must make Valla Dr. Manhattan.
DeleteAhaha, the mental image!
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