Question: What happens if a Scion fucks up really badly (through their own actions or because of someone's political maneuverings) - is it possible that they get exiled or kicked out of the pantheon? Would the PSP and Birthrights given to them by the pantheon also be taken away? Also, is it possible to become a god without a pantheon, or would one need to be a part of one? What if you want to gather some other gods and start your own?
Wow. No time for chitty-chat, we'd better dive into that big bowl of questions right away or there's going to be no time left for dinner.
Scions and even gods certainly can make such grievous errors of judgment (or be the poor saps in the wrong place at the wrong time) that they bring down their entire pantheon's wrath on them. They probably don't most of the time, however; Scions and gods are valuable weapons and helpers in the war against the Titans that the pantheons really can't afford to lose unless they have no choice, and it's rare that the entire pantheon will unite against one person when more often they'll end up taking sides and fighting among themselves. Especially in the case of Scions, these are gods who have already invested time and effort into them expressly in order to get them to help with this Titan problem they're having, so you'll much more often see a pantheon try to guide, discipline or otherwise fix a problem Scion than just get rid of one outright. A crime that warranted actual, full rejection would have to be a serious one, well outside the normal hijinks of most Scions.
Such an action would have to be seriously gigantic in scope to merit a full exile; treason, collusion with Titans, killing others of the pantheon and similar sins might all qualify. These are not guarantees that a Scion will be kicked out, however, as it depends on whether or not they still have a parent or other allies among the gods to go to bat for them, people their actions benefited who would rather they stick around, and so forth. And even if a Scion fucks up so badly that the pantheon is Done With Him, he probably won't be exiled simply because most pantheons would rather kill the offender than leave him to pop back up all Saturday morning cartoon villain again at a later date (or, potentially worse, go start working for rival gods!). In most cases, if a god or Scion manages the impressive feat of pissing off the entire pantheon (or, in the case of some pantheons, just its really angry king) enough to be completely rejected, I'd expect it to be more likely that someone just kills her, or maybe dumps her in Tartarus or some other prison. Just exiling someone is begging for her to come back and be a thorn in your side later.
But that doesn't mean it couldn't happen; perhaps Amaterasu has a son she loves too much to have outright killed even if he deserves it and thus only sends him away, or maybe a Scion is repudiated from the Devas and put in jail but manages to escape and run around on his own anyway, or maybe Tezcatlipoca is intentionally exiling his son as some kind of inscrutable Tezcatlipocian test. It still might happen, so if your plot has a good reason for it, by all means, exile away.
As for what an exiled Scion loses, things actually aren't all that complicated there. A Scion certainly could lose her Birthrights, especially if the pantheon wants to make sure she's less of a threat to them in the future. All it takes is a god with a good enough Steal Birthright roll to rip those off her and redistribute them to other, more well-behaved soldiers of the gods.
She won't lose her PSP, however; once she's been Visited by the pantheon, the ichor of the pantheon is in her veins and she always has access to her PSP, even if they're pissed off at her. Johnny being booted out of the Tuatha won't suddenly turn his Enech off; it'll just mean that the other Tuatha won't associated with him or will possibly stab him on sight, not that the divine blood in his veins has become any less Irish than it was at his birth as a Scion. It's maybe theoretically possible for him to lose access to his PSP if someone wants to blow The Wyrd and really go to town on him, but realistically I doubt any god wants to spend that ridiculous amount of resources on it without an epically good reason (again, way easier to just kill him), and even then I'm not necessarily convinced a Scion's or god's PSP could be fully stripped without anything to replace it.
It is technically possible for a Scion to become a god even if he's been repudiated from his pantheon, but it's infinitely more difficult. He can't count on his pantheon having his back (indeed, he may need to avoid them at all costs), and it's likely that he can't count on some of other pantheons to do so either if the original pantheon puts out a divine burn notice on him. He has no directions, information from the gods, no real clue how the war is progressing or where he needs to go, and he may or may not even be able to find any other Scions willing to accept him long enough to help him stay alive. The odds are exponentially worse that he'll survive to apotheosis, but it is still possible, if more improbable than usual.
