Question: Sorry to add to the questionado maelstrom, but I have a query about Artemis. In your family trees, she only has Moon as an associated purview. Is this right? It just seems a bit skimpy for the Goddess of the Hunt of the best-known Pantheon out there.
Yep, that's right.
This is kind of a perennial issue for the Theoi in general. The Greek religion, rather than having a smaller selection of deities who just do a ton of things (like the Aesir, for example), leaned heavily toward having an insane number of deities who all do only one or two things, making them far more specialized than gods in some other pantheons. Few of the Theoi rock more than a couple of associated purviews (though of course there are exceptions), because for the most part they're all very deliberately attached to only a couple of major ideas.
Artemis is like that. Moon is really the only purview she's associated with, although she clearly has that one in spades. She likely has some Health powers thanks to her associations with childbirth and pregnancy, and probably a little Animal from her wildlife associations and the times she turns people into beasts, but that's the extent of her other powers, and they're clearly not important enough to be Avatar-level. Artemis is indeed the goddess of the hunt, which is a large part of the reason she has Epic Perception associated. Perception is the hunting stat and set of powers; any time you are hunting, tracking, or otherwise looking for someone or something, you're using Perception, and Artemis is not only the preeminent hunter in her pantheon and famous for her skill, but she is also often mentioned as having incredible perceptive powers, described as "far-sighted" especially frequently (an epithet her brother Apollo also shares). Add to that Dexterity for her continuing descriptions of swiftness, uncanny aim and incredible ability to run down any prey, and she's got her three most important associations neatly sewed up. She doesn't have or demonstrate any other major powers.
But, as we have talked about in regards to Theoi gods before, that doesn't mean she's not powerful, important or is somehow "less" than other deities. All it means is that she's specialized more than some other gods. Some deities - Manannan mac Lir, for example - are all over the map, doing a thousand things dabbling-style, and some deities like Artemis are laser-focused on being the absolute best at the one or two specific things they and only they do in their pantheon. The Theoi are even supported in their specialization by Scion's mechanics, in that you can always assume that while they don't have a ton of purview or Epic associations, they most likely have a ton Arete maxed out for various abilities, the equivalent of having several purviews that are simply "invisible" on a list of associated powers.
We never give gods powers just to "round them out"; we're pretty committed to gods only having associations that are truly the most major concepts and abilities that they represent and demonstrate, and therefore we try not to give anyone extra associations just so we can feel like they have "enough". And really, they don't need more anyway. More purviews certainly means more options, but it doesn't mean a difference in power level - a god with just one purview Avatar to call up is just as powerful as one with five when both pop their ultimate power and go head to head. Particularly for the Theoi, who are usually associated with very strictly defined subject areas and rocking out insane rolls on them thanks to their innate Arete excellence, granting extra associations wouldn't fit for them, and would end up muddying what they're really all about.
Quote: "a little Animal from her wildlife associations and the times she turns people into beasts"
ReplyDeleteAnimal can't do that...yet. Is this a sneak preview? :)
I have long believed that Animal SHOULD be able to turn people into Animals. With "Tranform Person" no longer being a thing in Magic, it seems like it should be here now.
DeleteYou know I can't commit to spoilers, we're miles away from Animal yet! :)
DeleteThere are several interesting animal rewrites on the internet that include cursing people into animals. One of the best I've seen was this one from the forums:
DeleteANIMAL CURSE
Cost: 6 Legend per use
Dice Pool: Animal + Larceny (vs Stamina + Fortitude)
Type: Miscellaneous
Gods have a habit of transforming others into animals either as a blessing to live out their lives in their new form, or as a curse for angering them. She need only touch the person or state intently at them, and they permanently transform into a perfectly mundane looking specimen of any animal. Alternatively, she may transform someone back into their normal form and reverse the effects of a previous Animal Form or Animal Curse.
While in this alternate form, they retain all of their attributes, epic attributes, abilities and purviews. They also gains the movement mechanisms of the animal they have become (flight, burrowing, swimming). Those who wish to penetrate this animal disguise may contest the activation roll with (Perception + Animal Ken).
