This came up in the comments for this post.
It seems some STs are using our boon Out of the Frying Pan, but are perhaps not being as horrible with it as they should be. This can create a very overpowered boon because the PCs will have no fear of using it, and then its just a happy teleport spell.
They need to fear it.
It needs to be the same level of fear as Deus ex. The PCs should only think about using it when they're already in horrible danger, and even then they need to fully understand that there is a chance instead of a couple of them dying, that all of them will end up dead. It is DANGEROUS!
The first complaint was that it derails the story. This was my reply:
If you're the level of ST that cant handle dealing with derailing of story(its the players story too, this is often just adding to the story, not derailing it) then you really have no business STing demigod. Demigod is where the difficulty ramps up a lot(as an ST). Dealing with this boon will be the least of your worries.
Then the 2nd part was about how it doesnt matter what if they roll poorly cause the 2nd half of the table(1-5) isnt that bad.
The 2nd half of the table should get increasingly more horrible. We have language and word choice so that words have meaning. Dangerous, hostile, imminently, mortal. These words all mean very specific things.
Dangerous wilderness. At least one pc should land on something bad. Either a difficult(legend appropriate monster) or a very sharp rock, or something poisonous, or in acid. Something very bad should happen to at least one person. This something bad will often end up delaying the party a bit, if not injuring one so badly that they cannot come with you on another jump because of unconsciousness or death.
Extremely hostile, imminently dangerous place: Several people(if not everyone) in the group should be immediately taking dmg. This is either the realm of some element where everyone without immunity will immediately take dmg, or its a situation where there are flying enemies to slowly murder you because you dropped into tarpits.
Hostile underworld or axis mundi: The underworld you can deal with with spirit lamp. But the psychopomp needs to have it, and get it off before the horrible starts. I have almost all underworlds deal dmg if you cant make virtue rolls of the appropriate virtue at increasing difficulties. And if you dont have death senses, ghosts wreck you. So everyone is teleported to an underworld where they immediately take 1-2 different forms of dmg. For axis mundi, put them on olympus and have them deal with the massive monsters all over it(monsters get a free swing probably unless someone has an amazing JB), or into the horrible memory erasing waters outside of Loa town(can never remember that name).
Hostile Terra: I usually have chaos gods(becuase they rarely have guardian/sun/justice) to end up at the colossus where everyone takes unsoakable Lethal = to (darkness+chaos+illusion) boons - (gaurdian, justice, sun) boons. We had a chaos, darkness demigod die instantly, from no dmg to full agg death because he used out of the frying pan and got here. If they do have gaurdian sun justice I have prepared something equally as horrible.
Mortal Enemy: This should be serious shit. If they can kill their enemy without at least one of them dying, then he isnt mortal, and doesnt apply here. Instead you probably find his boss. The enemy should be at least 1 legend higher then they are. He should be at full legend, and well armed, and ready and he should hand their asses to them. The only way to win should be a few of them die, or they escape.
For all of these instances, you should also have them all roll wits+awareness when they get there. Poor rolls react slower(botches react very slow). Perhaps they all take a 2nd hit from the enemy before they know where they are. Or they take a 2nd hit from the environmental dmg before they figure it out. If at least the chaos scion has a high wits+awareness then they can get out of there in a hurry, but if that guy botches or has a horrible wits, then they're all dealing with the new place they found.
As an ST, if you know someone has this boon, you should be prepared for them to use it. Have a couple prepared things for each roll in the back of your head or in a notebook so you arent thrown off when someone uses this.
Edit: Virtues. Many of the places you end up will have virtue rolls from people in your group? Anyone have courage? They may refuse to leave the first time, or the 2nd time. Endurance? Probably gonna stay when you drop them in the lava pits.
Do they all have willpower left over when they were just fighting for their lives? Are you going to bring them somewhere they extremity? Are you going to bring them somewhere their other virtues go off? Can the vengeance person leave the mortal enemy behind? Can the order scion let the enemie's misdeeds go unpunished?
