Question: We have a whole heck of a lot of Indo-European sky gods fighting chaotic sea monsters, don't we? Is that supposed to be some kind of metaphor for Chaos vs. Order or Civilization vs. Savagery?
Yep, that's exactly what it is. The idea of the sky god fighting the sea dragon is so pervasive in Indo-European mythology that it's one of the most commonly-studied examples of a "monomyth" in comparative mythology: that is, a myth that contains an idea that is common to all kinds of people across different cultures and areas, and that may arise spontaneously even if that culture has never contacted any other with the same myth before.
The cosmic battle is widespread and includes many of the most famous enemies in Scion's cosmology: Thor vs. Jormungandr in the Germanic religions, Baal vs. Yam in Canaan, Zeus vs. Typhon in Greece, Marduk vs. Tiamat in Mesopotamia, Indra vs. Vritra in India, Fereydun vs. Azhi Dahaka in Persia and Teshub vs. Illuyanka among the Hitties are all prime examples that involve a god of storms or sky battling and eventually overcoming a serpent or dragon that is related in some way to water. Even the Bible may get in on the action, with some passages in the Old Testament possibly pointing toward a battle between Yahweh and the Leviathan at some point, and much later Christianity unintentionally picks up the same imagery for the battle between the archangel Michael and Satan in the form of a dragon. Some other cultures have changed the details but retained the basic idea of the neverending battle, such as Egypt retaining the storm god (Set) but realigning his serpentine enemy away from water and toward shadow (Apep).
In many ancient mythologies, water - especially the ocean - is often symbolic of chaos, thanks to its position as the fundamental cosmic source of all life. The ocean is deep, unknowable and full of strange creatures and dark murkiness, all obvious signs to ancient cultures that it was a sort of giant melting pot of chaos, and the fact that it was often considered to be the original source of all kinds of different living things, no matter how dangerous or bizarre they might be, combined with this idea to suggest the idea of the untameable ocean as a sort of vast womb of chaotic creation. Humanity, which can barely interact with the ocean via sailing or fishing, let alone overcome its incomprehensible powers, can't fight the ocean; the age-old idea of the sea serpent is a direct embodiment and terrifying symbol of that unconquerable enemy. A higher power is therefore needed to overcome the serpent, and that is usually represented by the sky, the only thing in nature that can overpower the ocean by lashing it to storm heights or withholding its winds to make it calm. So it is the gods of the sky, especially in its most warlike and powerful form as the source of storms, that fight and overcome the serpents.
Of course, while the idea is widespread, it's not universal; you don't see it nearly as much in landlocked societies (the Mongolians or plains Native Americans, for example, have no need for a sea serpent concept), and even parts of the world that do have ocean-facing territories don't have the idea (the Yoruba, for example) or express it in different ways (the Australian idea of the Bunyip, which is a chaotic sea-monster but a lesser race of beings rather than a god-level cosmic antagonist). And it is totally possible for the metaphor to be taken too far, and scholars have definitely come up with extremely sketchy theories for mythologies based solely on the idea that the culture should have this concept so therefore they invent one with little to no evidence beneath it.
But it's absolutely a legit, fundamental, old-as-the-dirt-under-Tiamat's-nails religious concept, that chaotic dragon being fought by the heroic storm god so that order can be restored. It's a perfect place to come up with new modern-day expressions of the idea beginning to challenge Scions, too!
Every time I gaze out across the ocean and see a storm above it tossing lightning about, I think of an eternal battle between two opposing forces. Also science, but that comes second.
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Deletedo you agree with the theory that the ancient Sumerian myth of Tiamat was the basis for the other myths that followed, Zeus Vs Typhon, Bal Vs Yam, and others in the medetariania area?
ReplyDeleteIt's impossible to say, really - certainly Sumerian mythology influenced other nearby myths, especially those of Canaan, Persia and Greece, so it's entirely possible that some of the basic themes were retained and shared across that part of the world. Then again, the monomyth believers would say that some basic concepts arise among different ethnic groups totally independently, and that it's totally possible for different cultures to all come up with the same idea without borrowig it from anyone, since they all have the same root human psychology beneath them.
DeleteI think the Mesopotamian religions definitely influenced a ton of their later successors, probably even in ways we don't know because it was too long ago for us to study thoroughly, but it's hard to have a firm position on specifics. :)
Another example - Perun v. Veles.
ReplyDeleteInsofar as it goes, I'm not sure you can lump Chaldean (Marduk v. Tiamat) and Canaanite (Ba'al v. Yam) in as Indo-European examples, since, ya know, they aren't Indo-European...
Actually, I didn't mention Perun and Veles on purpose, and here's why. ;) I've done as much research as I can do without losing my mind, and I've still yet to see anything convincing suggesting that Veles has anything to do with the primordial serpent/dragon role.
DeleteHa, yes, that's true. :) Tiamat isn't a "dragon" per se anyway, although she probably has dragonish parts, but she's generally in there as an example of the chaotic water-monster who opposes the storm god anyway. The Canaanites also aren't European, but they definitely had a good amount of cultural borrowing that probably filtered ideas into or out of them, especially with the Greeks and Egyptians.
DeleteMan, we need better labels for various groups of ancient cultures.
dragon!
DeleteChaldean and Canaanite are Semitic. As is Hebrew if you want to throw in Yahweh v. Leviathan.
DeleteYep, sure are. If the Indo-European label I threw around up in the post is what's bothering you, please ignore it - obviously it's more widespread around the world than just there, although almost all Indo-European mythologies are influenced by the Mesopotamians at least.
DeleteI believe comparative mythologists call this the "chaoskampf.". Would later Christian myths such as St. George and the dragon also fall in this category?
ReplyDeleteIndeed they do. :)
DeleteSt. George vs. the dragon is a medieval religious continuation of the battle of the Archangel Michael against the Devil (often referred to or pictured as a dragon, especially in medieval times). But the combat between Michael and Lucifer is itself a Christian expression of the chaoskampf, so there's certainly not much of a stretch there!
The Old Testament contains several lines that suggest a primordial battle between Yahweh and a sea dragon, usually assumed to be Leviathan, as well. Some scholars prefer the theory that this is poetic metaphor to illustrate Yahweh's power rather than a literal story, but others point out that the idea would fit right in with the rest of the world's mythology, and especially that a lot of the language is very similar to the stories of Baal's combat with Yam. It's entirely possible that Judaism had its own version of the same myth in ancient times, although by the time of the New Testament Yahweh is only vaguely personified and the story is lost.
Oh, and I forgot to mention it in the post, but there's also a myth about Set fighting the sea (usually because it's trying to mack on his wife) that might be relevant here, too. :)
Including Egyptian adds Japhetic to the Indo-European and Semitic storm god v. dragon-like thing.
DeleteYahweh's dragon fighting prowess is mentioned in the Psalms. Yahweh lauds himself when he's dressing down Job for being a little upset about having his entire existence obliterated on a bet.