Monday, September 3, 2012

Paragon of Virtue

Question: Can a Scion use Justice boons on themselves? In mortal society, there doesn't seem to be a precedent for it; if a judge were on trial, he wouldn't also be presiding over it. But how about in myth?

Hmm, that's a really interesting question. There's not a lot of precedent for judges having to judge themselves in myth, either; most judge figures - your Forsetis, your Zeuses, your Jade Emperors - are generally beyond reproach. They seldom misbehave, and when they do it's usually more of a moral grey area, not really a breaking of any actual laws. Which makes sense, really; as the arbiters of heavenly, divine authority, they wouldn't be very good at doing their jobs if they couldn't be relied on to support that authority themselves as well as enforcing it on others. The few examples I can think of in which a judge figure does make a fully illegal move - Geb overthrowing his father Shu, for example - usually end in some other figure chastising them, not in them having to judge themselves. It seems that even in the realm of the divine, judges usually have to recuse themselves when they're the ones on the stand.

But moral ambiguity, personal atonement and accepting your just desserts like a champion are certainly awesome parts of many a heroic story, so from a Scion point of view, Justice poses interesting questions. We think, unfortunately, that you couldn't use Justice to punish yourself, even if you had genuinely committed a crime and wanted to make a gesture to set it right, either to appease those wronged, impress your pantheon-mates, or to assuage your own guilt. This is mostly because we don't think it's feasible for Scions to use Judgment on themselves, and most of the purview is predicated on successful uses of Judgment. A Scion using Judgment on themselves might at best be performing a weird sort of introspection, something that might be best left to roleplaying, and at worst gaming the system by using it as a sort of cheap personal Mystery, learning their own guilt or innocence without having to do any legwork for it.

In most cases in world myth, those who are penitent or upset about something they've done tend to seek out the law of the land and submit themselves for judgment, rather than taking things into their own hands. I could see a Scion wanting to use Justice on themselves in a pinch, but in most cases it makes more sense to go on a pilgrimage to confess before Svarozhich or Mithra and let them make the call. Keep in mind that there are slews of ways to atone for your crimes that don't involve the Justice purview; PCs who are genuinely contrite or who really want to make amends can take on any number of heroic quests, heavy burdens or personal excoriations to do so without ever having to involve Justice's more esoteric means of enforcing punishment.

As a caveat, there are some Justice boons that are specifically designed to be used partly one oneself - Rightful Ownership, for example, could be used if the item stolen belonged to you, and Sanctify Oath might apply to a group taking an oath that includes the judgmental Scion sanctifying it. I would allow a Scion to use Shield of Righteousness to save themselves as well, provided they were actually innocent; really, Justice boons that don't involve Judgment are a much better candidate for a Scion to use on themselves than those that are geared toward identifying and punishing evildoers.

For all you opportunists out there, though - no, you can't Pardon yourself.

6 comments:

  1. "The mythical people need to know that the head of their pantheon is not a crook! Well, I'm not a crook!"

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  2. I think this question came from one of our games, where my PC wanted to use GUILT APPARITIONS on himself after he took his own justice too far. He wanted to haunt himself with the guilt as a lesson so he would not fall pray to his inner Vengance again. As an actual police officer he is currently dealing with the line of who's justice to follow, his personal views of justice, the criminal justice code of the US, or the Greek code, where in all the myths he had read involved angry gods smacking down mortals so something as small as bragging about their weaving skills.
    (Ooooh Vengance, being a greek justice based Scion is so interesting with you.)

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    1. Vengeance is always a good time. For someone, anyway.

      Ah, I thought it might be something like that. I still don't think it would necessarily work well - using Judgment on oneself is a weird precedent to set and I don't think it does much for the game - but it sounds like your PC doesn't need Guilt Apparitions. If he's feeling bad enough about what he did that he'd want to use that in the first place, I imagine he can probably roleplay being haunted by guilt very effectively. GA is really for forcing people who normally wouldn't care to start feeling bad, after all, not for stacking on top of people whose consciences are already actively making their lives hell.

      Oh, that poor kid. Code of Heaven ruins everyone's day eventually.

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    2. SPEAKING OF CODE OF HEAVEN...

      The Code of Heaven for the Yazata includes 'Lying.' Does this mean, and yes I use a comedic example but there are probably much more serious versions I could use, that if a Scion asked if her ass looked fat in jeans and someone told her no and she screamed 'YOU'RE LYING' (Judgment) and they were (poor girl) then the Scion could use Psychic Prison on them and imprison them in a prison of their own mind for years over merely lying to her? That kind of makes (and admittedly, it's understandable considering how important justice is to their Pantheon) Justice MUCH more powerful for the Yazata.

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    3. Not anymore powerful then lying being illegal in a country and all justice boons working because of it. Or worse, running a stop sign? Psychic prison. Justice is difficult to deal with it because if the punishment doesnt fit the crime, other justice gods get angry at you. I wish there was a system for how that might work, but there is not.

      But re: yazata. Lying to them is like murder. Its unforgiveable. If that makes justice more powerful....i dont know. If murder is illegal, which it usually is....scions are usually a murdering all the time.

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    4. Yeah, the basis of Persian theology is that lying is bad. Always. It doesn't matter why you're lying, how, or for what reason; if you lie, you're helping the cause of evil and obscuring the truth that the world is founded on. There's no good excuse for lying, and if your lady friend doesn't want to hear she's fat in jeans, she should know better than to ask someone who is religiously mandated to tell her the truth.

      But John makes a good point - while Justice gods can punish you for tiny infractions like jaywalking or overcharging someone ten cents, most will try to make sure the punishment fits the crime, because that's what Justice is about. Using Psychic Prison and Scarlet Letter on everyone all the time no matter what they've done is what Justice Titans do, and it will pretty quickly get you a reputation as a bad guy among other Justice gods.

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