Question: You mention in the Slav sidebar that STs can use the Scion: Companion if they did decide to create a Scion of Baba Yaga, but a lot of the purviews & associated Attributes still seem to contradict the actual myths of Baba Yaga. Seriously, Animal (Chicken)?
We're not going to lie here. We really hate the Slavic material in Scion: Companion.
It's not really the fault of the writers. Slavic mythology is very difficult to find good material on in English; there's a ton of misinformation and modern pagan invention out there muddying up the waters, and since most of the Slavic material was written as example fluff for pantheon-building rather than as a proper pantheon, it probably wasn't a project that had a lot of deep research go into it. There's also the issue of the writers being forced to follow the previously released god-awful adventure in Scion: Demigod, and of the restrictions of the Soviet pantheon in the same supplement forcing a lot of modern imagery and ideas onto the Slavic gods. In short, it's a hot mess that we're not sure anyone could have done a lot better with.
But, like most of the inaccurate writeups, odd fringe god-choices and PSP-clearly-based-on-a-Neil-Gaiman-novel stuff surrounding Scion's "official" treatment of the Slavs, Baba Yaga's writeup and stats in Companion (page 243) really don't make a lot of sense. A lot of her fluff is actually great stuff pulled straight from folklore, but she's been shoehorned into the miserable mess of the Soviet pantheon with a bunch of other figures that she doesn't really belong with, and whomever statted her was clearly just on a mission to give her as many associated powers as possible. Animal (Chicken) is perhaps the most ludicrous choice, and is probably there solely because her hut has chicken feet, but since Baba Yaga herself is horrible but not distinctly poultry-esque, the association is wildly sketchy. Similarly, the association of her with Sky is probably because of her habit of flying about in a mortar and pestle, but since she has little to nothing to do with weather, storms or the air itself, that looks like a pretty clear case of a magical flying relic, not a purview. Baba Yaga's name might be obscurely etymologically connected to a term for illness, but while she does occasionally seem to have connotations of disease, the association is much too light to hand her The Scourge. And while we get the Epic Appearance for her horrible visage, what's with giving the hag who can be outsmarted by normal mortals Ultimate Intelligence?
Basically, we suggested that Storytellers could use the writeup for Baba Yaga in Companion if they wanted to because we strive to keep our new pantheon supplements as compatible with the official material in the books as possible, so that players who don't use our crazy sprawling set of custom rules and powers can get as much use out of them as those who do. We didn't want to do a whole new writeup of Baba Yaga as a playable goddess because the official books already include one, and it seemed most fair to direct people there if they wanted to use it.
But yeah, our recommendation would be to not use it, or at the least to edit it until it makes enough sense to be used.
The Bogovi supplement's writeup on Baba Yaga (on page 30, for those interested) sets her as a Legend 11 goddess and therefore not a traditional choice for a divine parent; her Legend was certainly strong enough to survive to the present day, but she's remembered as a folkloric witch figure and has lost her once-divine background whereas the other Slavic gods are at least still considered deities, so it seemed appropriate to set her slightly below them. You could make the argument, however, that while the other Bogovi are remembered as gods, they have far fewer tales spun about their deeds than does Baba Yaga, so we could definitely see a Storyteller deciding to run with her as Legend 12.
If you did decide to run Baba Yaga as a divine parent, try this associated setup on for size: Manipulation for her powers of bewitchery, Appearance for her terrible visage, Magic for her skill with curses and enchantments and Psychopomp for her role as keeper of the borders between worlds. You might also consider Wits, which she sometimes demonstrates in her ability to snare her prey through quick thinking despite being demonstrably not overly bright, or Strength, for the stories of her ironclad grip and terrible physical prowess. Companion also suggests Chaos, which, while not one we would have chosen out of the hat, probably makes more sense than everything else it suggests. For abilities, I'd suggest Animal Ken, Athletics, Fortitude, Occult, Presence Survival. Or, if you're feeling particularly whimsical, Control (Mortar & Pestle).
I thought of something funny to explain the inconsitiences in my setting. Because she is cursed by the 3 question rule, she never answers any questions about her movie apperances('cause people asked too many questions about the movies). So people mistake her silence as proof that the movies must be true. Just though i'd share that.
ReplyDeleteI really love the three-question rule - it's one of my favorite details about anybody ever. The trouble Scions can get into!
DeleteSo would you make the maiden (forget her name) of her most well known tale a demigod, and if so of who?
ReplyDeleteVasilisa and most other heroes from Slavic folktales are not Demigod level. They're not flying around under their own power of wielding straight-up full-on magic. So they're probably Heroes if they're Scions at all.
DeleteThe story of Vasilisa and Baba Yaga leaves her mother totally open, so she may be a Scion of some Russian Goddess with the talking doll being either a Guide or a Relic that was given to her when her mother had to go back to the Overworld. Vasilisa doesn't really do much in the story that gives her Legendary qualities. Maybe a dot or so of Epic Wits, since she kinda thinks on her feet... but honestly the doll is doing 90% of the work.
I'd agree, Vasilisa is definitely not a demigod, and probably pretty unlikely to be a Scion at all. She's smart for a human, but she doesn't really do much that says Scion to me.
DeleteSince the Slavic gods are traditionally cranky about Scions, she might be a cool example of a mortal being used as a tool by the gods, since they're usually forbidden from having Scions to do it for them instead. Or she might just be a pretty smart human; Baba Yaga actually has a lot of stories where people of basically human intelligence triumph over her only through borrowed relics, magical beings that intervene or Baba Yaga's own shortcomings.
when I said demigod,I meant hero level scion. Got to remember to say scion from now on.
Deletemaybe a dot of epic appearance and/or charisma considering she's the also the quintesential poor but beautiful/pure hearted maiden.
ReplyDeleteBack on Baba Yaga herself, if I had to stat her.. I'd probably go with Epic Strength, Epic Appearance, Magic, Mystery and maybe Epic Manipulation. I'm iffy on that one because in all the stories I recall, she doesn't really do much manipulating. She might have a little Epic Manipulation to grab Overt Order and such, but not enough for it to be her THING. The Little Grandmother is generally rather straight forward and she tends to get manipulated more than doing the manipulation.
ReplyDeleteMystery is because she's often the source of answers to questions or happens to know exactly the right thing to solve the problem at hand, even if she REALLY hates answering questions and tries to eat whoever asks. Anne's right, she isn't a very bright lady, but she just KNOWS all this random stuff.
These are also good points!
DeleteSo, i'm reading this and i'm a bit confused - was baba yaga ever worshiped as a goddess? Google only nets me unreliable new age/wicca pages with no sources. So what gives?
ReplyDeleteYezhibaba/Jezibaba/Baba Yaga is most likely a victim of euhemerization, which hit Slavic legend hard; most deities were reduced to witches, monsters or saints when Catholicism made its entrance into the area, and a lot of them survive today in fairy tales in very different forms from their original divine ones. Ivan Hudec's Tales from Slavic Myth, our go-to source, lists Yezhibaba as a goddess in her own right; similarly, the eighteenth-century Rossiiskaia grammatika lists her as a Slavic deity along with several others, although she lacks a saint equivalent there as most of the other gods are given. Various scholars have therefore interpreted her as a goddess, most likely associated with death, sorcery and/or the boundaries between worlds, whose myths have been rendered down over time into fairy tales and folk anecdotes.
DeleteI'm not surprised you don't find much on Google, though - even though it seems pretty likely Baba Yaga was a goddess and had a strong enough Legend that we remember things about her even now, we don't know all that much about how she might have been worshiped or even what for, so any religious ceremony or cult information you find on her is likely to be modern reconstruction or invention.