Saturday, December 15, 2012

Life on the River

Question: Okay, I have three questions about the Pesedjet. First, did you make any changes to their godrealm? Second, how many moon gods do they have? Finally, do the four sons of Horus - the gods of the canopic jars - live in the overworld or the underworld?

Answers about the Pesedjet - hit it!

1) We actually haven't really decided what to do with the Egyptian Overworld, to tell you the truth. This is mostly because, in all technicality, they kind of don't have one. Egyptian cosmology is very specific about the world's parts and divisions and about the passage into the afterlife, but when it comes to the abode of the gods themselves, it's surprisingly sketchy. Some scholars believe that the gods were simply considered to live in the sky among the stars; others point out that the lack of a fixed overworld suggests that they were believed to be among humans, inhabiting the world as divine powers instead of living in a kingdom of their own. Another popular theory is that the gods were thought to have inhabited their temples, thus being concretely located in their centers of worship. Still others think they probably all resided in the paradisaical afterlife of Osiris' kingdom in Duat, not because they were dead but simply because it was the nicest place around, though this theory is usually countered by other scholars who point out that Osiris being trapped in Duat is clearly something that separates him from the other gods. Certainly some of the death- and judgment-aligned gods of the Pesedjet spend a lot of time in the underworld, but this is always in pursuit of their jobs, not necessarily because they live there. The only possible direct reference to an overworld home of the gods is in the Pyramid Texts, in which there is mentioned a place called On over which Ra was king, but there's no description of the place aside from a possible implication of it having grasslands.

Scion tries to solve this problem by just creating an Egyptian-flavored river-overworld called Iteru (literally just the word for the Nile), which is a nice compromise since it both sets the gods apart from humanity but also retains that idea of them as part of the most important features of the world, especially the all-important river. We really don't know if we're going to keep it, since it sticks in our craw with all its made-up-ness, but then again it's not doing a bad job, considering the lack of basis the writers had to work with. Our PCs have so far only encountered gods of the Pesedjet in Duat, the World or their private Sanctums.

2) The Pesedjet have a lot of moon gods! The most famous is of course Thoth, who bargained an extra five days out of the year by playing games with the moon and thereafter used it to set the course of time for humanity, but he's not the only one. Khonsu, a hawk-headed moon god variously associated with Thoth and other lunar deities, serves as a deity who embodies light in the darkness and illumination and protection for nighttime travelers. Bastet was originally associated with the sun, but her heavy syncretization with Artemis after the Greeks began to trade culture with the Egyptians saw her transform into a lunar goddess for several centuries until the end of the ancient Egyptian civilization. Finally, way back in the misty beginnings of the Old Kingdom, we find the ancient moon-god Iah (literally "moon"), a personification of the moon that lost ground to the younger moon-gods in the later centuries of Egyptian religion and in Scion terms is probably an ancient Titan.

3) Egyptian myth doesn't tell us where the sons of Horus reside, but since they have to do almost exclusively with protection of the dead, we consider them to have their residences in Duat. Our PCs have actually met them there, where they discovered that they have no taste at all for hanging out with people who spend millennia collecting human body parts.

8 comments:

  1. You can always go the Kane Chronicles rout and have them live in Duat, but have the Duate have multiple levels and realms, with the Egyptian god realm being one realm, with the realm of the dead, the realm of demons, and other's all together but seperate and hard to move between, especially the realm of the dead where Osiris is locked up. But I like Iteru, even if it is made up the writers gave a good in pantheon reason about the Pesedjet not wanting to share anything about their heaven lest they inspire mortals to try to reach beyond their station. Besides if you go that for into mythological PC territory then you need to start calling them the Ogdoad the "right" name for the pantheon.

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    1. Actually, the word Ogdoad refers to a very specific group of eight deities - Amun/Amunet, Huh/Hauhet, Kuk/Kauket and Nu/Naunet - none of which are playable in Scion (unless you consider Amun and Ra to be the same dude). They're ancient, primeval creator gods that are almost certainly Titans in Scion's setting, and the gods that Scion uses are definitely not members of the Ogdoad.

      You might be thinking of the Ennead - Atum, Shu, Tefnut, Geb, Nut, Set, Osiris, Isis and Nephthys - who are mostly playable gods in Scion. "Pesedjet" is actually just the original Egyptian word for "Ennead", which makes it more accurate than any of the other options.

      But the word Ennead also specifically refers to these nine gods and no others, so if you want to have people like Ptah and Sobek in the pantheon, Ennead's not really accurate, either. To be totally technically correct, you'd probably want to call them "Netjer", which is the generic Egyptian word for "gods".

      The original writers probably went with Pesedjet because it covered the major gods everyone knows about and could theoretically umbrella everyone else, and because Netjer is obscure and weird for most readers. Same reason the Greeks are called "Dodekatheon" (the twelve gods, which excludes people like Hades, Persephone and Hecate) instead of the more accurate "Theoi" (gods).

      We've talked about changing the names of some of the pantheons before (the "Aztlanti" is also a totally made-up name that doesn't even have the excuses of the pantheons above), but haven't gotten around to it yet, mostly to avoid player confusion.

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    2. This is probably nitpicking in the extreme, but have you ever considered renaming the Devas? While Deva IS the Sanskrit word for god, adding an 's' to the end to make it plural is an english convention and makes about as much sense as calling the Slavic gods the Bogs. The word Deva, and its synonym Devata, are sometimes used for the plural as well, but a better word might be Devgan. Though I admit, the idea of the Hindu Gods being called the Devata in contrast to their mortal enemies the Yazata would be pretty cool.

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    3. Yeah, the Devas (at least with the -s ending, though I suppose you could make the argument that this game is in English and therefore the English form of the word is fair game, but eh) could use a more proper round of terminology, too. I agree, Devata vs. Yazata is definitely cool - but the Yazata call their enemies daeva, so Deva is also cool...

      Most of the pantheon names could use a little tinkering, to be honest, but we don't want to make life too confusing for players who use the books or would otherwise not be able to find anything if we changed all the names. It's also very nitpicky - I mean, we'd feel better if their names were more accurate, but it doesn't exactly hurt the game if they aren't. Just our pride and our knee-jerk "fix it!" reactions.

      That's not even going into the problems of gendered nouns in various languages, too. "Gods" is used in a gender-neutral sense to mean both gods and goddesses in English, but some languages have totally different forms for make and female deities (aesir vs. asynjur, for example). But again, that's probably not helping anyone to fiddle around with it, so we figure players in individual games can use gendered forms as appropriate if they want to and avoid confusing everyone with words only a linguist could love.

      The worst example yet was working on the Alihah. In all technicality, "alihah" refers only to male gods, but according to my (admittedly limited) grasp of Arabic, the appropriate phrase to refer to both genders of deities would have been "al-Alihah-wa-al-Ilahah", and we didn't think anyone wanted to try to say that a bunch in common conversation.

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    4. Alalihahwaalllahah.

      Say that ten times fast.

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    5. I can, but only because I practiced when I was writing for them.

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  2. When I first came to Scion I knew about Greek, Norse and a little about Egyptian mythology.

    But I oh so foolishly took the books at face value for what they said about the other pantheons.

    Seriously you guys get super props for defictionalising the source material and providing links for the proper research.

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    1. Aww, shucks. We're glad you're getting some use out of us.

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