Hey, everyone!
I know we promised only one post a day during the holidays, but we thought we'd break the rule early to let you know that the new system for Natures is now up and ready for anyone who wants to take a look! As we discussed in this week's vlog, we know it probably won't be everyone's cup of tea, but Natures in the original Scion were pretty pointless and easily ignored, so this system will go a long way toward changing that.
We've added some new Natures, removed some old ones that didn't fit Scion's game style very well, and given more concrete outlines for what kinds of things Scions can to do fulfill (or fail to fulfill) their Nature. The new system of rewards doesn't make it easier to get things from playing your nature - in fact, it's probably harder - but it does make those rewards more meaningful and important, which will hopefully contribute to a better game.
We're happy to answer any and all questions here. Go forth and fulfill the dictates of the inner you!
The new nature system looks fascinating and I cannot wait to try it out. Even if someone disagrees with determination, the crowning achievement here is the Does/Doesn't list for natures which can be used as a guideline and inspiration in any game with nature regardless of mechanics.
ReplyDeleteObservations/questions about the crunch!
1)It seems like Aspirant could be abused by a player really hamming up difficult training sequences.
2) Explorer seems somewhat easy for your average roleplayer to do just by biting at big plot hooks.
3) Judge has a high possibility of derailing a campaign by sticking with it frequently.
4) What about characters that rarely or never go into virtue extremity?
Great questions. Let me try to hack at them.
Delete1) In our opinion, difficult and grueling, should really mean difficult and grueling. Completing 1, even if hammed up, should be a feat. Completing a second in short time(probably has derailed you from your duties, but also) probably is near impossible.
Anne made me cut my intention out for space/attractiveness/brevity, but in our system a training regime like that, in order to succeed, would also require purchasing the ability afterwards(perhaps at a discount depending on the encounter).
2)Exploring only counts for determination when it isnt in the normal course of duties.
If zeus wanted to send you to alaska to deal with a ice giant problem, wouldnt be a determination unless:
You convinced him to send you to jotunheim to deal with it instead.
Went to alaska and found a cave of magic ice that could be eaten for possibly dangerous effects, and then ate some of those things.
Went to alaska, found a portal to jotunheim, and then went in and explored that.
I used alaska so it seems mundane, but you can up it for any circmstance as long as you up the other examples by the same margin.
3) If you're a judge(or really anyone with a lot of order) with a group of outlaws(or people who dont value the law and break it when need be) its gonna be tough for sure. But I think just like you know the bravo will run into danger and die a lot(thus probably putting the whole group in danger), the judge will not allow your tomfoolery and law breaking. If you're referring to the capturing a dangrous outlaw part, they generally are only in the story if the ST put them there, and the ST has to have done that for some reason, knowing there was a judge in the party(again, or anyone with order). Much like having a typhonian beast walk by a group of demigods might inspire the bravo to death risking stupidity.
4)Hard call here. They have extra protection from the rare times they might extremity. Or they can just spend the determination instead of willpower(kinda, by lowering the dice they roll) if they do go against their virtues. But for someone who never goes against their virtues(never had that happen, but I can imagine it exists), I suppose it doesnt do much.
I'd add that Explorer will get harder to fulfill with just plot hooks as time goes by, as well - the more places you've already been, the fewer are left that really count toward exploration.
DeleteYeah, games in which VE doesn't happen much - or players who never VE, which I've never seen but it could happen, I guess - won't get much out of this system. We love Virtues and they play a huge role in the characters' lives, but games that don't use them much won't probably find this all that exciting.
Glad you like the lists of dos and don'ts. We really felt that one of the problems with the original Nature system was that it was hard to tell what should really count, so a few more examples of what should and shouldn't get you Determination were one of our biggest goals. :)
The default system for Virtue Extremity is practically designed to make it VERY hard to enter one. Have you guys changed how that works?
ReplyDeleteYou can only enter one if you want to try resisting your Virtues without WP. Considering how easy WP is to get in Scion, I haven't had that come up very often. Usually it's only when the PC is running out or IS out. Generally if they need to resist a Virtue, they'll have a compelling reason to do so and be willing to drop the WP.
We changed those rules(cause they're horrible) so long ago we dont even remember them being changes. That went away with the "you can spend a WP to resist any mental or social power." Which was one of the first things we changed.
DeleteYeah, I had actually forgotten the original rules made VEs not happen much. Because that was silly and we didn't know why even bother to have them.
DeleteFor us, if you try to act against your Virtue, you roll it. If you fail, nothing happens and you go about your business. If you get any successes, you spend a point of Willpower to resist your Virtue (if you're a god, you spend a point of Willpower for every 2 successes you got). If you get more successes than you have current Willpower, you Virtue Extremity (and cannot try to spend Willpower to avoid it).
So the lower you are on Willpower when you try to fight your Virtue, the more likely that you'll freak out, but it's possible to Virtue Extremity even when your Willpower isn't very low if you roll impressively high (i.e., your Virtue was just really, really strong in that case).
You pay 1 willpower for every 2 successes(rounded up) starting at demigod. At god you're also rolling twice your virtue in dice.
DeleteGoze's fate would've turned out so differently.... Circe's too probably... Can NPC's gather these points?
ReplyDeleteI suppose they could if an ST was really into it, but considering the amount of bookkeeping it would require, I'd say no, probably not. It would be a big pain in the ass. Plus, it's nice for PCs to have the occasional thing they can do as the major actors of the story that NPCs don't get because they're not as important.
DeleteI think it's a pretty neat little subsystem. I'm about to run a game, albeit starting at chargen, so we'll see how it goes.
ReplyDeleteI will say I do have some concerns, fluff-wise if not crunch-wise. I'm not sure how I'd feel about a Gallant, for instance, using her Moment of Truth to avoid Valor Extremity or a Comrade using his Moment of Truth to avoid Loyalty Extremity.
The extremities are quite literally debilitating. Ignoring the extremity means they won't be stopping something they feel MUST happen... it backs up the character's choices as an individual as they develope into godhood within their pantheon...
DeleteI'd require the player to have a good fluff explanation for the moment of truth. If it's something that runs counter to her Nature, something along the lines of, "I can't go into Harmony extremity and murder all these mortal oil drillers - that would go against my nature as a Gallant!" would be fine. If it's something that runs along with the Nature, it'd probably have to be more like, "I've demonstrated that I'm a Gallant time and time again, so I can avoid my Loyalty extremity to save someone just this once."
DeleteOr, as the ST, you could also just rule that you can only use a Moment of Truth if it doesn't run counter to your Nature, so Judges can't be using theirs to get out of Order extremities.
Hmm, since both Survivor and Pessimist are gone, I've been trying to think of replacements for Folkvardr and Haji. ((Both of those natures were fairly weak and could be easily gamed in the old system, so I'm not too worried about it.)
ReplyDeleteHaji will probably just be a Comrade (or maybe a Martyr), and it will probably kill him.
Folkvardr, however, is giving me a harder time. Architect, Decoder, Pedagogue, or Visionary, probably.
Yeah, Folkvardr's a tough one. I guess it's more about finding which of those most fits the "inner Woody", and letting the others mostly be expressed by his Virtues?
DeleteTon of good options for him. It seems hes most decoder-y, but the others definitely fit.
Delete