Is it in the RAW that you can't transport someone with Psychopomp/travel boons if they're unconscious, or is that a rule you put in place? I can't remember, but if others aren't using that rule, they probably have less fear of someone getting knocked out preventing them from escaping again.
ReplyDeleteProbably an HR. I think by the RAW you could teleport unwilling people too. The RAW is horrible.
Delete....why does my chrome keep telling me teleport isnt a word?
Your Chrome is a snob.
DeleteI'm standing behind that rule 100%, wherever it came from. Being able to teleport-kidnap unwilling or unconscious people makes Psychopomp the best murder-without-trial purview in the game.
It came from me of course :)
DeleteI think a good solution would be to allow the re-rolls. Hey, why not, it's their power right? However! Every reroll comes with a consequence.
ReplyDeleteYou re-roll once? Your result is now constantly at a -1. You can never get a 10 on that roll, even if you naturally hit it.
Twice? Well, now you're at a -2. There goes the nine as well. On and on until if the player is incredibly insane (and their bandmates haven't killed them first) they'll only roll 1's.
And that'll probably mean the band's not leaving unless it's in a bodybag.
I think that's a good enough limitation on it beyond ST fiat. Some people... sure, they might hurt the band but hey, they can reroll and get a chance at the 5+ options, this'll curb that response. I think.
I dunno, I torture my players regardless.
Man, that is a fun idea. Let me take it one further, even: instead of fiddling with the rerolls, every time you consecutively use Out of the Frying Pan, you get the -1 to your roll. So you certainly can use it multiple times to 'port around the landscape trying to avoid bad news, but every time you do you're less likely to land somewhere you want to go.
DeleteThat'd probably take care of the problem of Aztecs with inexhaustible Legend abusing it as a system of transport!
This got me to an interesting place. Do you normally allow infinite rerolls on all rolls in the game(legend allowing)? Or were you just suggesting it for this one?
DeleteOh no, they get one legend reroll and that's about it. However, I could see someone wanting to use OotFp again after a certain amount of time. (I usually require 10 ticks to pass before you can retry a roll, and the diff goes up consecutively by 1 each time)
Delete@Anne; I actually was suggesting that but I worded it wrong. Lack of sleep makes the brain fuzzy. :D
Consider that idea stolen like a popular song on the internet!
DeleteAhhh....that makes more sense Aynie. I would enjoy something like everytime used in the same day incurs that penalty.
DeleteAynie, Isn't torturing players what Scion is all about? We're all masochists. oh, wait, is this just because I'm John's player? :)
DeleteNaw. My players are constantly telling me that I broke their characters. Like when the Russian PC discovered that Chernobog (his dad) has been keeping his mother prisoner in a cell under his castle ever since his minions murdered her to free the Russian from his familial obligations.
DeleteSaid player was rather surprised to discover that the God of Evil is a dick, actually.
O yes source.
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ReplyDeleteI'd counter that it does matter quite a bit - while surviving is always going to be priority one, if you blow 4/5 of your resources just on surviving, you have very little left to do anything else. Not succeeding at whatever quest you're on, not preventing other bad things from happening to you, not even being able to use life-saving powers the next time something happens if you haven't gotten your pool back yet. The Legend expenditure doesn't matter in terms of survival - of course, you have to survive to do anything else! - but it will matter quite a lot when it comes to not having the Legend to do other things you need to be doing later.
ReplyDeleteThat someone might die anyway is actually something I don't mind at all about OotFP. It's meant to be a last-ditch, unreliable escape mode. If a PC wants reliable death-avoidance, he probably wants to invest in things like Guardian or Stamina instead.
Some of this may be wonkiness that just comes from perceptions of what Chaos is and does, though - I'm sure it's not uniform across all players and STs.
It shouldnt need clarification. All I did was list out in long form, the meaning of the words used in the table as they relate to scion. Here is the key to this that you seem to be missing(or perhaps your aztec).
