Question: Does Principals of Motion allow a Greek scion to add Brawl and Arete (Brawl) and Academics and Arete (Academics) to his normal attack rolls? That could be a lot of dice... Does Fight with your Head last the whole scene?
Yes, actually it does! Provided he pays the Legend cost Principles of Motion spells out for his level of Academics, a Scion may add his Arete: Academics, even if he also already has Arete: Brawl (or any of the other skills affected by Principles of Motion or Applied Academics. If he doesn't pay the Legend cost, he'll have only his normal Arete dice for Brawl.
Arete represents the fact that a Greek Scion is awesomely skilled at certain things; if he's awesomely skilled at Academics, awesome, he has Arete dice and is beyond even most gods' abilities to master the subject. Principles of Motion and Applied Academics are knacks that specifically allow Scions to focus their academic prowess into concrete real-world applications, so it only makes sense that a Greek Scion with boatloads of Arete should be able to focus that as well. That does mean that double-dipping may occur if the Scion has Arete for both Academics and the other ability he's rolling, but that's okay; that's representing that he's A) superlatively awesome at brawling, B) superlatively awesome at the theories and ideas of brawling thanks to his book-learning, and C) possesses the kind of specialized genius needed to apply the one to the other. It is a lot of dice - the maximum, at Legend 12, would be +92 dice if he has all the Arete he can get in both skills - but that's what he built himself to do along with heavy XP investment, and those are the shining moments when he should be excelling at his perfected skills. He can go wild.
As for Fight With Your Head: yes, it lasts for the scene. Once you have used it to effectively lower your opponent's DV, it will remain lowered until he dies, you die, the scene ends, or you use FWYH again on a different stat, at which point his DV is restored to normal. I do see that it doesn't say that, though, so we'll make a point to update the knack to avoid confusion. Thanks for pointing it out!
This post totally feels like it's about Sophia, even though it's not.
What about other long duration academic adders?
ReplyDeleteDirection of Me (Industry, Stars)
Akunlegba (Thirst for Sensation)
Astronomer's Eye
Ability Geasa (Broken, but might technically qualify)
Yep! Most of the time, unless otherwise noted, long-range dice adders stack. (Although of course three of those you noted are PSPs, so a Scion could only have one of them at a time.)
DeleteHow would you break down the legend cost for those benefits?
DeleteUnless a power states it, there isn't one. Dice adders don't inherently cost anything to stack; if you can pay for the power and there's no rule that prevents you from using it along with something else, go nuts. A Scion with Astronomer's Eye and Direction of Me at the same time isn't paying any extra cost.
DeleteSome powers that add to abilities contain a clause that requires Scions to spend more to add Arete to it, to help ensure that they aren't unbalanced in favor of Greek Scions. They'll always say it in the power's text, though (like And the Crowd Goes Wild or Applied Academics). In those cases, if the Scion doesn't pay the extra cost for Arete, the power will apply only to their normal dots of the ability.
So you are saying that a Tuatha with an Ability Geasa does not have to pay any additional legend since the knacks specify Arete? Okay.
DeleteAt the moment, no. Where the Dodekatheon Scion actually has permanent extra dots of an ability, the Tuatha Scion only has a bonus to a roll. The geas is a dice adder itself, so it stacks as normal.
DeleteAs you noted above, though, Enech's pretty busted. We need to do a rewrite on it soon, but in the meantime it's not hard to spot the places where it has an advantage over some other powers in the ga,e.
If you feel it's out of control and want to spot-bandage the power, I'd suggest using the same Legend costs currently used for Arete where applicable.
DeleteAhhhh, I see what's going on here. I didn't understand what you were saying. :)
DeleteStuff like Astronomer's Eye stacks, but doesn't affect each other. For example, Applied Academics only affects actual dots of Academics you possess (Arete or otherwise), so extra dice from things like AE are not included. AE will boost your Academics rolls, but not add to the Academics bonus you give to other abilities with AA. Make sense?
Or, to use an example: You have 5 Intelligence, 5 Academics, 3 Occult, Astronomer's Eye adding 4 dice to your Academics rolls, and Applied Academics. If you're called upon to roll Intelligence + Academics, you roll 14 dice (Int + Aca + AE). If you need to roll Intelligence + Occult, you'll roll 13 dice (Int + Occ + Aca). You wouldn't roll 17 dice, because the 4 dice from AA add to your Academics but aren't actual dots of it.
Yeah, that is definitely what I have been asking about! Thank you very much for the answers! But I've got one more set of questions that are more about clarification than anything else:
DeleteYou said that Astronomer's Eye does not affect each other, but Astronomer's Eye gives phantom dots and not dice.
But you also said that Arete adds extra permanent dots, while Arete gives dice and not phantom dots.
So which version is true?
(Akunlegba and Geasa state they add dice to rolls so there is no confusion there)
Sorry for all the confusion - it's a hard subject to talk about with easy terms. :)
DeleteAstronomer's Eye grants phantom dots, but phantom dots are not affected by powers that add your dots to other things. They're dice adders and don't factor into formulas.
See, I thought 'phantom dots' meant things that get added to your derived values like Jotunblut increasing your soak.
DeleteMeanwhile, I thought 'dice' meant things that are only added to rolls.
That is to say, I thought the difference in terminology were a specific attempt to make them different.
So for the sake of making my brain not totally explode all over the place, would it be possible if I asked really really nicely to make it specific terminology?
Like Astronomer's Eye would say dice, and Arete would say phantom dots, and Jotunblut/Jack of all Trades/Know it All would say whichever you intended them to be?
Hmm I was following until the part about phantom dots. Does that mean that the extra dot of stamina from Giant Among Men does not modify the Scion's soak or dying boxes at all? Similarly, the dot of Strength does not apply to the Lift/Throw table?
DeleteI are confused.
I think anon is right - there's a wording failure here. Jotunblut phantom dots do add to their calculations, but Astronomer's Eye doesn't and should probably just say "dice added".
DeleteDifferent Anon, but Arete should say phantom dots to suggest that they do add to their calculations if that is your intent.
DeleteIt was always my belief that phantom dot meant it added to derived values, and dice added only applies to rolls.
Ah, but Arete is real dots, not phantom ones. No clarification necessary there. :)
DeleteEh....not really. It doesnt add to DV. I'll agree the wording on dice adders in general probably needs clarification.
Delete