Creating your own pantheon is, however, totally possible, and you don't need to be an exiled pantheon-less Scion to do so. Many players have told me that their PCs want to use their bands as the starting core of a new pantheon, and we've talked about how you would go about doing that before over here. Basically, it will take a lot of epic planning, enormous power, insane politics and unprecedented awesomeness, but players can definitely pull it off if they put their minds to it. If you're a player, talk to your Storyteller about what they think such a feat would require so you have some idea of what you need to do; if you're a Storyteller, figure out your answer so you're ready when they ask, because while we haven't had anyone try to build a new pantheon in our game yet, the players have still asked about it on more than one occasion.
who want's to be the Michale Weston of the overworld? I always imagined him as the scion of Hermes
ReplyDeleteFire, I have to agree with you on this one. Arete seems like the best choice as a PSP, the virtues can kinda fit and Hermes as the father I can see that. Psychopomp not so much, but the epics of Intelligence, Wits and Dexterity I can. Then possible Manipulation? He was good looking for a mortal and he was more able to tell a story then to tell the truth to people.
DeleteWhat purviews would you say he has, cause I am thinking maybe Chaos.
I've almost had this happen to me once, where I could of gotten myself exiled. I was playing an Irish scion in a band of people who were new at this game. We had two people, who I shall refer to Twiddle Dee and Twiddle Dum. They had both decided to play a Greek Scion, Dee an African Mercenary son of Athena and Dum a Swedish Chef of Hephaestus. Don't ask me how they made these characters up, but they did pretty horrible jobs. Not only that, but they also were thought to get high before this game.
ReplyDeleteAnyways, the two caused havoc, like kidnapping people to be a collector or killing strangers. Then they also tried to do Meta-gaming in the game, by picking on people's characters that they hated outside of game, but did nothing to them. Example, I had my character go do a secret mission of traveling through the sewer system to get into a Psychward and tap into their security feed so we could have access to their CCTV system. Seems like a simple job? Nope
Dee decided to follow me, without telling me. Then when in the mortuary of this place, he makes a small noise to try and get me caught. We both hide in time before the old doctor say us, but I told him to shut up. He preceded to yell "Don't tell me be to be quiet!" or something close to that. Again we hide and I try to continue the job. He ends up cutting into bodies in the morgue and stuffing them with gas grenades, primed to go off. I try to get him to stop and he makes more noise trying to make me get caught.
Then the most stupidest thing happens from him. To hide after the noise, he gets on to one of the slabs and closes the doors behind him. At this point I just leave, letting him deal with his own fate as he caused my mission to fail. He bangs on the door, until the old Doc, who had almost left by then, decides to free who ever was in there. Dee then hugged the man and kidnapped him. Then moments later he kills him cause a Titan Avatar started talking to him and joined their side. Which he promptly proclaimed to his mother on the phone and most of the group. We got the kill order moments later and the Scion of Vidar got the kill.
Afterwards, Dum's player notices how horrible his character is and instead of remaking him like the GM said he could, he decided to kill off his character. Not that bad, eh? Wrong. He decides the best way to do so is fill the cabin with gas from the stove and light it on fire to blow it up. He also forgot to tell everyone he was doing this, so everyone was in the house when he was trying to. Luckily another player punted him out before he could and broke his ribs. A scion of Hephaestus, without Fire Purview and any Epic Stam.
So my character and the other character pinned him down and I had a gun on him. The other character went to get the leader of the group, to see what he wanted to do. I kept my gun to his face and my boot in his broken ribs. He started to go crazy on me, trying to bite me through my boot. So I took my Saiga Semi-Automatic Shotgun and shot his ear off as a warning. I got enough on the marksman roll to just hit the ear. It didn't stop him. He then summoned his sword and was going to try and chop of my leg. I had not much soak and not that much epic stam, so I decided to hell with him and shot off his arm at the elbow. He eventually bled out and died. Cause the only two medics, me and another, I was the only one with Health to help him out. The other just could not stop the bleeding.
Anyways, after his death I had to go in front of a tribunal and explain my actions. I had my Father, Dian Cetch, there to help me out, but I had to explain in front of many gods and then the greek gods specifically, how it all happened. Zues did not care that much in the end, both scions were stupid. Hera was foaming at the mouth that I killed her grandson and I was getting off the hook. Athena was pissed because I showed her up in front of all of the gods, because I made a copy of the video in the Hospital before I erased the security files and showed to all of them the exact video of her scion doing stupid stuff and kidnapping the Doc. Hephaestus was pissed a rival Gods son had killed his, but I never faced his animosity. Only Hera's, with her trying to kill me indirectly.
DeleteAll in all, it was a bad start that made the game a lot harder. Looking back, would I change anything? Maybe not by joining up at all, but his actions I would not. Just added to the fun of pissing off most of the Greek Gods. Hopefully, nothing like this has ever happened in your games.
Dude screw the game and scenarios, if you were dealing with two stoner deuchbags who either/or didn't know how to play the game/didn't care and just wanted to fuck around get on the GM's ass to just eject them, erase their characters and be done with it. Don't mold the story to other peoples dumbassery.
