So in this two part series, talk to me about which boons and knacks you think are too powerful. Which have come up in your game maybe too iften or you find too many people are taking. Were looking for powers that seem grossly more powerful then other powers at their same level. Take into consideration the cost of the power and how often it is usable. Also remember that knacks have levels. Compare them against other knacks on same tier.
I'll make some comments but I won't tell you you're wrong because this is all about your experiences in your games.
Already on my work table are:
Enech(this is a long time coming)
Animal aspect
Theme music
Itztli
Fwyh(pretty sure I already know what I'm fixing here and it won't be a huge change but think will fix it a lot)
Thank you all for your help.
Attached picture is one of the boon books we use during game. It's almost 200 pages long!
My players totally feel free to comment and I promise I won't hate you.
I've used alot of your rules and tweaked them to my liking / game style. I also threw in a few of mine in the mix. The concept of ''per X Boons the Scion possesses'' is much to my liking and I tried to keep it.
ReplyDeleteThere are fundemental differences, but the ideas and mechanics of the Purviews are almost the same as yours. Knacks mechanic is where I can see the bigger gap.
My house rules, knacks and boons take up 277 pages. It's an all-Aesir game, so I didn't waste time with the other PSPs. I'm starting soon implementing these rules, so I'll have a chance to test em out.
My first tought after completion was: My PCs will never get enough XP to buy half of the awesome boons they would want. ^^ I got to look into that, since XP rewards are based on a 5-dot Storyteller system. I've ramped up my rewards, but it still feels lacking as my PCs are approaching godhood.
Anyhow, if you want I could send it to you. You could despise me for how I twisted it and perhaps see if any of the additional knacks or boons are to your liking.
Now for your question directly:
-I always wonder if Baelfyr is too powerful. I like how it works and its logical, but I can't help but feeling relieved that my PCs aren't invested in Fire and that I'm the one with Surtr and the fire giants.
-Magic has an awesome way to save Legend points with sacrifice, but a lot of spells cost nothing or very few. I felt the costs should at least be on par with others, and maybe a bit more, since as is I feel players might not sweat about severing their own foot and the like, gladly paying up the low (if any) cost.
-Blind status is a -4 dice penalty. Not very incapacitating at godhood. I feel Darkness is a bit lacking in this regard.
-Oubliette scares me. There is no limit to how many you can dispatch with it. Do you need Oubliette to try to rescue someone ? If not, how does it figure out from a roleplaying perspective; how does a Scion know how to delve in the abyss to rescue his ally merely by spending Legend.
Personally, I'd love to see it - new ideas are always fun, even if we end up not agreeing with them. :)
DeleteOubliette (and Constellation Weaver over in Stars, which does basically the same thing) is really scary. As written right now, you have to have the boon to try to rescue someone who was thrown away with it, but I'd also consider allowing thematically dangerous and appropriate quests into the Titanrealm of Darkness to try to rescue that person, too (on the theory that that's the abyss they're being thrown into, kind of, but it'd need good justification and planning on the part of the players for me to go with it).
Hmm... John isn't online yet today so I can't ask him about nitty gritty details like Magic sacrifices. I want to say that there may be some no-regrowing/only normal healing clause on that, the way there is for Itztli, but I'm not sure. If there isn't, we may want to look into it, because you're right, otherwise it's a pretty piddling cost for those with high Stamina or a Health character in their groups.
What's the email adress to send it to ?
DeleteI'm revising some stuff tonight and I will probably send it tomorrow.
ampstorytellers@gmail.com. :)
DeleteSo this isn't so much 'over-powered' but something I noticed just a second ago while perusing the knacks.
ReplyDelete'Doin' Fine' can only be gained by Scions with Positive Epic Appearance. This makes sense, of course, but it's also the start to a branch of Knacks that make sense for both Positive and Negative - Mask the Divine, Chameleon, and Malleable Allure. Yet a Scion of Negative Appearance can NEVER get those three knacks unless he/she gets Visage Great and Terrible, and what if they don't want that? It seems a little weird.
Can't buy should read cant use
DeleteSo unless you get up to The Visage Great and Terrible, you have to buy a Knack you can't use ?
DeleteJust making sure I understand
Well, you dont have to do anything, but you could if you chose to.
DeleteMmmm, don't like knack discrimination against the ugly. I'm cool with them not having knacks that are reserved for pretty Appearance, but barring a tree to them unless they purchase literally useless knacks seems like overkill.
DeleteThis seems like a requirement that might be able to be removed.
DeleteI can think of ways to make a Negative Epic Appearance character with Doin' Fine, where it makes sense. Heck, there was that one example on the Scion Forums a while back where a character's Negative Appearance was built on the idea that all his accumulated battle wounds, all over, were just still fresh and raw. Against that backdrop, what's another few injuries?
Or maybe rather than camouflaging injuries, the negative EAPP is just a teriffic (hah!) distraction or aversion, and it's hard to tell that character is wounded because your eyes just won't go there.
I do have some pretty great visions of negative Appearance characters just shrugging their shoulders at injuries. I mean... shoot, there's an arrow through my eyeball, but ain't no thang.
DeleteGrendl played a character that exactly matched this description. He had extended youth and was an old slave that participated in the Alamo. He never visibly healed any wound he took, and that was his NEE.