ReplyDeleteThe roll should be a risk. So much a risk that you normally dont want to do it. By the time you decide to use it, you probably are low on legend. More often then not, for both this and Deus ex(which is the same power but with an all the time price instead of a random generator) the scion has been completely spent at this point, and needs to stunt to be able to afford the first use of the power. By the time they use it a 2nd time they're probably either unable to, or that will completely drain them. A third time at that legend seems almost impossible to pull off unless the story just started, and then you're handicapped for the rest of it.
This also just made me think of something I meant to add to this post. Ill do that now.
Awesome stunters might be able to pull off several uses in a row (or the rest of the band could be pumping the Chaos-user full of Legend with Legendary Surge - it could happen!).
DeleteI think that is a good point, however: this is a last-ditch power for a reason. Unless the Scion who owns it has literally no other life-saving abilities of any kind to deal with a situation, they're probably not using it, which means that they're unlikely to be at maximum Legend or Willpower when they do in the first place - they've probably been using things like Skin-Shedding or Earth Armor or Phase Cloak or whatever else they have to try to stay in one piece and are forced to resort to OotFP afterward. Again, awesome stunters may be able to do that without too huge a dent being made in their Legend pools, but I wouldn't count on players being able to do that all the time.
Of course, I suppose some players could just be using OotFP randomly without being in an emergency because they're crazy. I like Aynie's solution above for dealing with that, though.
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ReplyDeleteYeah, limiting it to once per scene definitely removes pretty much all question of it being used as a constant merry-go-round, so that may be the simplest solution of all.
DeleteI definitely don't disagree - there are a few boons that STs have to be kind of on their toes for if their PCs have them, and OotFP is definitely one of them. I think that's largely what John's saying in the post, actually - and while I'm sure he doesn't have any problem always having a plan for whatever crazy shenanigans ensue, it's definitely valid for an ST to not want the hassle and to simply disallow it.
Allowing it once per scene removes a great deal of the chaos behind the boon though.
DeleteEvery problem with the boon you're suggesting is the same problem that exists with rainbow bridge, except rainbow bridge you know where you're going.
Also you must not play with our version of enech. 0r raise your glass. Legendary surge helps, but other then aztecs Ive never seen ANYONE share more then a couple legend ever.
Im fairly generous with 2 and 3 dice stunts(id say on average I hand out a combined total of 30 or so per session)(3 dice stunts dont give xp), and I still almost always have people scraping for legend always.
And most games have 2-3(one game has 5) characters with BFF. And they still seem to always be dry on willpower.
I use Enech to drain willpower or legend. Not give it out. (Though I did manage to give 38 legend to Wuyi thanks to an awesome-awesome roll with Bard's Tongue)
DeleteIt could be used to refresh folk, but that means one misc. action is not spent on surviving. I dunno, I think everyone has good points to bring up and it all comes down to how you run/feel your games are.
Personally? Iry's game/storyline is ALREADY a version of OotFP and as such we really, really don't need the boon given to our Chaos God. We're screwed enough as it is!
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ReplyDeleteIs she not also burning through it as soon as it comes back? Man, my players hemorraghe Legend like it's going out of style. Not that hemorraghes ever go out of style.
DeleteIf it isn't the Sound God sending messages to everyone in the entire world (cellphones and texting are for mortals, obviously), then it's the Darkness God disappearing every two seconds and ShadowStepping instead of walking. Our Greek is pretty stable, but that's because he invested heavily in Arete and that's free. He can still burn through a good bit of Legend using his Guardian and Emotion (Hope) Boons, though.
Stunts may provide a good stream of Legend, but that Legend isn't just being stockpiled. It's going back out constantly to power minor but every-day uses of supernatural badassity.
Oh, I'm burning it, but as I'm a social Scion most of my powers are willpower-based. I hover around half legend constantly thanks to 4 legend back on every stunt. Hell, even if I blow it all on a self-healing roll, I'm back to half-full soon enough.
