Question: Was Odysseus a biological grandson of Zeus adopted as a Scion of Athena, a Scion of Zeus, or just a really clever mortal who lived a particularly legendary life surrounded by gods, demigods, and monsters?
Odysseus, in addition to being the Greek hero most disagreed about by scholars in terms of his purpose and philosophical representation, is also one of the messiest to try to pin down geneaologically. In all technicality, by Scion's rules, he couldn't have been a Scion as he's too far removed from his divine forbears, but he certainly has more divine heritage than most mortals could claim.
He's not Zeus' grandson, but depending on the mythic version could be considered either his great-grandson or great-great-grandson. According to Homer, he is the son of Laertes, who was himself the son of Arcesius, himself a son of Zeus, making him three generations removed; at the same time, his mother is Anticlea, who was the daughter of Autolycus, who was the son of Hermes (who is of course the son of Zeus), making him simultaneously Zeus' great-grandson, great-great-grandson and Hermes' great-grandson. And if that wasn't confusing enough, there's a variant myth in which his father is actually Sisyphus, which would again make him a great-grandson of Zeus through Sisyphus' father Aeolus, one of Zeus' many sons.
This is all a bit head-spinning, but what it basically boils down to is that, by Scion's rules, Odysseus could not be a Scion. He would need to be at least the grandson of a god, and he's one step too far away in all cases. This is also supported by the fact that, despite his excellent adventures and exploits, he eventually died of old age in Ithaca, a distinctly mortal kind of deceasement.
But Odysseus also does many great deeds, succeeds on many great quests and sometimes even out-performs dudes who definitely are Legendary; it's hard to believe that a mere mortal could have done all that, or that the gods should have bothered to take that much of an interest in him (or, come to that, that he could have survived Poseidon's snittiness for so long). So what to do with the most famous mind in ancient Greece?
The easiest option is probably just to declare that he was a Scion and insert some plot to explain whose and why his genealogy isn't preserved. Perhaps he was a closer relation of Zeus' or Hermes', hidden from the other gods as a secret weapon, or the son or grandson of some minor god taken under Athena's wing. There are pretty much unlimited ways to do this; the one that's closest to existing mythology would be to consider him the son of Sisyphus, and further to consider that his grandfather Aeolus was in fact identical to the weather-god Aeolus rather than a separate mortal king, allowing Odysseus to be the Scion of a minor god of the Dodekatheon who also happens to be related to Zeus and Hermes. If your plot requires Odysseus to be a Scion, though, you can pretty much assign him any secret parent you want, from a Zeus avoiding Hera's attention to a shocking child of virginal Athena herself. Of course, he will go off to die in peace at the end of his story, but consider that Odysseus, out of all Greek heroes, is the one guy who never wanted to be involved in epic things and just wanted to stay at home with his family. He might be the only example I know of in mythology of a Scion who chooses to allow himself to lose his Legend through inactivity, a possibility the books include but which I've never heard of anyone using in a game.
Of course, that's deciding to make up a new geneaology where normally we take the ancient Greeks and their myths at face value, and that's not our favorite idea. Another simple solution that might appeal is to set Odysseus as a Legendary Mortal; it would give him a little bit of a Legendary boost, certainly enough to remind us who he is and keep his legends and exploits strong, but would accept that his geneaology indicates he wouldn't be a full-blown Scion without fudging. Of course, how he came to be a Legendary mortal is really up to the Storyteller and the needs of the story; the Scion books are somewhat vague on this point. One of the most important themes of the stories of Odysseus is that he is a mortal; he's the example of mortal perfection and mortal excellence that the ancient Greeks so loved, and the fact that he can succeed alongside demigods is important partly because he isn't one of them. Setting him as a Legendary Mortal allows for brief flashes of his legendary awesomeness, but still retains that idea of him as a representative of the greatness of humanity.
Finally, you could look at the possibility that he was entirely mortal, but Fatebound to the major Legendary players in the Trojan war - probably at least Achilles, initially, but maybe even Athena and Poseidon themselves later. It's not very likely that he could hold his own as a mortal in such company, but if he had just the right Fatebound roles - a Boon Companion for Athena, perhaps, or a Rival against Poseidon - Fate itself might have helped him go far above and beyond what he normally could have done as a result. I'm actually not a big fan of this option only because it would suggest that Odysseus is famous because of being a character in the stories of others, and while he certainly isn't spotlighted for most of the Iliad, the following Odyssey is all him, and suggests to me that he was making a legend of his own, not merely acting as an adjunct to someone else's.
But, as you can see, there are plenty of options available. I think I might personally be fondest of the idea of Odysseus as a Legendary Mortal, myself, because I think it strikes a neat balance between staying true to mythology but allowing him to be awesome in his own right, but I think any of them might work in the right story.
There's also the possibility that Health or Magic gods could keep a bloodline viable for visitation for more generations than the baseline indicated by the book. Purity of bloodline was a pretty big deal for many cultures and it would make sense for a custom boon.
ReplyDeleteYou definitely could (the Avatar of Health could certainly do that even without any other boons), but I'm not sure why any gods would bother. When Zeus can always go make new sons who are much closer to the purity of his bloodline for free, I'm not sure why he'd bother to use super magic on Odysseus' line to keep him available as an unborn option (especially when making new Scions is one of the Greek gods' favorite pastimes anyway). It seems like an expenditure of energy that is kind of wasted when new, even-closer-to-pure-blooded kids can just be created for free.
