Tuesday, September 4, 2012

Aphrodite Ouranea

Question: Would it make sense to cast Aphrodite as a Titan Avatar? You have said that she has very limited associateds, and the most popular origin myth for her is her coming to exist out of the blood of the Sky itself...

To be entirely accurate, it's not Ouranus' blood Aphrodite's born out of. It's a bodily fluid of a distinctly more genitive kind, and it's the reason she's a goddess of sexuality and love. Not that lots of blood wasn't also involved.

Aphrodite's an odd figure; she certainly does have very cosmic, ancient origins, having sprung from the severed body of one of the most ancient Titans the Dodekatheon have to offer, but at the same time she's an exceptionally earthy figure, involved intimately in the affairs of gods and humans alike. I can definitely see the temptation to make her a Titan Avatar, because she does have very few associated powers and is far closer to the origins of the universe than are most playable gods.

Aphrodite's associateds problems stem from two facts: the Greek gods tend to be narrowly specialized, meaning most of them only have a few associateds to begin with, and Aphrodite's major association doesn't have a power attached to it. There is no Love purview, and while the original Scion rules tried to compensate for her by just dumping all the social Epic Attributes on her, this wasn't a good solution, since despite being exceptionally hot Aphrodite is pretty demonstrably not good at manipulation and generally not particularly well-liked for her scintillating personality. This leaves her in her current state, with only a few associations; she's one of the best examples out there of a god who is obviously very important but who isn't reflecting that in having a lot of associated powers. Stupid Greeks, always ruining the paradigm for everyone else.

But origins and associations aside, we don't think Aphrodite should be a Titan Avatar, and that's because she consistently and strongly breaks the first rule of Titanhood: she is very much not distant from the affairs of gods and mortals. She is a major player on Olympus, frequently involved in stories with other deities; she has love affairs with Ares and others, is caught in adultery by Hephaestus, gets wounded trying to defend her son Aeneas and complains to Zeus when things aren't going her way. Furthermore, she's directly involved in the affairs of humanity, from her kidnapping of Adonis to her seduction of Anchises, and she performs important functions for them as the goddess of love and sex. She had huge numbers of temples and devoted worshipers, thriving cults and hymns, and despite her personality foibles was generally viewed as a positive and necessary figure. In short, she has none of the hallmarks of a Titan Avatar.

If you're really interested in pursuing the idea of a Titanic Aphrodite, however, I'd point you toward an interesting development in later Greek philosophy, Plato's theory of the Two Aphrodites. Basically, he outlines the idea that there are two love goddesses named Aphrodite: the celestial, heavenly Aphrodite, goddess of pure love, overseer of the cosmic constant of emotion, and the vulgar or earthly Aphrodite, goddess of sexuality and human love. Basically, he separated the goddess into two parts, one in charge of the idea of divine love as a universal, cosmic power, and the other in charge of sexuality and earthly love of the sort mortals can understand. Further, he said that the heavenly Aphrodite was the one born solely of Ouranos, while the earthly Aphrodite is the one that Homer refers to in the alternate tale of her birth, in which she is the daughter of Zeus and Dione (also thus explaining why Zeus, so prone to shenanigans with all attractive women, never makes a move on Aphrodite, as she's his daughter). Under Plato's theory, it's the earthly Aphrodite who is prone to adultery and involved with humans and the other gods, while the heavenly Aphrodite presides distantly over love as a concept that spans the universe and trumps all other powers.

Now, this is a much later idea in Greek myth; it's clearly not part of the original cults and myths of Aphrodite, and it comes from Plato, to boot, who was prone to making up things like Atlantis or the original combined humanity myths in order to use them as allegorical and philosophical tales. But it became very popular with philosophers and actually gained some traction in medieval times when it was rediscovered by Europeans, and if some parts of it are obviously all Plato (the assertion that heavenly Aphrodite governs all homosexual male love, for example, while all love for women falls to earthly Aphrodite, is Plato and his preference for ephebe lovers all over), others have been played with by storytellers, philosophers and writers for several centuries. It's definitely not something I'd point to as original Greek mythic source material, but it's a very symbolically ripe place to mess around with if you're running an Aphrodite-heavy story or really want to explore the goddess's character.

Mess around with Eros, while you're at it - he's got two versions, too, one of them the Eros, son of Aphrodite and Ares, who is the god of love who hangs out with the Olympians, and the other the cosmic, Titanic Eros said to be one of the first things to exist, younger only than Gaia, Ouranos and Chaos itself. The dual versions of Aphrodite and Eros have to do with the popularity of the later Greek philosophical idea of love as the most powerful force in the universe, and however you choose to translate that idea into Scion, it can't fail to be interesting.