Being able to turn animals into humans or hybrids would be pretty cool as well. Seriously, what is not awesome about having a Dr. Moreau expy Scion running around.
ReplyDeleteSo the Theoi’s write-ups (and re write-ups) match their cultural theme of being the pinnacle of a chosen discipline How do you think the write ups of the other gods mirror their pantheons cultural themes (if they even do so?) Personally, the Aiser and Anunna look like their powers mirror their view as elemental forces of nature that defend against chaos (having mainly powers of growth and life (sun, sky, fertility etc.). The Bogovi are the same, except that they don’t directly interfere with humanity. The Deva’s multiple purviews feed into their roles as caretakers of the cosmic balance, needing multiple purviews to aid in their expansive roles especially there focus on fire, death and magic which aid moving the cycle of samsara. The Netjer’s focus sky, health and magic feeds into their roles as gods of the heavens and the fertility of the Nile and masters of magic and secrets. The Orisha writ-ups feed into their culture of finding ones destiny with a focus on magic and prophecy (whit a smattering of justice, sky and war for their war like smite happy nature). The Teotl’s powers feed into the cultural theme of keeping the universe (and earth) going and fertile through the use of blood (with heavy death, fertility and war) and community (justice). With almost everyone in the Tuatha having war and their main purpose being taking and holding Ireland their theme is a no brainer. Finally Yazata possess the more positive purviews (Healthy, fertility, sun) with none having chaos or illusion feeding into their theme of truth and absolute good and right (in their eyes).
ReplyDeleteJust pointing this out, but the Aiser are the Etruscan Gods. The Aesir are the Norse Gods.
DeleteThe others I am no expert on, but I will comment on three distinguishing features of the Deva:
Firstly, the high incidence of Death and Magic amongst their ranks is reflective of the fact that the Deva like to consider themselves masters of Fate. While John and Anne seem to disagree with me, I would also award Mystery to Shiva and Brahma, thus making that a fairly common Purview as well. All put together, it reflects a Pantheon that likes to hold as much power away from Fate as possible.
Secondly, note the strong absence of Elemental Purviews amongst the Trimurti and Co. representing the fact that to them, the elements of the World are but Illusions to be moved past. Contrast this with the reverence the Yazata have for the Elemental Purviews.
Thirdly, no Deva has Prophecy. And that is because they NEVER use it. The Deva would never consider asking Fate what its plans or the future are...they would much rather use Magic to manipulate the future into what they want it to be.
About your third point samudra, how do you think that might interact with the new prophecy purviews stronger "choose your own destiny feel", rather than boons that give you visions you don't control?
DeleteI do not think it would change any minds, mostly because, while the new Prophecy allows players far greater control over their powers out-of-game, in-game, it is still all Fate pulling ALL the strings, and the Deva as a Pantheon dedicate eternity to escaping the bonds of Fate and Illusion by attaining Moksha from the cycles of Samsara (a heaping helping of arrogance doesn't hurt). Let me attempt to explain my point. To simplify, let us divide the new Prophecy Boons into six basic types:
DeleteBoons which grant bonuses that can be used as the player sees fit. These would be Hero's Herald, Legendary Vision and Fates Foretold. The player is capable of choosing which action to apply the bonus to . The player, thus, is actively choosing to make a decision. The character in-game, however, is not choosing to say "You know what would be a great time to use that bonus Zoe gave me? Now!". He is passively recognizing "Hey, this is the moment Zoe was talking about!". Thus, he is still dependant on the auspices of Fate.
The second category would be the Omen influencing Boons. These include Omen, Seer of Signs and Unwanted Auspices. The first randomly gives you an Omen as Fate wills, when Fate wills. The second gives you an Omen as Fate wills, but when you choose. The third lets you not accept an Omen. Never can you direct which Omen to receive. Also, noteworthy, is that You cannot just choose to not HAVE and Omen. If you don't look for one, Fate will send one your way anyway.