DeleteA Health boon having to do with bloodline preservation is an interesting idea, though. (Human Clay already does a lot of that in our version of it, but I wonder if the idea could be diversified more.)
DeleteI love Legendary Mortals.
ReplyDeleteIn my games I don't think it'd ever come up that someone -goes down- in Legend, but it definitely comes up that someone -stays- at a certain Legend. It's hard to go up in Legend - you have to work hard for that, and continue to be the baddest Scion you can be!
But if you reach a certain Legend rating - 4 or under, Hero level, is still good enough to pass as mortal - and just decide you want to be the 'Watcher in the Woods' and go live by yourself with your perfectly mortal spouse and have whispers told about you by the local populace, and then eventually die a completely mundane mortal death...that can happen. It's up to you.
But yes, back to Legendary Mortals - I love them! They are the coolest part of Scion, because I honestly agree that there needs to be more bad-ass mortals in their universe. Yeah I get that Scions are supposed to be the main characters, and that they're supposed to be special and blah blah, but I find it really boring that mortals after a while just get relegated to 'completely unimportant' when throughout mythology there are plenty of stories of mere mortals who overcome the worst. Odysseus is just an example of one of those times where it's REALLY important he's a mortal.
As for HOW he became a Legendary Mortal...every Scion in Greece and Turkey and the surrounding regions was fighting a battle royale on whatever side they decided for that war. Every GOD was fighting each other on whatever side they decided. I'm pretty sure any [named] mortal fighting in that war instantly became Legendary. Look at Diomedes!
I don't think someone going down in Legend is ever going to come up in most peoples' games, because it's exactly the opposite of the point of Scion. :) The only way I can see it happening is if a player wanted their character to bow out of the game and chose that particular method because it suited the character's personality. Still seems unlikely, though.
DeleteI disagee with you pretty strongly that mortals are unimportant in mythology or that all important mortals in Scion have to be Legendary - that's what Fatebound Roles for mortals are all about, after all, making even normal mortals important to the story even if they can't compete in power. But I really do like the idea of Odysseus as a Legendary Mortal - it just makes the most sense to me. Plus it's awesome.
The original books' failure to give really good reasons for mortals to become Legendary Mortals is pretty frustrating; I mean, you can come up with all kinds of ways it might happen, but it's very random at the moment and makes it easy to accidentally bite on Scions' turf too much. I suppose we could come up with rules for it, but we never use them much in our games.
I flat out never use Legendary Mortals. If I want a mortal to do something really impressive then she is going to be a really impressive mortal, because every now and then mortals should be able to do some really impressive things.
DeleteThere's not really any useful reason to have a special category of mortals.
I agree as a generality but find them useful as an explanatory tool for history. Which is to say, I can't think of any good reason to have one in a game (because mortals can be awesome, especially when Fatebound, and Scions should be awesome as a factor of existing), but once in a while there are figures like Odysseus that categorize best into that idea (Beowulf's another one).
DeleteActually, I take that back - I'm cool with PCs using powers that turn mortals into Legend 1 creatures under their control (Spread Ren or Bestow the Mantle of Fate), but that's because it's something that is part of the PCs' powers and abilities. I don't really ever see much need for them to exist on their own, spontaneously, as the Scion books seem to suggest they do.
But yeah, I'm not sure what the in-game intent of Legendary Mortals even was in the original line. They certainly aren't really viable as PCs, they can't be useful challenges to anybody past Legend 2 or 3, and they don't seem to have much cosmic oomph behind them.
So when Odessyus journeyed to Hades to speak with the seer (forget his name), did he go to Tartarus or the fields of Asphodil? Becuase most of the versions I've seen describe the horror and challenge of him going to the underworld and back. And due to his awesomeness did he get to go to the elysian fields after death? I've heard that mentioned on this site before that he did get to go there. During the recreation of the trojan war in your game you said that he didn't want to leave his wife and the fields.
ReplyDeleteOdysseus' brief but nevertheless definitely present voyage to the river Acherus is another good reason he'd have to be at least a Legendary Mortal - by Scion's rules, normal mortals simply can't go to underworlds without dying, so if you consider him to have actually gone to Hades, this is a major issue. Although he was sent with help and guidance from Circe, and theoretically she could have helped him in some way - say, Avoid a Fate - that let him break the rules temporarily.
DeleteBut it's also rather strongly implied that Odysseus doesn't really go into Hades - he goes to the river and entrance to Hades where Circe directed him, but he makes sacrifices to summon the souls of the dead to come talk to him rather than actually going in and finding them, which suggests that running around Hades was something he either couldn't or didn't want to do. Actually going into Hades is something that is usually the express territory of gods and demigods, and Odysseus, usually demonstrably a representative of humanity, instead communicates with it in very human ways (i.e., sacrifice and prayer). It's still a harrowing experience and a difficult journey, but it's not comparable to the stuff that people like Orpheus or Heracles were up to.
Odysseus is indeed said to have gone to the Elysian Fields after death, and I see no reason he wouldn't be there in Scion (we certainly set him there, as you noticed!). Nothing ever says that it's reserved only for demigods, just that it's reserved for great heroes; most great heroes are demigods, but we felt Odysseus probably qualified. :) His inclusion there is probably a later one in Greek myth, but we liked it.