Sunday, October 6, 2013

Remember Me

Question: The Bogovi pantheon tree in your site says Pereplut (Perpelut?) is the god of memories. All I found was the dude as the goddess of wine.

Poor Slavic mythology! Finding anything out about it is like trying to get through a carnival funhouse. There are so many conflicting sources, confused pieces of scholarship and downright up-front wrong modern ideas about it that getting anything you can solidly say is legitimate is a long and frustrating road. Believe you me, we went nuts trying to get solid soucing for Slavic mythology when we were working on the Bogovi; they have no written records from the time of their worship, there was heavy syncretization with Christianity once writing did come to the area, and modern Slavic neopaganism has, not to put too fine a point on it, made up a lot of shit.

But luckily for us, Pereplut actually wasn't one we were concerned about being too inaccurate (although we did not have a lot of information on him, which is why we're not considering him Legend 12). The portrayal of Pereplut as god of memory comes from Ivan Hudec's Tales from Slavic Myths, an unfortunately expensive and hard-to-get resource published in Slovakia by their former Minister of Culture. It relates that Pereplut is the god of memory, has a "loud and irrepressible laugh", and is the brother of Chernobog and Byelobog, whose antics he regards with some amusement. (Chernobog and Byelobog aren't up with the other sons of Svarozhich on the tree because of space constraints, but as a general rule, most Slavic gods that don't have other parentage mentioned somewhere were probably created by Svarozhich.)

I see a few internet sites out there that are talking about a Slavic goddess of drinking named Pereplut, but frankly I don't know of any sourcing for that (and none of them try to give any). Other possibilities I have seen about Pereplut - usually theoretical ones, but sometimes we have to take what we can get with Slavic myth! - include some scholars who theorize that he might be another form of Perun (because of the similar names) or the Simargl (because of his name sometimes appearing with hers), some who think he might have some agricultural connections based on the other gods he's invoked with but who have no actual proof of that, and one Bulgarian folk source that suggests he might have been a god of soil and the fertility of the earth. But these are largely conjecture, and whether or not any of them are appropriate is entirely up to a given game's preferences.

By the way, Charles Graves does relate a folk tradition of drinking from a horn during worship of Pereplut, which is probably where someone got the idea that he must be a god of wine. Considering that the Slavs didn't really do much wine, however (they were a mead people most of the time) and that drinking horns are featured in the worship of several of the other Bogovi, most notably Svantovit, I wouldn't jump to any crazy conclusions based only on that.

It's worth noting here that, when you're out there trying to figure out what the hell the ancient Slavs were doing, that they were spread out over a wide range in ancient Europe and were not always doing the same thing in all areas. Chors is a good example; in western Slavic lands (southern Germany, Slovakia, Croatia and so on), she was firmly viewed as the gentle and beautiful moon goddess, victim of Stribog's cruel mistreatment, but in eastern Slavic lands (especially Russia), she was much more strongly connected to the sun and the dawn, racing Slavic heroes in myths where they need to beat the morning to succeed. Slavic gods covered a lot of territory and, as Dvoeverie would suggest, often borrowed things from neighboring cultures and made them their own, so it's seldom that you have a god who isn't at least a little different from place to place. It's theoretically totally possible for a Bogovi god to be revered as the female patron of one idea in one part of the Slavic lands, and the male patron of a totally different idea in another, and nobody would get too bent out of shape about that.

Personally, we would not recommend going with the female-wine-fertility version of Pereplut, simply because we don't see any reputable sources to back it up and it's therefore probably part of the vast soup of messy modern pagan nonsense that surrounds the Bogovi on a daily basis. But then again, this is Scion, so you can always play with the possibilities when it comes to Fatebonds, Dvoeverie and the gods themselves trying out new things.

9 comments:

  1. Could you please not say things like, "modern pagan nonsense." I know your mostly joking but it's still kind of insensitive. Sorry to bring that up, but I've noticed you do tend to say hurtful things like that whenever you bring up Wicca or any other neo-paganism. Not trying to be Officer Politically Correct, but I just hate to see anyone badmouth a religion that people truly belief in.

    Rest of the post was great though!

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    1. Hmm, I'm sorry, I didn't mean to offend anyone! I don't mean that modern paganism itself is nonsense - religions are religions, and they mean a great deal to their practicioners. I just meant that there is a lot of nonsense that comes from modern paganism in an academic sense, in that there's a lot of misinformation (or outright forgery) that comes out of it. That's true of any modern philosophy or religion - much the same way I also sometimes say "modern monotheistic nonsense". I'm not trying to offend the monotheists in the home audience, either.

      I'll try to watch my phrasing for y'all in the future. Thanks for mentioning it!

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    2. Better phrasing: I mean that when you're researching an ancient religion, especially in terms of sourcing, modern pagan versions of that religion often clutter the landscape strongly and make it hard to get where you're going. There's absolutely nothing wrong with modern worship of any gods under the pagan umbrella, nor with interpreting them in a modern way or with new characteristics or anything else; that's all a matter of personal belief and practice. But since that personal belief doesn't apply to academic study of the ancient religion's practices, it throws up a big screen of academic "junk", for lack of a better word, that makes looking for ancient sources or anthropological information difficult for those not looking for someone's modern faith interpretation (valid though it is for that particular person).

      Does that makes sense?

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    3. I'm Wiccan and I've never been offended by you guys. I'm fully aware that we do things that aren't mythologically accurate. I even rant about that from time to time with other Wiccans. Wicca is responsible for some inaccurate beliefs concerning mythology and other pagan religions are as well. Neodruidism, Rodnovery, Asatru, Hellenism, Religio Romana, Kemetism, Stregheria and other Neopagan religions do have beliefs that are modern, so if you want accurate source material thats free of modern ideas, then its better to steer clear of sites for any of these religions. Don't get me wrong, I thinks its awesome that just about every "dead" religion is being practiced again, but we've lost so many myths and rituals that its impossible to practice any of those religions without adding to them or changing things at least slightly.

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  2. Yeah, sure, it totally makes sense where your coming from. Trying research a religion and constantly having to decipher whether this is actually from that ancient religion or from someone's own modern beliefs most be unbelievably difficult. I just cringe at use of the word "nonsense." Maybe whether you run into this problem again just say something to the affect of, "modern interpretation" or something PC friendly like that.

    God. I really hope this doesn't come as me telling you how to run your site. I really like what you do, but sometimes I just can't control my inner SJW and wound up just saying opinionated stuff.

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    1. No, you're totally fine! I'm not immune to saying insensitive things, even though I try not to, so it's useful for someone to point it out politely like you just did. I appreciate it. :)

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  3. Question asker here, the Bogovi seemed to be muddled in just weird and varied sources to extract information out of. Encyclopedia Mythica puts Chors as the dog-headed solar god...so yeah.

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    1. Yeah, there is a whole lot of muddling out there. Unfortunately, the best scholarship on Slavic gods tends not to be translated into English, which makes it doubly difficult to get hold of and understand.

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  4. The "Tales from Slavic Myths" book is quite easy to find. I uploaded Its Czech PDF version here: https://mega.nz/#!h0gkHSiC!XSt6RofwcFQo0vGc0qUWadqLbSJb7cxq5-YZv7vSKJw

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