DeleteMy Moon/Water boons last for scenes / long spanses of time so even if I'm investing a ton of legend into Tidal influence by the time I need to worry about renewing it, I've already gained like 16 legend from four stunts.
And since I'm Tuatha with a Legendary geas, every stunt is feeding me 4 legend (I rarely get 1-die stunts) and I'm running at a surplus of legend instead of burnout.
DeleteSee, now, being a Tuatha is cheating. As is bein an Aztec. So that renders your character ineligable as a reference point.
DeleteJust kidding, but those two Pantheons really do have a serious buttload of Legend flying all over the place. The Aztec PSP is all about regaining Legend, after all. The Irish aren't far off; they get Legend like spoiled kids get candy.
By the end of our latest story, half of my players were so drained of Legend they were at half health because they couldn't afford to Regenerate their Aggravated wounds. And that was including an Irish Scion with his Legendary Geas (seriously, he uses his Sound Boons every two seconds).
Yeah, their psps arent a concern, and so because they're only 1/6th the populace cant really be used when comparing boon costs. Although we have one aztec that doesnt max itzl and does have some legend issues.
DeleteBecause you said they'd use raise your glass(oddly no one in any of my games uses this, probably cuase they feel its cheating and dont like cheating? Im really not sure).
DeleteAnd you need to reread my body and spirit. The legend disappears at the end of the scene and cannot be given to other people with legendary surge.
The sheer amounts of alcohol required to get a Stamina God drunk make it rather impractical to use for most characters in my games and the rest just don't seem interested.
DeleteOr did I ban it because I thought it was lame and cheap? I can't remember. One of my players will surely tell me.
I used to use raise your glass with Sophia all the time, but I ran out of creative ways to stunt it, so I haven't thought about it in a while. That, and I can just stunt something else i'm doing to get a legend without having to take a separate action. With Kettila, i'm not sure she had it before she went through Aztec school, and now she wouldn't because they told her it's very bad to drink. I might would try harder to use it for Sophia if it regenerated more than one.
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ReplyDeleteA small note that might come to bear here: I've noticed that there's a pretty appreciable difference in stunting between face-to-face games and online/typed games (I've run and been in both). Online games tend to have an easier time with stunting, I've found, because players are already writing out what they're doing and have a few extra seconds to come up with something; unless they're truly hapless writers, it's pretty easy to stunt everything. In face-to-face games, which are most of the ones we run these days, players who don't think on their feet too well or who have difficulty verbally describing what's in their heads often don't do as well with that, especially since they don't want to slow down the game by sitting around and thinking for a minute.
DeleteIt varies by player, of course, and by game style. I know I, personally, am way better at stunting in the written word, so I'd probably be getting a lot more stunt dice in a PBP or chat game than I get in a tabletop. My real-life Wits score is sadly not my highest.
Oh. I might be kinda a dick then. I take into account that my players are mostly going to describe everything. They have to do something actually out of the ordinary for themselves to get Legend back.
DeleteWe do play in a text-based format (GoogleDocs) so that has some effect. No one ever just says "I ShadowStep into the room" or "I punch him". There's usually at least a few good adjetives and similies being thrown around.
I intentionally compensate for this by raising the Stunt Threshold so that my players have to manage their resources. If Legend is infinite, that's a balance issue. They haven't really complained. (Now I'm sure they'll START. Thanks Iry...)
Yes. Im with source J, and I think it blends into annes comment. They describe everything...thats how you say what you're doing. Its only excellent description that gets stunt dice.
DeleteAnd exactly what source J said, in most instances it NEEDS to be a resource that you use and balance. Otherwise legend means nothing and everything should just be free.
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ReplyDeleteStunting isn't just verbage, though. It's also Awesomeness. It can be exhausting to be Awesome for everything. So while everyone does something like "I leap through the Shadows and punch him so hard he flies off his feet and lands in a crumples heap", that isn't really enough an investment of Awesome for them to regain more than (maaaybe) 1 Legend for it.