9 comments:

  1. Definitely something to consider in a game sometime. The Two Aphrodites is something I've never heard of, and while I'm skeptical to ever consider Plato "Greek Myth," the idea is something very cool.

    (I once said that the proof of Plato's belief in combined humanity was that when we truly meet our soulmates, we fuse together again into a four-armed, four-legged chimera who feels a sudden compulsion to assault Mount Olympus in Greece. Probably the reason you chose to honeymoon in Greece without knowing it!)

    More on the topic, I prefer the Zeus and Dione version from Homer, though very few mythology books (nor Renaissance art) like to use that version, so I had to give up at some point.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. It's no wonder - Aphrodite as sprung from Ouranos was much more popular in most of her cults than Homer's alternative version. There's also a lot of confusion about whether he's being metaphorical (since "Dione" basically just means "goddess" and she doesn't really turn up anywhere else), or whether Dione might actually be another name for Aphrodite herself (though that is confusing when Homer talks about her going to Dione for comfort).

      Alas, Aphrodite isn't in the business of making peoples' lives easy.

      Delete
    2. Well, there's always the question of whether or not a Titan Avatar could, through proper fatebonds, relics, or cults, be strapped down into a "God/dess" anyhow. In fact, I believe I have a question very similar to that in the queue right now... (Though I can't be sure because my phone likes to eat my questions.)

      Delete
    3. I actually just wrote up that question this morning (it'll go live tomorrow). :) So you can be sure it went through.

      Delete
    4. It is dramatically odd that Zeus has not made any passes at Aphrodite.

      What were your reasons for rejecting the Emotion purview written by Brent? That seems to fit Aphrodite quite well, and there are several emotion gods running around.

      Delete
    5. I believe there's also a philosophical school of thought that Zeus doesn't take a shot at Aphrodite because he's worried he'd like it too much - her powers might actually force him to treat her specially if he succumbed, and he likes philandering with the pretty ladies, but he doesn't like it enough to want to end up devoted to one. Similar to his reasoning for marrying her off to Hephaestus - she's too dangerous to have running around all single and seductive.

      It's not really a rejection! It's more that we usually like to do our own work, so while Brent's Emotion purview is some good stuff, it's not going the direction we probably would if we decided to really include a Love/Whatever purview for the likes of Aphrodite and Ishtar. We also have some marked philosophical differences when it comes to the core idea of the purview in the first place - there are very few true gods of any emotion other than love, in our opinion, and so the idea of a specialization-style purview for it hasn't been working for us conceptually.

      But hey, we still do talk about doing something with Love/Emotion in the future, and if we do I'm pretty sure we'll go bounding in Brent's direction for tips and tricks.

      Delete
    6. Would be really awesome to see a Love/Emotion purview. The thing is, I feel right now there are a lot of knacks that can be used to make targets feel certain ways about YOU, but in mythology it is very clear that the Gods of Love and Despair hold dominion over the heartstrings of mankind. Aphrodite brings Dido to ruin through passionate love for Aeneas, for example. Where's the ability to make a person feel one way for another without you being involved except as divine matchmaker? Where's the ability to take a friendship spanning decades and destroying it over a third party? All of this seems very Divine, and yet Scion doesn't really have an avenue for it unless YOU are the third party.

      Delete
    7. Don't we have Aphrodite, Harmonia, Eros, Anteros, Phobos, and Deimos in the Dodekatheon alone?

      I think many of the ideas presented in the Concept to Execution thread could apply to an Emotion purview. Knacks like Engender Love are the quick and dirty, while an Emotion purview is harder, better, faster, stronger.

      Delete
    8. Yes, the Dodekatheon alone... and therein lies the problem. Other pantheons generally don't have those; you have your odd-men out, like Guanyin, who I could reasonably see as a goddess of compassion, but for the most part gods personifying emotions other than love aren't a thing that happens much outside the Greek sphere. Love the Greeks as we do, we don't want to invent an entire purview that only they are going to be using, because they already have one of those. So while I can see a Love purview, because that really is a widespread thing across a lot of pantheons' deities, I'm not feel the Emotion purview as much, because it just isn't the same kind of globally mythic idea.

      Of course, despite our disagreement on this point, Brent is still awesome, so I have no qualms recommending his purview to those who want to use it. But it's not in a form that works for me, currently.

      Delete