Question: Let's say that tomorrow, some archaeologists came across some legitimate but crazy game changing evidence about a particular pantheon. For example, texts that suggest Sobek should have Illusion, or that Tezcatlipoca is a squirrel deity, or that Shamash was the true king of the Anunna. Would you try to implement these changes to the gods and pantheons involved, or would you deem them too ridiculous or upsetting to your current order and ignore them?
Well, first of all, "legitimate" is in the eye of the beholder. We'd have to really believe in whatever new piece of evidence's authenticity and religious importance; if there are questions about whether or not it's the genuine article or serious arguments over its translation, we'd probably hold off. We would, however, read everything we could get our hands on about it in the hopes of being able to make that judgment ourselves. We do have healthy egos about this kind of thing, after all.
But if it was a real and true archaeological source that made a strong case for Sobek to have Illusion, then yeah, absolutely, Sobek would gain Illusion. Part of the fun of Scion is of course in playing with the familiar figures of the gods, so it might be a little bit jarring for a while, but we'd also have a great time telling our players the new story of Sobek's illusionary antics and figuring out how he might now interact with his pantheon differently. Goodness knows we've made culturally jarring association decisions before (Loki not having Fire, for example), but the more stories, evidence and details we have about a god, the more meaty a portrait of them we can draw in game, which is always fun.
We tend to make this kind of change as a going-forward thing, so we probably wouldn't retcon Sobek into having done Illusion stuff in our games that he really didn't, but it would be added to his arsenal for the future; likewise, we wouldn't change his Scions' associations if they were already in play, because that wouldn't be particularly fair to them.
Power changes are easy, but your last example, Shamash being suddenly king of the Anunna, would be more of a thorny issue. Changes like that that would be seriously opposed to events and politics already in play would affect the players and the plot a lot more, so while we wouldn't necessarily ignore them, how we'd handle them would depend a lot on what exactly the new myth said and how we could work it into our current narrative. Maybe we'd need to say that Shamash is normally king of the Anunna but is letting Marduk take the reins right now while they're fighting the Titans, or that Shamash has been in charge the whole time but using Marduk as his proxy unbeknownst to the PCs (or Marduk himself, even), or that Shamash is king of a specific area or idea but not necessarily the whole pantheon and all its operations, or that Shamash was king once but was overthrown at some point during the events of our games, or whatever else makes sense.
What we don't want to do is tell our players, "Hey, everything you thought you knew/worked toward/politically accomplished was wrong, start over," because we learned something we didn't already know. It's the Storyteller's responsibility to make sure the story flows smoothly and draws on the appropriate sources to be a good ride, and that doesn't go out the window just because we realize we've made a mistake behind the scenes (and we do make those, even without new archaeological evidence, from time to time). No Storyteller can ever anticipate or remember everything, especially if nobody in the world even knows about it yet, but that just means that you have to be quick on your feet to figure out how to make that work within the game you already have. Tweaking, changing or anything else is always fine, but make sure your players don't suffer because of it.
Tezcatlipoca as a squirrel deity works. He's got a reputation for shapeshifting into anything and everything. Turkeys and skunks are already on the list.
ReplyDeleteIt should also be noted that it also depends on the nature of the god in question. A number of the deities we know and love tend to have rather few actual myths. If someone managed to find hard evidence that, say, Xipe Totec was invoked in burial rites or that Sif headed a contingent of valkyries, then awesome! There's little in their mythic narrative, so getting evidence that lets us know how they were worshipped is very helpful.
However, if the gods in question already have a plethora of myths surrounding them, or worship that continues to this very day, then there's less of a chance that would get accepted immediately. I mean, does Odin REALLY need Earth? And even if we find evidence that say, Shango was a Death God, that didn't seem to be important enough to be a part of his extant religious persona.
That's true, there have been times we haven't given a god an association just because he or she already had ninety and it wasn't necessary and we had the luxury of saying, "Yeah, okay, but that's not quite as strong as these others." Odin and Hecate are career offenders.
DeleteTurkeys and jaguars I knew, but skunks? Details! (sheesh, as if the guy wasn't scary enough!)
DeleteNot sure I agree with the last para though. I mean, if there's totally legit myths for Odin having Earth, I say by definition it means he needs Earth. And there are Pantheons like the Deva where only taking modern extant religious personae into account would require some major association retooling (Vishnu would lose Sun, to begin with).
Yeah, very true - Vedic Vishnu is all about some light connotations, modern Vishnu not so much anymore.
DeleteI'm always torn on that, to be honest. I want everyone to have everything they do... but sometimes those decisions are hard.
So, the progress bar for the Polynesian Pantheon is full.... yet I'm not totally drooling over your awesome Polynesian Gods. I'm confused and antsy right now. Please explain.
ReplyDeleteThat means the writing department (me) is done writing it, but it's still in the layout department (also me) before it can be released by the publishing department (still me).
DeleteBut any time now. :)
Thank you for explaining that...I've been compulsively checking back on this site ever since the bar went full just to see if they were out yet. :D
DeleteI figured that was the case, too, but I've been checking the site compulsively since yesterday waiting for it.
DeleteIt looks like the Inuit are going to carry the day this time for the next pantheon...
Maybe next time, Hittites, maybe next time...
I believe in you someday, Hittites. Your moment will come.
DeleteWhat about formerly Low-Legend Gods that we suddenly discover new information about? Say, someone learns how to read Minoan Linear B and BOOM! We find out everything there ever was to know about the Minoan Pantheon. Or someone discovers a new set of Mayan Codices that reveal the deepest secrets of all the Mayan Gods. Or, better yet, a bunch of standing stones in France fall over and under them we find a bunch of Druids that.. um. Ya know what, we MAGICALLY find out about the Nemetondevos.
ReplyDeleteAs we, the modern audience, learns more about an ancient culture, does the representative Legend of them increase? You've said before that the Minoans wouldn't be Legend 12 because we just don't know anything about them, so they weren't powerful enough to have their Legend survive. So if we did become able to read Minoan and found out about their religion (kinda unlikely since as far as I'm aware, most of what we have is not religious texts but bureaucratic records) , would they then become Legend 12?
We discover a whole epic cycle revolving around Iris, for instance
DeleteYeah, definitely! It wouldn't be that those gods suddenly became Legend 12, but that they had been Legend 12 all along since their myths obviously did survive and we were just being stupid humans for a few minutes. In that case we would retcon that they were that powerful the whole time, and come up with reasons they hadn't been involved in the current game plot-wise. Maybe they were busy, maybe they hate everyone else, maybe they were magically sealed away and just escaped, whatever works for your game.
DeletePretty much the same as you'd do whenever you add a new pantheon to the game; we had a plot device involving ancient Justice wards and treaties to explain why the Bogovi only showed up halfway through our god-level game, for example.
Honestly the simple fact they're the Bogovi explains that. They just don't get involved with mortals. But gods...
DeleteYeah, true, they were just like, "We don't give no damns about your problems in Humantown."
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