DeleteThat's just something they do. And, yeah, I do try to be a little more generous with the players who are a bit less gifted when it comes to word-weaving. Within reason, as much as possible. If I'm on the edge between giving a one dot or a two dot stunt, I might err towards two dots for some of the players since they tend to stunt a little less often and less well.
Nono, we have 2 5 player games and a 6 player one. 10 would be insane!
DeleteI mean, we have had 10-player games, but they seldom last more than a few sessions before breaking up into smaller bands. Too many people trying to be awesome at once. Mercy.
DeleteAnd yes to everything source said. The people who arent as good at stunting get it a little easier, and the people that are great have to give a little more.
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ReplyDelete"The most basic stunt adds a bit of color to the game, filling out the scene for everyone at the table in a fun way. "
DeleteThis is exactly what we have described above. The difference is your definition of what "a bit of color" is.
Source hit perfectly home with what he imagined "a bit of color" to mean.
Interact with the setting in a meaningful way? What does that mean?
None of the stunts are actually "clearly explained." They use terms that are near undefinable in a game system.
We actually use a 1-5 dice stunt system. That is similar but different from the raw. It allows me to not have to stop the action during social scenes and give out stunts in more clumpy form later. And allows me to differently reward larger social stunts.
...I want a 5-dice stunt for social scenes. *eyesballs Iry*
DeleteI don't know that Scion can be said to have a "norm" since everyone I've ever talked to about it has their own (massive) set of House Rules for it.
DeleteHowever, I basically agree with you that you need to tailor things to the Legend economy of your game. Legend should be a resource to be managed carefully. If your group is throwing around high-cost powers willy-nilly because they never run dry of juice and that's a problem, either reduce the amount of Legend they regain or increase the cost of their powers.
If that isn't a problem, well, that's your thing. Sometimes I have "narrative" areas of the game where I basically suspend Legend costs and dice rolls. The PCs get to do their thing just to be as awesome as they can, cause it's good for drama or just feels appropriate. Often I'll let them slide on minor uses of their powers, not requiring any Legend expenditure for tiny things like our Darkness-loving Russian adding some ominous to his threats with clever shadow play.
So, yeah, sometimes its cool just to go wild with your powers and ignore the Legend economy. But there's a time for that, and a time when blowing 70% of your Legend Pool in one go is a serious investment and needs to be considered. If that can just be waved off, it reduces the drama of the game.
In my game, Regeneration takes 3 Legend to heal a level of Aggravated damage because it was otherwise so easy to fix Aggravated wounds that the players didn't take them seriously. Being hurt didn't cause them to reconsider a course of action since they all had enough Epic Stamina to ignore wound penalties and enough Self-Healing (or friends with Heal) to recover from anything but death in a few minutes of downtime.
Now they're kinda scared of walking into a room booby trapped by the minions of the Death Titan, because they know they might step on a landmine full of Distelled Essence of Mortality and get themselves whapped with a few dice of Aggravated damage that will take a big chunck of their Legend Pools to heal.
If that Legend just returned easily, it'd be no big thing to sweep the mines with the Russian Scion. Hell, just toss him at anything. So long as he actually doesn't die, what's the problem?
Scarcity makes for drama. If Legend flows like rain, that's bad. Also, if Legend is so scarce that players never want to use their Boons at all, that's bad cause it reduces the overall Epicness of the game. A careful balance is required.
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DeleteWait, John is Lambach who is also Lir and .. that makes Anne Malkbunny? Really? My brain is BLOWN. BLOWN.
DeleteMy players have to be out of the ordinary to earn a stunt. They are ordinarily pretty awesome. To get a stunt, they have to invest some effort into what they're doing and go above-and-beyond. How far above and beyond determines what level stunt they get.