Delete...Yeah, basically that there, what Fire said.
DeleteAnd of course, don't forget that in many ancient cultures, if your kids disgraced you, you just disowned them if you didn't straight up murder them for being horrible little bastards. I don't think there'd be much paternal interference on behalf of proven idiots.
I was a player, I had no control over the game. I expressed my feeling about the players over and over to my GM and he did little to nothing. After they died though, the game got better. For the most part. But the GM always liked to tie in the fact I killed a scion, while the other scion of vidar got off scott free. Needless to say, I eventually quit the game cause the GM stalled the game, had two idiots that ruined a lot of the plot and we were almost 300 xp and not even close to being demi-gods yet cause the GM wanted to continue down the long path of Hero he set out.
DeleteAlso, I should mention this. I was the only one being vocal about them screwing around cause it came the hardest on me what they did.
DeleteAnd if we erased them, then I would of been the leader of the group, cause they were having issues with a retired British Soldier being the leader. Something about military leadership and stuff like that. So they voted the Vidar scion into power. He was ok, but he was a Loner style character being the leader. It didn't make much sense. I was a rebel, so it didn't help I felt cheated out of that position and he was not the best leader.
In my Atlanta game, one of our PC's has been exiled from his Pantheon. He started out on rocky ground with the Gods, since he didn't believe they were Gods. His theory (supported by the secret MIB-type organization he was part of) was that the Gods were really just advanced, energy-based life forms. He wasn't shy about telling everyone this theory. His mother Hecate thought he was amusingly eccentric and would grow out of it, but he never really has.
ReplyDeleteEven as a God, he refuses to accept "prayers" and instead prefers secular "calls for assistance", properly directed to him after being filed with the public offices that his group of Paranormal Emergency Action Marines operate. He downplays everything mythical about any situation and basically refuses to be *worshipped* because as far as he's concerned he's just an evolutionarily advanced human and not a "God". That attitude, and the way he tells people to stop believing in Gods at all, really angered a lot of the Olympians.
It didn't help that as a Demigod he agreed (secretly) to a deal with an emergent Avatar of Light that represented Enlightenment. He and the MIB-agency he worked for at that point (Legend 6, I think? He didn't stop following their orders until they were destroyed later by the Titan of Unity brainwashing them all) provided the Avatar space to set up a hidden sanctum to build its forces up so eventually it could take on Aten and replace him as primary Avatar of Light. When all this came to light, his Band nearly abandoned him and he was put on trial by the Greeks to decide if they should kill him, banish him to Tartarus or forgive him for his stupidity. The vote was very narrow, but he was let go after having a curse placed on him that would instantly kill him if he ever collaborated with a Titanspawn again.
So, already on probation, he reached Godhood along with the rest of his Band and proceeded to continue offending the entire Pantheon and showing no interest in cultivating any contacts with them. He wouldn't adopt any Greek-type customs or traditions and insisted on being as secular and modern about everything as he could be. When he was finally assigned to work with Romulus (a much older Legend 9 ascended Scion in our game) to improve his manners and attitude, he balked at everything and got Romulus so angry that he threatened to kill 1/10th of all the PC's followers if he didn't shape up. (He didn't shape up).
Then the Band got themselves into a battle with a Titan Avatar down in Antarctica and when they realized she was attempting to become The Reaper, they fled the battle. The seven or eight Gods they'd rallied to their cause managed to overcome her and trap her, but Nerthus almost died and all the others were wounded to various degrees. The Band was pretty disgraced by that incident, especially the ones who have pantheons that honor Valor and Courage.
The end result of his cowardly retreat from battle (which he could have explained away if he'd had any social clout at all, or any respect, or any friends...) was that he was exiled from the Dodekatheon and his Sanctum reclaimed by the Greeks to be given to someone more worthy. He wasn't killed because his offenses haven't been violently against the Greeks and because I couldn't find ANYTHING to suggest the Greeks would willingly kill a God. Hecate, his mother, has disowned him as being a disgrace, which pretty much severs his final tie with them. So now he's Pantheon-less and homeless in the middle of a raging war in which his Band has a very, very high profile after they've been behind the recapture of two different Titan Avatars.
He's not in a good position and his attitudes and morals are making it virtually impossible for him to establish any contacts outside the Greeks. Sadly, I don't believe he's going to last much longer.
To borrow Woody's favorite solution to these kinds of problems: sounds like somebody needs to jump into a well!
DeleteBut *which* Well? There are so many.
DeleteWoody's going with just hitting them all. He's doing surprisingly well for having completely rewritten his personality four different times.
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