DeleteI cannot remember which game I saw that in, though.
While I think it's a worth while level 2 dex knack, Why is Whirlwind shield in that tree? I always thought it was odd placement. Perhaps it would fit better after ATCGWild and before Roll With it? Roll with it, with high enough dex, is amazing.
ReplyDeleteWhy is Solipsistic Well-Being a stamina knack? It seems like the anti-stamina knack.... Perhaps stack that at the end of Skin Shedding?
Also, I LOVE skin shedding. You guys know i do. But I feel like it should be a lvl 2 alternate after body armor.
Thats all!
Whirlwind Shield is in that tree because it's specifically for stopping missiles - it's the same skillset as Microscopic Precision in that it's about affecting very tiny things very accurately, the way you need to to bounce bullets off your dagger or whatever. I could see moving it, but probably not to the ATCGW tree - that one's about your athletic skills, and blocking arrows and bullets is a different sort of specialization, I think.
DeleteI definitely agree about Solipsistic Well-Being - I've thought that should be moved to Intelligence for a while now.
Anne beat me to posting, so agree with what she said.
DeleteAnd yeah, I hate solipsistic where it is. I ....it makes zero sense. Although Im also not sure where it would go or if I like it at all.
Skin shedding I can see it as level 2, maybe even higher. But not after body armor. That sort of gives you extra skin. I could see it somewhere more about manipulating body.
Appearance...it should probably be in appearance.
The reason I mentioned after body armor is because it's about how your body chooses to deal with it. One way is to become tougher, one way is to lose the damaged layer. Made sense to me.
DeleteI'd leave it in stamina though...
I think Skin-Shedding has thematic ties to both Stamina and Appearance, but Stamina seems like the easier option.
DeletePlacing it behind Body Armor would fit the thematic of growing a supernatural layer of protection over yourself and then Skin-Shedding would shuck off that protection to escape.
Placing it behind Self-Healing would fit the thematic of slipping out of all your skin and then regrowing new skin a split second later.
Placing it behind Detail Variation would fit the thematic because that allows you to change the color/texture of your skin and an expanded knack might allow you to leave your old skin behind.
Speak Hu. On the one hand this boon is incredibly thematic and I absolutely love it to death. There is no end to the number of neat and interesting things you can do with this boon. I adore it so much that I am hesitant to bring up its negatives.
ReplyDeleteOn the other hand, it combines with a few other social knacks to really step on the toes of a lot of other boons. Animal Command, Sabot, System Failure, Safely Interred, Rust/Shine, (poor mans) Control Fire, Antidote, and those are just a few.
Especially compared to Tsukomagami.
DeleteTsukumo-gami isnt used in our games. It is definitely "underpowered" as a whole and we'll change a lot of it if we get to it.
DeleteOther tom: Tell me more about it. Im slightly confused. Speak Hu shouldnt work on fire...or poison...or animals. The rest...maybe although it shouldnt do exactly those things, I dont think. Give me some examples.
I will try my best! Let's start with the wording of Speak Hu, "The Scion with this Boon has learned the first principle of the powers of the gods, that of hu, the divine word of creation and power; with it, he can order the world around him and exert his commands over anything within his sight. Whenever the Scion chooses to pay this Boon’s cost, he may use any social Knack at its normal cost against anything around him, whether it be animal, vegetable, or even inanimate."
DeleteWe can see from the text Speak Hu works on 'anything'. Animals are explicitly indicated, as are plants, and inanimates. Inanimates really opens the door to a lot of options, including things like fire, water, earth, and air.
An example of Animal might be Overt Order a dog to chew upon the ropes binding your hands behind your back (assuming you had enough time). An example of plants might be Hard Selling a thick forest to trip up pursuers with their roots and branches. An example of inanimates would be commanding a rock to fall down, or commanding a river to speed up, or commanding the wind to be still. Assuming you could see the poison at the time of injury you could command it to stop spreading. If you have the ability to see at a microscopic level things get even more fun.
Even if the intent of the boon was limited to 'Solids' there are still a massive number of ways the boon can be used by a creative player. I can provide more specific examples if you wish.
I really do love Speak Hu. I have never met a boon that helps me think outside of the box more. But, from a game design perspective it probably does too much.
Wow, Will have to talk to anne about that in the morning. I came here to type that it definitely shouldnt step on anything other purviews toes. But now Im not sure.
DeleteWill require more thought and breaking down with anne what exactly Hu means.
Yeah, this one is going to take some thought.
DeleteOf course, Taiyi simultaneously has some of the weakest boons around and the strongest boons around.
ReplyDeleteMeanwhile, being able to make some of your boons use an alternative relic is less inspiring than Absorption of Me. Being able to wave your hand and make quantities of plutonium larger than your house is downright broken, even if it is expensive.
Meanwhile was not the best word to use in that situation! "For example" would make more sense.
DeleteTaiyi, like tsuko isnt useable in our games. We leave it up for others in case they need it. But its a horrible psp that needs a rewrite badly. Its wrong on all levels, balance, fun, growth from 1-10, and mythologically. Its horrible
DeleteI eagerly await pillag-- I mean, seeing what you're going to do with the Shen's PSP, because frankly at this point I have p.much no idea.
DeleteI have lots of ideas, but no time. Hopefully soon!
Delete