Are they representative of your "average" Scion player? I don't know. I haven't played with enough groups to know what an "average" Scion player does. They're fairly on par with most of the Exalted players I knew and know. So I'd guess, yeah. Most Exalted/Scion players are the kind of folks who ENJOY stunt-type descriptions and use them regularly.
I'm not stingy with stunts, but I also don't hand them out just because someone did more than point and grunt or tell me what power they're activating.
Whenever anyone activates Body Armor, they describe the specific form their Body Armor takes. Is that a stunt? I don't consider it one. That's just how they roll. If they want to stunt activating Body Armor, they give it some extra oomph!
Dude,
DeleteIm pretty sure our two god games have 3/5th of both games with about half their health currently agg. Regen is 1L and they still refuse to use it unless they are literally on deaths door.
And no, it doesnt matter if my players are average. More that you need to relate your definition of average with what your players are. My players are probably far above average. And among them they have huge varying degrees of their stuntable stuff. I generally try to give dice on the average of what that player is capable of(with a slight lean towards how badly they need legend). And generally just hope to help increase the stunting hutzpa of all the players over time. I think after 3 years, compared to the "average" they're probably pretty high.
DeleteAnd it just occured to me, that since we play at a table, im also able to give stunts for good facial expressions or gestures.
@Source J
DeleteThen you're breaking from how RAW Scion requires stunting. Anything that is beyond the point and grunt and with a small bit of flair is supposed to be at least a 1-dot stunt.
Which, y'know, cool. Fine. Your game and all. But because you withold stunts for something awesome (and awesome is very much personal opinion) doesn't mean that Iry, or I, or anyone else giving out stunts in a four-hour session is doing it/handling the economy wrong.
Actually, I'd be pretty annoyed if I'm throwing out a really detailed description to activate a power and I don't get a stunt for it. The actions fuel the legend, even minor points of legend after all.
That's just weird. Why is that, I wonder?
DeleteAlso, I've considered adding a power that specifically allows you to inflict Terrible Horrible Disfiguring Scars on people so that they have to resort to actual uses of Health to have them healed and can't just Regenerate them away.
Not sure about that and it's probably a topic best left for another post.
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DeleteTo clarify, my previous comment was directed at John and his players' reluctance to use Regeneration despite it's low cost.
DeleteIn regards to Aynie, I've actually played a few sessions with you and I know you're quite descriptive. If we were playing together again, you'd probably get stunts quite often if I was the Storyteller. But not for everything more than point-and-grunt.
As I said before, everyone has to adjust the Legend economy to their own goals. If Legend flows so freely that no one is ever afraid of using high-cost abilities, then those high-cost abilities need to be balanced with some other resource. Willpower, or Virtue Channels or Legendary Deeds. There needs to be an economy. In a state of abundance, nothing has value.
I'm not saying you're doing it wrong if you hand out stunts for anything above point-n-grunt, just that in my experience, doing that would result in a stunt for literally everything my players ever do. They would have full Legend pools constantly. That would be an issue for me and probably for most Storytellers.
The way I deal with that is to raise the Stunt Threshold. I am aware that according to the "rules" (they're very vague, as John said) I am making it harder to get stunts. I believe I am following the spirit of the rules. Stunts exist to reward players for going above and beyond. For being cool and badass and interesting. That requires some effort beyond the norm. Just for my players, the norm is already pretty cool.
It might be because they're just used to the health person being forced to take care of it. But then the health person stops wanting to spend legend on it so no one does? Im not sure. I guess for legend economy its much "smarter" for the health person to use health.
DeleteI'll just say that I have to interact with the surrounding in a meaningful manner and at least throw out two paragraphs plus to even look at a two-die stunt.
ReplyDeleteThey aren't given out like candy. I know our Shen Scion is constantly hovering at 10ish legend because he is burning through it like crazy. But neither do we have to pour blood onto the keyboard to get a stunt, either.
This the game you play or the game you run? Its a bit confusing with your pronoun use.
