Question: How does Unseen Shield react to incapacitating but not damaging boons like Web of Stars? If a person inside the Shield decided to use Starfire, then would he lose his protection immediately, or at the end of 10 ticks when the actual damage happens? Can a person inside the Shield summon Star Beasts and order them to attack without losing its protection?
Every now and then, players like to play a game called Let's Try to Circumvent the Safeguards on the Guardian Purview. We're not really sure why; it's been made very clear in both our games and on the website that Guardian can't be used to harm anyone or hidden behind if you're in the process of being aggressive, but still sometimes someone just has to test those boundaries. Of course, as the quesetions above illustrate, there are always some grey areas when it comes to what "violence" or "aggression" means in context of Guardian boons, but that's why this blog is here to clear up the confusion!
Firstly, boons that involve directly attacking another person in any way always prevent you from remaining in an Unseen Shield. An "attack" doesn't necessarily mean you're trying to inflict damage; tying someone up, throwing someone across the room, blinding someone with light or making someone fall over unconscious are all attacks, regardless of the fact that they don't technically deal damage. If you're trying to do something that directly restrains a person against their will or deprives them of their basic personal rights in some way, you're still assaulting them and Guardian is still not going to stand for any of your shenanigans. Attempting to snare someone in a Web of Stars would still kick you out of an Unseen Shield's protection, because you're directly taking an aggressive action against someone else, regardless of whether or not the web technically causes them physical pain.
Of course, not every incapacitating boon or knack is disallowed by Guardian; it depends on what you're doing. If it's a passive effect - for example, Lasting Impression, which for negative-Appearance users inflicts Willpower loss and dice penalties - then Guardian will probably give you a pass, because it's not that you're attacking that person but rather that the sight of you is disturbing and they're upset about it. On the other hand, using Paralyzing Confusion on someone to make them fall over gibbering will get you punted out of that protective bubble at light speed, even if you aren't planning to hurt the person you've affected, because you took a direct action designed to incapacitate that person and render them defenseless. Storytellers will probably make their own calls about what is and isn't allowed, but we think it's pretty obvious when something is a generalized or defensive power and when it's an aggressive act that isn't playing nice with Guardian's non-aggression policy. A useful rule of thumb (that doesn't cover everything, but is a good general starting point) is that if it's something you could be charged with a crime for doing if you did it with completely mundane means, Guardian won't let you do it; you won't go to jail for being ugly, but duct-taping someone into submission or intentionally drugging them into having a seizure sure as hell qualifies as assault.
So yes, your web-slinging will leave you vulnerable to retaliation if you go after an enemy. Starfire, which is one of the most dangerous and damage-heavy powers in the game, most definitely will, and it will do it immediately, not ten ticks after you decide to go for it. Your Unseen Shield does not care about the exact tick someone else takes damage; what it cares about is that you're actively taking an action to hurt someone, and the second you start doing that, you're out. Starfire may take ten ticks to actually hurt everyone, but you're spending those ten ticks concentrating your celestial energy to blow it out and kill everyone, so you're already taking a violent action as soon as you start (albeit a slow one). The same goes for every other action in the game; you're out of the shield the moment you start swinging your sword to hit someone, and that goes for all five ticks of your swing, not just the one that actually hits somebody (or misses, as the case may be). Your ass is already being obviously violent, and the Guardian purview doesn't need to wait around to see how successful you are at it.
However, there's good news in the third part of this question for the squishy social characters out there: you can indeed order creatures to attack on your behalf without leaving your protective hamster ball of safety. While ordering a gaggle of Star Beasts or Flameborn Spirits or Jotunblut'd up squirrels to tear your arch-rival apart while you hide behind impenetrable invisible walls certainly qualifies as you being a dick to him, you are not personally actually taking any violent actions, and as long as you don't do anything but give orders, you're home free. It's the creatures that are acting aggressively and are not allowed into your zone of protection. Just be careful about what you may or may not do to help them, because Guardian will not accept "but I was helping my friends so it doesn't count when I hurt others" as a valid reason to not deliver you into the waiting jaws of your enemies.
The point of the Guardian purview is that it is meant to defend and protect, and that's the only thing it's meant to do. It is not meant to give you an advantage in combat or help you hurt anyone in any way, so the second you start trying to use it that way, you're probably doing it wrong. When in doubt, ask your Storyteller if you'll be disqualified before you take the action instead of doing it and then trying to argue your way back to safety.
Stop trying to shenanigans work around guardian. Bad readers.
ReplyDeleteSo, would you say Overt Ordering someone to shoot/stab/harm someone else (or even themselves) would cause you to get kicked out? What about verbal assaults (with or without knack)?
ReplyDeleteNope. Words will not get you removed from the bubble; you may be telling someone to be violent, but you are not being violent yourself (and using those powers is no guarantee they'll be violent, either, since they might resist you). If you tell someone to take a violent action and they do, they'll get booted, but you'll be fine.
DeleteWhich means you can be the worst to people socially and still be protected; you just can't lift a hand or point a power. Alas, Guardian only protects against danger, not jerks.
Eh....Im not sure. I guess annes correct here, but it feels wrong. In the moment I might change my mind.
DeleteThanks for the clarifications!
ReplyDeleteI admit, the Starfire question was just me trying to see how far I could push it 3:), but the other two scenarios have been genuinely confusing me for a while now.
Hmm...you guys don't answer questions in order do you? Cuz I'm pretty sure I sent in two other questions before this one...unless they got eaten up by the box.
We answer them generally in order, but if there are several of the same type in a row, or that seem to be from the same person, we break them up to give the blog a little variety.
DeleteWere you the Heku/Devas questions? Those are already queued up to post later this week. :)
Am I that obvious? Yup, those are the ones. I'll look forward to them :)
DeleteI feel like both examples that Anne okayed (Overt Order and unleashing your creatures on an enemy) should probably go ahead and kick you out of the bubble. They both just seem so contrary to the *spirit* of the Guardian purview, as well as the reason for the Shield itself. (You aren't being a very good Guardian if you're just hiding away in relative safety.)
ReplyDeleteSo, i'm moving the setting to another system because i generaly dislike whilewolf systems. In that system, i'm setting up a system where a god or scion with Guardian could declare someone the guardian of a town, person, house, whatever. So, a scion might set you up as the "protector of the house" of his cult or something. It seems to me that that declaration should carry with it some power and ability, and that, if the enemy stands at your treshold, sword in hand, ready to kill, you should be able to respond in combat and bring the force of your duty and position as divinely apointed protector to bear, even if that means the guardian purview technicly helps someone out in combat. What do you think of that idea? It's another way of setting up a defence, only instead of being a glowy energy barrier, it's a man with a sword and a title.
ReplyDeleteAlso: this system has some natural overlap between some purviews, so diffrent purviews will naturaly overlap. This obviously overlaps somewhat with both War and Justice, but that's not really a problem.