How many success should an average challege be at Hero? Demigod? God?
Ummm.....you cant think of things like that. Challenges should be built around the ability of the PCs, or at least be made for a particular thing, or by a particular npc who would have set the "challenge" of it.
But even past that.....at legend 9, a 40 could be a respectable roll, but by legend 12, over 100 could be reasonable. The scale is just so huge that saying a challenge for god is just....almost a nonsensical statement.
But, Im sorry, I cant really answer your question. Its not really a question that has an answer. There are way too many factors to boil something down to average challenge per section of the game.
Hrmm....but maybe I could do it per legend.
The following chart has an average challenge for someone who is good at the task they are attempting to succeed at, by legend. Without a giant investment in resources, they should expect to succeed at this challenge the first time, about half the time.
Legend 2: 5
Legend 3: 7
Legend 4: 9
Legend 5: 13
Legend 6: 20
Legend 7: 29
Legend 8: 39
Legend 9: 50
Legend 10: 65
Legend 11: 80
Legend 12: 100
Woo, there ya go. Maybe that helps? You really shouldnt use this scale too much, if at all.
Ummm.....you cant think of things like that. Challenges should be built around the ability of the PCs, or at least be made for a particular thing, or by a particular npc who would have set the "challenge" of it.
But even past that.....at legend 9, a 40 could be a respectable roll, but by legend 12, over 100 could be reasonable. The scale is just so huge that saying a challenge for god is just....almost a nonsensical statement.
But, Im sorry, I cant really answer your question. Its not really a question that has an answer. There are way too many factors to boil something down to average challenge per section of the game.
Hrmm....but maybe I could do it per legend.
The following chart has an average challenge for someone who is good at the task they are attempting to succeed at, by legend. Without a giant investment in resources, they should expect to succeed at this challenge the first time, about half the time.
Legend 2: 5
Legend 3: 7
Legend 4: 9
Legend 5: 13
Legend 6: 20
Legend 7: 29
Legend 8: 39
Legend 9: 50
Legend 10: 65
Legend 11: 80
Legend 12: 100
Woo, there ya go. Maybe that helps? You really shouldnt use this scale too much, if at all.
I think I am missing something obvious here, and it's the same thing as those difficulty 75 rolls in the Titanrealms.
ReplyDeleteI don't understand how someone could hit 100 successes half the time at Legend 12 without a massive investment of resources and just a standard attribute + ability roll (+ fatebonds).
At the lower levels, it makes sense, as it seems to scale reasonably well (assuming you max out the relevant attribute and ability at legend 3 and each subsequent legend). But when you start to hit Legend 7, the difficulties seem to be going up faster than epic successes (perhaps assuming higher auto suxx from fatebonds) and by the time Legend hits 12, I don't see how you could hit those massive difficulties short of phenomenal luck or arete.
At Legend 12:
46 automatic successes from a maxed out epic attribute
+10 successes from a maxed out facebond
+12 successes from spending a legendary deed
+12 successes from a channel of a maxed out virtue
+10 successes (approximate average) from a maxed out dicepool of 24 rolled dice
=
90 successes
Is there an assumption of equipment bonuses here or bonuses from simply possessing some purviews, boons or knacks that I am not seeing?
What am I missing here?
Fuckin facebonds....
DeleteIs that Fate's version of Facebook? Complete with Fate 'liking' or 'disliking' your deeds and giving you bonuses or successes?
DeleteFacebonds are obviously what Geoff has.
DeleteAnon, this isn't your fault, we still don't have all our god-level cult Fatebond rules up yet. Starting at Legend 9, Fatebonds from cults provide ten dice in addition to the ten successes. Starting at Legend 11, if you have two positive Fatebonds to something, it grants fifteen of each instead of ten. Also, keep in mind that hopefully this person is stunting, and that stunt dice are autos at god-level, so that adds a couple more.
And alas, this is why charts of "average rolls" simply don't work. You know what instantly makes your projected Scion succeed at that roll without even having to spend much? Arete. But not every Scion has Arete, but some do and have to be accounted for, and so on. A simple chart of numbers just won't work for that reason, so, as John said above, there are too many factors and it's not really answerable.
John's out doing other nerd things tonight, but I'm sure he'll come explain where all his math came from later. For the moment, though, I'd give the same advice we always give STs: don't make a chart. It's useless. Check your players' sheets, figure out what their average rolls are, and adjust your difficulties according to how hard you want it to be for them to succeed.
There are just so many buffs to rolls. From appearance knacks to relics, tons and tons of boons, blood meads, fatebonds....just so many things. Already, at legend 10, the god characteres are throwing around 90s without deeding or channeling the rolls they're very very good at, and sitting at least 60 at rolls they're pretty good at.
DeleteToo many dice adders really reduce the value of epic attributes. :(
Delete...Uhm, seriously? They don't.
DeleteAt ~100 successes still means roughly half of it is done by Epic Attributes. That is quite the big amount.
And even if they later manage, say, 150 successes, the 46 autos are still a third of that.
Two points of epic attributes difference are still really notiveable, even with dice-adders and what-not.
And Epic attributes provide knacks, wich should not be underestimated by any means.
With too-few dice-adders the dicerolls get unimportant. Vanilla Scion? You have more Epic Attribute Autos than dice. And that is ~boring~.
I actually think it's a very good thing that Epic Attributes aren't the be-all and end-all. As Jef said, it's boring if you're just like, "I buy one stat, I win all the time," and with more options for buffing yourself, more different kinds of characters can be competitive at various things without having to all invest in the same stats. It's a good thing that the guy with Magic and Arete: Athletics can sometimes compete with the guy with more Epic Strength; he's finding a way to succeed that fits his character, and that kind of thing happens in mythology all the time.
Delete