The third category is made up of Boons that give temporary bonuses to stats. These include True Nature, Destined Drive, Hero of Fate and Tragic Flaw. True Nature is similar to category one in use, though not in effect, so please refer to that section. Destined Drive is both partly randomly rolled and cannot be turned off once learnt. Hero of Fate cannot be turned off once activated. Thus, in both these cases, the Prophet is still very much the servant of Fate. Tragic Flaw, I will admit, is the only Boon that seems to buck the trend; it seems, fluff wise, that the Prophet can use that whenever anyone pisses him off. I have no counter for this one Boon.
The fourth category consists of Boons that directly strengthen Fate's grip on the story. These would be Grip of Fate and Prophesied Greatness and Shared Destiny. As is obvious, these Boons transfer power to Fate, as opposed to giving a God power over Fate.
The fifth category is made of the Boons that deal with Fatigue management. These include Shared Burden, Fated Prowess, Prophetic Vision and Vessel of Fate. These Boons really don't go one way or the other, though one might note that Fated Prowess and Vessel of Fate are rewards for being Fate's lapdog.
The sixth and final category is made up of the 'Save my Bacon' Boons, Expanded Awareness, Flash of Foresight and Avert Disaster. This goes back to the argument for the first category, but is also tied to the discussion about the nature of Legend we had some time ago (refer, comments section, 'Legend Burning Diet' dated March 5th, 2014). YOU, as a player, are choosing to burn Legend to activate a power. Your character does not HAVE Legend. Therefore he is not activating a power, he is experiencing a Vision, as given by Fate according to the needs of the story. If you choose not to spend the cost, that means Fate decided that the story is served better by not providing a vision.
That was probably waaaaaay more detail than you wanted, Jo, so sorry about going overboard. I think I accidentally channelled my Intellect on that one.
@Anne: As co-author of these Boons, and owner of a Prophecy character, do you agree with my analysis? Or did I misinterpret your intent in designing the new Purviews. You've spoken before of the opposition between Magic and Prophecy; I always assumed it was because one attempts to control Fate and where the other gives all control to Fate. The Deva, in my mind, fall firmly in the former camp.
Not at all, thus was a great answer!
DeleteI hadn't actually considered the split between layer and character and how it affects the flavour of new prophecy, it makes sense that while the players get to decide things about their fate the characters are just along for the ride.
Does this mean that when describing prophecies to prophecy users these days, Storytellers should attempt to be very vague so as to allow the player more freedom? Im just confused about how to run the new prophecy really.
My ST experience is non-existent, so take this with a pinch of salt: Prophecies are best done retroactively.
DeleteDon't describe the Prophecy at all. Tell your players what bonuses they have and what they can do, and as they choose their fated moments, weave them into a Prophecy, that was there all along.
Your character always knew there was an ambush there, your character always knew his virtues would see him through, your character always knew this fight would be the high point of the story, when out of character your players just decided all this.
I actually kind of find it funny that what Prophecy, the Purview of peering into the future, actually does in an OOC perspective is retroactively change the past :)
That was a pretty great breakdown, Samudra! And yeah, Prophecy is a bit of a bear to write and run simply because your character sees the future, but the players and ST can't, so most of the time you have to retroactively say, "Aha, that's what I saw!" when the moment comes. (The other option is for the ST to railroad you into a predetermined scene regardless of your choices as a player, but nobody likes that much.) Prophecy characters already know things - or perhaps suspect them or have seen hints of them, if they don't exactly know the details - and it's only out of character that you just found out.
DeleteFor some of them, especially Legendary Vision and Fates Foretold, the boons that involve a player foreseeing a specific scene or moment, we encourage the ST to add a few details that they can hold in reserve - for example, "You sense a lot of water around you," or "you hear howling in the distance." Then, no matter when your players decide those scenes occur, you can add those things, inserting a pack of nemean wolves or adding a sudden flash flood to the scene, so that the prophet immediately knows that The Moment Has Come. It also gives you a way to make sure those scenes really are major and climactically important ones - if you foretell howling when someone uses Fates Foretold and then they pop that in some other scenes, ravening wolves can descend on them and presto, it's now a battle to the death and Fate certainly gave them a heads-up about the fact that it would be important.