Question: I'm working on a game using your Bogovi supplement's Stvaranje as a major antagonist, and I was wondering if there were any Norse and/or Irish beings that could fit in there as Avatars; the players are all from those pantheons and I want a more personal touch for their conflicts.
Hmm, interesting question! Who among the northern European pantheons could be Titans of Creation?
For the Norse, you have several options, most of them hearkening back to the days of gianty yore. You might want to use Buri, the ancient giant, first son of Ymir and/or the primordial cow Audumbla, who sprang into being as a whole adult and then went on to create Bor, the first of the Aesir and father of Odin and his brothers. You could view him as a representative of parthenogenesis, being self-created himself and having in turn created a son with no other being's help. You could also maybe look to Vili and Ve, Odin's brothers, who aided him in creating the world from Ymir's body and subsequently vanished; other than a mention (by Loki, so who knows whether or not it's true) that Frigg has had relationships with them as well as her husband, they vanish from Norse myth after the creation of the world and could be anywhere. They might be Avatars (or one composite Avatar, maybe even one that Odin broke away from?) concerned with creation as a by-product of death or destruction. The other major creator figure in the Norse world is Volund (or, to use his more familiar English name, Wayland), the legendary blacksmith, but he's probably lower in Legend and more likely to be a minor god than a Titan.
The Tuatha are a little more difficult. They do have a triad of dedicated crafter gods, the Tri Dee Dana (Three Skilled Gods), including Goibnhiu the blacksmith (Gobnhios, over among the Nemetondevos), Creidnhe the metalworker and Luchta the carpenter, but they're staunch members of the pantheon and probably not good candidates for Titanhood. The only really ancient creator figure I can think of aside from Danu, who is currently living it up in Ourea, is Domnu, her opposite number and the mother of the race of Fomorians. Domnu is linked to the ocean (her name is etymologically close to "the deep" or "the abyss") and might be a Water-related Titan, but as the creator of an entire race she could also be considered a Creation Titan in a capacity as a producer and mother.
Darn, Ireland is really hard for this one. Anyone else have any suggestions?
What about Audumbla itself? I admit i know very little about it but a primordial cow and ancestor to most figures in Norse myth seems a strong contender for a creation titan.
ReplyDeleteAs for the Irish, I haven't the foggiest who but I htink it would be cool for them to provide a more crafting orientated creator titan, the realm has its fair share of demiurges and ancient ancestor figures but surprisingly few artisans (though i guess with the likes of Khnum the distinction can become a bit blurred).
Well, it's a creation realm, not just a forging realm, so all kinds of different creators (including Khnum and his clay molding of mankind!) should be represented. :)
DeleteHmm, you could definitely play around with Audumbla some, although like a lot of other animals in Norse mythology she really isn't personified or active much. She's around about the same amount as Buri, anyway, and also self-created.
I may be out on a speculatory limb here, since this is based on linguistics (in this case a particular phrase in a Nordic language), rather than mythology (though may be based on mythology, idk)...
ReplyDeleteThe phrase "King Buri" does spring to mind, as a euphemism / personification of Winter in Swedish (which happens to be my native language). Like I said, it might be speculation, but it does seem to suggest Buri being more a Frost Titan than a Creation Titan. So, personally, I would go with Audumbla. Anne does make a good case for him being a possible Creation Titan, though, so I guess that would be a possibility. For my own games, though, I wouldn't use him as anything other than a Frost Titan, seeing as all of my players are Swedish-speakers and would probably question my logic... ;P
That's really interesting! I can definitely see why you would want to keep him Frost-aligned, in that case. And after all, he is hanging out at the top of the genealogical tree with Ymir, so it only makes sense. :)
DeleteQuestion asker here, and as usual you guys are a lot of help. I was definitely leaning towards Buri as a Norse Titan, but I wanted to ask around to see what others thought (one person I asked suggested Ivaldi, and with a straight face no less), but Johannes' suggestion of him as a Frost Titan has some merit too.
ReplyDeleteAs for the Irish, yeah, barring someone coming up with a better idea Domnu seems like my best bet, so thanks for that.
Glad to be helpful!
DeleteI don't know if i would place Vølund as high as minor godhood.
ReplyDeleteHe is mentioned in a single myth, true the myth is of decent length and is about him, but still. Reading it, i feel like he is more of a Demigod, and might not be alive to this day.
I am a fan of him though, and in my games he would defintely be to find on the island of Sævarstad -a Terra Incognita, i would say-, where he is a Demigod specced to the teeth in Artistry and sorrounded by all sorts of treasures that he have forged in the long years past.
I think he would be asking visitors to find his lost love, that has still not returned to him, and in return granting Artefacts, or the use of his forge.
I could see Volund as a high-level Demigod, too - he definitely strikes me as a Scion himself.
DeleteI agree, he definitely does have some godblood in him, though no myth states from where.
DeleteWe know his father was a mortal king and that he and his brothers married valkyries, so my guess would be Freya. :)
DeleteIt is a good guess. As good as any really.
DeleteWhat is interesting is that the only ''benefit'' we see to him being a prince is the extreme amount of gold he used to smith wedding rings for his bride.
He lives in a small cabin in the woods with his two brothers, and they stay there for some time in the story, before, under and after the visit of their brides.
No guards check on them, no fatherly visit...
Mabye they are all bastards? so there is two more scions out there like Vølund? Which is why they are not living with their father. He ''Hid them away'' as they were ''just'' bastards?
I think Gefjon from Norse could be a Titan. As for the Irish, how about Ce, the druid of Nuada? Apparently (according to Wikipedia), he's great at spewing up natural landscapes after his death.
ReplyDelete