Question: How do the gods respond to their Scions taking non-native animals as totems? How do they feel about their children adopting such exotic animals as their symbols? And what about the Nahualli (loved the article on it)? How do the Aztecs feel about their kids taking such a culturally exclusive privilege and manifesting it in the form of such a foreign beast?
A neat question, and one that certainly comes up a lot in Scion, where the children of the gods are almost certainly usually more multicultural (or at least exposed to more cultures as a result of the melting pots of the world) than their ancient forefathers. I would say that it mostly depends on the personality of the god; extremely traditional gods may be disappointed in children who appear to be eschewing their time-honored symbols in favor of some newfangled thing like Animal (Seahorse), while others, who were globetrotters in their own youth or just don't have a strong investment in their childrens' iconography, may not care much unless the Scion has chosen an animal with specifically negative connotations in their home culture (e.g., don't choose an animal that represents womanly fertility if you're a warrior dude, unless you want to challenge the status quo or don't care that your pantheon will continually laugh at you). Some already established gods have foreign animals as their totems anyway; Dionysus is associated with the leopard, for example, partially because he's a god of foreignness and exoticism. There's a whole world of animals for Scions to explore, so if they're choosing something off-the-wall, the Storyteller should have a basic idea of how the pantheon (or specific gods, most importantly their parent) might view it and what the Scion can do to make it more accepted if necessary. We've also had godly parents in our games make a concerted effort to guide their children to animals they approved of, usually by giving them a relic with that Animal purview on it or a creature companion that they can't talk to or deal with until they do, which sometimes works and sometimes backfires because the Scion doesn't like being railroaded.
Nahualli are a bit of a different situation (and I'm glad you liked the previous post! Nahualli are one of my favorite things to talk about!). There's no concern over the idea of a Scion being disrespectful by choosing a foreign animal; Scions don't actually choose their nahualli, but are rather born already twinned to that creature (the player gets to choose it out of character, of course, but for the Scion it's merely the fact of life). Your nahualli is what your nahualli is; you can't choose or change it after the fact. With that being the case, it's unlikely that too many Aztec gods will be actively unhappy with their children for their nahualli animal, any more than they'd be actively unhappy with them for having blue eyes or long legs. (Though, being the violently ethnocentric dudes that they are, it's not out of the realm of possibility that they might actively blame some hapless kid for any of those things.)
No, it's more likely that, if you're an Aztlanti Scion and your nahualli happens to be something really weird and foreign to them like a walrus, they'll just think there's something wrong with you. The creature's the other half of your soul, after all - if it's something bizarre, chances are they'll see that as assurance that you yourself are bizarre, and most likely defective in some way as a result of your having a lot of non-Aztec ancestry (which is going to be the case for 99% of Aztlanti Scions, since there are very few Nahua people left that don't have at least some Caucasian ancestry at this point). They may not take direct action against you (though temperamental or prideful gods might be tempted to put you down lest your weirdness reflect poorly on them), but they're probably going to be some shade of confused, disappointed or suspicious. Dealing with that kind of situation would be a heavy but also interesting burden for an Aztlanti Scion, who might choose to live with the stigma, try to convince others it isn't a big deal, lash out against his pantheon or even try to introduce the critter to the Mexican area in a bid to make it "local", while his parents treat him as a sad disappointment, a potential traitor or just not quite one of the family.
Oddly enough, the issue hasn't really come up for us; Aztlanti Scions tend to choose native animals as their nahualli or totem, probably because they're playing an Aztec Scion because they're interested in Aztec iconography and flavor anyway and don't have a reason not to. (Well, except Geoff, who wants a bear nahualli and keeps trying to convince the Aztlanti to let him go on a spirit quest to find it, but considering that he is entirely a foreigner, that's not particularly weird from anyone's perspective.) I certainly wouldn't stop anyone from going for it, though (just steeple my fingers in glee for the tribulations to come).
Those wacky Aztecs. You can be a snake or a jaguar all day, but show up with your twin the giraffe and suddenly nobody wants to talk about you at parties anymore.
what about if someone wanted this:
ReplyDeletehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quetzalcoatlus
It's a Texan native creature, so I doubt the Aztlanti would have any major problem with it. The older gods probably remember the creature. It's not part of Aztec culture, however, which is much younger than that, so there still might be some confusion or suspicion on the part of the gods - a Scion with a prehistoric totem might be a dangerous throwback to the Titans or similar, so they might find themselves under very close scrutiny.
DeleteOf course, the normal issues of having a prehistoric creature apply. The Scion would have to buy up some Animal boons that weren't very useful for quite some time to really bond with the thing (though I usually assume that Scions who choose prehistoric creatures are planning to reintroduce the species later with Create Animal so they don't have nothing to work with).
The imagery makes me think of the later mounts of Tolkien's Nazgul. "...a winged creature: if bird, then greater than all other birds, and it was naked, and neither quill nor feather did it bear, and its vast pinions were as webs of hide between horned fingers; and it stank. A creature of an older world..."
