Question: Do the gods of each pantheon have 5 dots in every Virtue espoused by their pantheon?
Oh, dude. Definitely not.
While almost all gods of a pantheon are going to share the same basic set of Virtues, they obviously don't all just have them at maximum level with no variation. You don't need to look any further than the myths themselves to see that; Vidar may have five dots of Loyalty, but Loki probably doesn't, and while Hera obviously has five dots of Vengeance, Hestia's probably a lot more laid back. A god's Virtues are usually very clear in their personality and behavior, so it's often an easy thing to look at Set and Osiris and realize that one of these things clearly has more Order than the other.
The important thing, when working with the Virtues of the gods, is that you keep in mind that they should have appropriate amounts of that Virtue as shown in their myths, not as you would have statted them if they were PCs. Sure, it would be more convenient for a god (and sometimes the Storyteller playing him) to have one in each Virtue so he doesn't have to be as much at the mercy of his divine instincts, but unfortunately that's obviously not the case for anyone; everyone has crazy, insane, over-the-top Virtue reactions in their myths, so if you want Shiva to ignore his Endurance, you'll need him to have to climb over all five dots of it and possibly go crazy in the process. Gods are much less prone to trying to ignore their Virtues than Scions are, generally; not only do they probably have more of them, making it very difficult for them to do so, but they're old and set in their ways. Most of the time they probably believe that following that Virtue is a good idea; they might need a lot more motivation than just "well, I wish I could do it this way" to be convinced to ignore their own ancient settings.
It's also entirely possible for a god to have a Virtue that isn't one of his pantheon's native ones; just as Scions occasionally have foreign Virtues, so gods might, too (though it's likely to be more rare and shouldn't be overused!). Just as with normal Virtues, Storytellers should look at what the goddess does, says and embodies in her myths; if she's generally following her pantheon's pattern, all well and good, but if she repeatedly or spectacularly demonstrates caring a lot about a foreign Virtue, she might have that one instead. To give some examples, Tsuki-Yomi probably has Harmony, evidenced by his murderous freakout when confronted with Uke Mochi; I'd lay odds that Lugh has Vengeance, considering his epic destruction of the sons of Tuireann and decision to poison Bres to death even though he'd already defeated him and rendered him harmless. Those aren't Virtues the pantheon as a whole espouses, but those specific gods show them so strongly that it's reasonable to assume they're deviating just a little bit from the standard.
Again, that shouldn't be overused, however; Virtues are one of the things that ties a pantheon together as a whole and shapes their divine culture, and it should be an exception when a god doesn't have one of those Virtues, not a commonplace occurrence. Other gods of the pantheon are likely to be exasperated or just not understand a god with different values, and those who consistently fail to live up to the pantheon's Virtues are probably going to be viewed as substandard at best, possibly traitorous at worst.
A general guideline for god Virtues is usually to assume that they have the two most appropriate at a rating of five, and the others at levels that match their behavior in mythology; if they show a really, really strong inclination toward a foreign Virtue, you might want to replace their lowest native one with it, but only with good reason. Virtues are the general template for a pantheon's outlook on the world; there can be variation within them, but on the whole they should average out to a basically united front.
You mentioned Hestia as an example, but... Would she really count as an example, here? She's no longer a part of her pantheon, after all, instead being part of Muspelheim, as a Titan Avatar.
ReplyDeleteexamples that illustrate a point are still examples. She is probably a less then perfect example cause people might get a bit confused. But the object of illustrating the point is still the reason for using the example. Your comment really just comes off as bitter.
DeleteSure, but she was part of her pantheon, and when she was she wasn't nearly as vengeance-happy as most of the rest of them. Didn't even get upset over that whole thing with Dionysus.
DeleteBut if you'd prefer an example with someone who isn't a Titan, Persephone's a good standard for a Dodekatheon deity who doesn't show much inclination toward Vengeance. I'm sure she has some, but definitely not as much as someone like Apollo or Hera.
What happened to Hestia's virtues when she became a Titan?
DeleteSome probably converted to Dark Virtues, but not necessarily all. Like gods, Titan Avatars have times when they clearly show a Virtue other than a Dark one, so they aren't all necessarily locked into only the four, either.
DeleteI have not read the norse mythology much, but Loki comes across to me as someone with pretty low Loyalty... but am not sure whether it's how he's portrayed in mythology, or the influence of popular culture on how he is viewed.
ReplyDeleteNot popular culture but Christian viewponits change his character. In early stories he is pretty loyal to the pantheon and comes to there aid like during the war with the vanir the episode with the giant stonemason and the problem with thrym. It is the Christians making him demonic that turn him bad.
DeleteI'd say Loki's Loyalty is probably middle of the road. He demonstrates strong Loyalty when it comes to saving Odin from the giant or helping Thor in his adventures, but also obviously displays disloyalty in tricking Hod into killing Baldur and getting Idun kidnapped. Keep in mind that having any dots of Loyalty is more supernaturally loyal than mortals are, so even at only a couple of dots, he's got his moments of shining faithfulness to his buddies.
DeleteOdin's in the same boat, actually - sometimes totally loyal to others, sometimes the kind of dick who disguises himself to go punk his own son. They're both trickster gods, and as such are not really either good or evil, just people fashioned almost entirely of shenanigans.