DeleteGame I play in, sorry about that.
DeleteThough, to be on-topic as a ST myself... in MIST, I'm not generous with Stunts, but I do reward descriptions and interaction. I don't need/want flower prose but then again, I want more than "ugh, point here! Smash!"
yeah. I think there is an excellent medium between the two extremes.
DeleteI would like to issue an apology. This debate has ceased to be a discussion about the technical merits of the legend economy and instead turned into a personal crusade to make John admit that he could be wrong. I have removed the offending posts from this blog and the prior one.
ReplyDeleteIn the words of Salout_Risin, "At the end of the day, what works in YOUR story with YOUR players is what matters most. Not what someone on some forum says."
I will very rarely admit Im wrong. This isnt because Im necessarily stubborn(I am, but its not the reason for this), but its because I have thought long and hard about my choices and decisions. And then I've playtested them for hours on hours on hours. Sometimes I do change things and realize a decision I made is wrong. But more often then not thats going to come from playtesting, not someones opinion or thoughts on it, not because I dismiss other peoples thoughts automatically, but that in most things scion, I have already thought all the thoughts that could be thought on a subject. Im at the point where I have to see something not work in action. Also, contrary to what you said in the post you erased, I gleefully stick by posts as Lambach and Lir(and the other 10 or so screennames I used for a while and got banned for being me). Im a very proud man, and proud men dont back down from what they've said. Im sure I've made some posts I now disagree with, but thats because I've had more time for thought and experiences. That doesnt mean I would hide from what I had said before.
DeleteYour choices and your decisions work best for your group, but too often you present your ideas in a way that suggests it would also be best for every group. This naturally ruffles my feathers in a way that Anne never does, which is why these arguments always seem to happen between us.
DeleteThe things you and Anne do here are excellent for the Scion community as a whole, and I genuinely support them as such and would not wish them to be diminished. Unfortunately this also means you get a free pass to avoid justice for your past actions because doing so may negatively affect the contributions you and Anne make on the forums.
If I only present it "too often" and not "always", then Im not being forward enough with my opinion. Im an artist, when you work this hard on something you have complete faith in it.
DeleteAnd I avoid justice because there is no justice on the internet. Punishment can exist, and I've been punished many many times, but there inst truly justice. Only on the internet do people think calling people names deserves justice.
And if my presence here actually effected my constant punishment on the forums in any way I'd be very very surprised. And if it did, then thats awesome.
DeleteAnd that is why we will continue to have argument after argument in the future. When someone insists that their way is the only way it has the unfortunate consequence of making other people believe them without question, not by the merit of their research as they might hope but simply because they are charismatic and forceful.
DeleteBut your research actually does have merit, which is why the combination is particularly dangerous in you. I do sincerely love the hobby and unfortunately cannot seem to resist rising to the bait of intolerant rhetoric. At least until I get bored. This is the internet ya know ;)
Oh, internet.
DeleteI have gotten far and changed many minds with my charisma, force of personality and intelligence. I tend to be even more convincing in person. Internets.
DeleteOn a totally new thread, are the rules you mentioned about the Colossus doing damage to people with Darkness/Chaos/Illusion Boons and the damage that Underworlds do to people with the wrong Virtues your own house rules? I don't recall that at all.
ReplyDeleteAlso, if you're in the Underworld, wouldn't ghosts be visible even without Death Senses?
Totally all house rules, there arent really rules printed for a lot of that stuff. In general my world of scion is a much much, rougher and dangerous place then in the books(looking at you poisons and fire dmg). If you leave the world, to a terra, axis, underworld, shit gets real dangerous real quick. If those kind of things ever get voted on I'll put type up all my files on those places.
DeleteIt's totally in line with a larger pattern I've noticed in your version of Scion: especially as characters start visiting more and more supernatural locales, purviews and boons start acting less like "optional powers I can activate when I feel like it" and more like "this is a permanent trait of who I am".
DeleteWhich, I think, is very good.