"Of course, the normal issues of having a prehistoric creature apply. The Scion would have to buy up some Animal boons that weren't very useful for quite some time to really bond with the thing"
DeleteHow many boons does one actually need to bond with it? I mean out of your setup only 1,2,4 are filled with powers completely useless for an extinct animal(and with the right knacks you could be munching on fossils.. so 2 is not completely out.. while 4 is abit lacking when you can change into the animal later).
What a horrible name for that creature. I like that they used it...but that doesnt fit at all.
DeleteIm not sure they "need" animal to bond with it. Certainly animal probably has bonuses associated that they cant use without having animal(depending on how you "stat" the "creature") but to actually just have a bond with it, a good helping of charisma and animal ken should be fine.
DeleteAnd thats just using bond in the sense of someone you can get along with. Theoretically the "bond" happens at your naming when the creature is matched with you forever.
Yeah, he makes good points, sorry for being unclear. I just meant to be able to talk to it and do various cool things with Animal boons with it - technically, you don't have to have your nahualli's Animal if you don't want to.
DeletePoor Kettila's problem in our games isn't that she doesn't have enough Animal (Axolotl) (though I'm sure some would help), but that she has zero Animal Ken so the thing doesn't like her enough to help her out.
Right but what I am saying is Extinct animal users aren't really all that disadvantaged, i mean there's no reason to buy every boon in a purview unless you are going for the ultimate and that's way at legend 12.
DeleteAnd by then you've probably taken Protean understanding and can buy those useless knacks and have them work on anything, or have caused enough T-rexes to be running around that communication and command of them is useful.
In the first five levels, out of 8 boons there are 5 you cant use. Levels 1, 2, and 4 have no option that you can use. So you have to buy a boon that will be useless for quite some time. The problem mostly comes up with hero level scions. At legend 3 there are zero boons for your animal that will actually work.
DeleteSo two legend 3 scions one has a purview he cant use at all, the other can talk to animals, command animals and eat animals for benefits. That is a DISTINCT disadvantage.
I can see that as an issue, but its not even a uniquely Extinct species one. For example in the game I am in, we have three characters who favor Animal thanks to their parents. A Scion of Bast(cats!), a Scion of Inari(Foxes!), and my character a Scion of Xi Wangmu(Panthers.. and Tigers). Our entire legend 2-3 game time was in an urban enviroment. I saw the ability to talk to Zoo Animals(or eat Hightly endangered ones) as a pretty worthless buy in. And that is pretty true with all sorts of awesomely thematic ones, Elephants, Lions, Eagles really the only people who get much out of those levels are ones who pick stuff that's ubiquitous.
DeleteIt's not really the same, though. Sure, if the PCs never go find those animals, then yeah, they're not using their boons, but they have the option to do so if they want to. They can go to the zoo or nature preserve and talk to those critters (or steal them from the zoo to hang out with, which one PC with Animal (Monkey) in our games kept doing); they can use Call of the Wild whenever they're in the appropriate environments to get some to show up. They might not get any use out of those boons because they're not near those animals, but they always have the option to go find them if they want to. Scions with Animal for extinct or imaginary species don't have that option.
DeleteYeah. If your animal is anything that is living you can always go where it lives and talk to it/command it to come with you, and now you have an animal all the time. Even if the important stuff in your game is taking place in an urban environment, there is always the option to leave and use your boons somewhere else.
DeleteSome of my players have run into situations like this all the time, both for good and bad. Our resident Loa has Animal (Dove), and managed to bond with Hachiman over it, later allowing for a treaty to be made between the Loa and Amatsukami. Meanwhile, our poor child of Dagon is resolutely avoiding anything Water or Animal (Fish) related, given that she has a cult tracking her down under the erroneous belief that she's trying to bring about the rise of the Great Old Ones, and so she's investing in Animal (Crane).
ReplyDeleteHeh, I laughed out loud - is she a crane because cranes eat fish, or is that just an awesome side effect?
DeletePoor Scions of Dagon. Lovecraft has not made their lives easy.
It was sort of both. She went for Crane because she wanted a bird (something aerial instead of aquatic), and picked out a crane for the grace connotations. We then realized that Cranes are very much fish-eaters. She also makes a point of dragging her Band to seafood restaurants everywhere they go. It also doesn't help that she's starting to discover just what her Malak Purview can do, and her Band keeps joking about founding a city called Innsmouth.
DeleteI remember that I chose my Scion of Xochiquetzal's Nagual of the Shrike pretty much because that they are the only predatory songbird.
ReplyDeleteAnd now, since the group is nearing God, I realized that either the other Teotl are going to avoid her just based on the Shrike factor, or enlist her to go run errands for Huitzilopotchli due to the fact that they have very similar Naguals.
I had to google shrikes. They seem cuddly.
DeleteShe found it in a vision quest. It was picking up other vision-animals and impaling them on a cactus whenever they tried to talk to her.
DeleteThat is awesome.
Delete