Thursday, February 14, 2013

At Death's Door

Question: What's the best and worst Underworld to spend all eternity in?

Well, if you gotta go, you might as well go in style.

There are actually quite a few really, really nice Underworlds that anyone can enjoy spending eternity in; there are cultures in Scion that dump everybody into the Pit of Despair upon expiration, but there are more that have at least one pleasant option in among the eternities of torture, enforced reincarnation or dismal boredom. Death is pretty scary, though, so even so the nasty places far outweigh the nice ones.

Let's break it down into three categories!

Awesome Underworlds!:

1) Mag Mell. "Mag Mell" means "Plain of Joy", and it's serious about it. Everyone here is eternally young, immune to disease, surrounded by music, food, alcohol and happiness, and they never have to leave to do anything unpleasant. In short, it's an eternal Irish party.
2) Valhalla. The coveted Underworld overseen by Odin for slain warriors, this one may not be for everyone, but for those who love it, they'll love it forever. The mead, wenches and heroic poetry never stop except when you get to go out and spend the day in glorious battle before coming back to get drunk again. If you're a fan of hititng people with swords and then all going out for a drink together, it's your dream come true.
3) Folkvangr. Freya's half of the spirits of the courageous dead go instead to Folkvangr and the feasting hall Sessrumnir, said to be enormous, beautiful and never without room for more dead dudes to come a-feasting. We know less about what dead people do here, but it's one of the places Viking warriors aspired to end up after death, and considering that Freya's in charge of her own eternal combat, it's probably pretty similar to Valhalla (except bonus: you get to look at Freya for eternity instead of Odin).
4) The House on the Left. The awesome, resplendent paradise of Huitzilopochtli, where things are so bright and amazing that everyone has to carry shields and just peek out the arrow-slits. One of the most coveted destination for warrior souls - plus, the big man sometimes lets you take field trips to the world as hummingbirds.
5) Tlalocan. A lush, eternally springtime paradise full of growing things and unending sources of food. No one works here or has to do anything but relax and enjoy the place, surrounded by fresh, clean water and abundant gardens. Of course, Tlaloc lives here, too, but he probably doesn't eat dead people.
6) Raj. The pleasant paradise of the Slavic afterlife is pretty similar to Tlalocan, actually - lush, beautiful waterways and growing gardens, abundant fruit and restful song, rivers of honey, paradise and relaxation. Sometimes the Alkonost rolls through and sings sweet, sweet love to your dead ears. It's the best.
7) Annwn. The Welsh Underworld of awesomeness and fun, where again there's no pain, sickness or old age, everyone always has as much to eat as they want and everything is awesome. Contradictorily, the creatures that live in Annwn tend to be hideous and horrifying... but I guess everybody needs a good border guard, especially if, like the Welsh death-god Arawn, they insist on declaring war on the living now and then.
8) Garothman. The heavenly eternal paradise of the righteous in Zoroastrian myth is peaceful, pleasant, and free of all wickedness, evil or worry. Ahhh.

Terrible Underworlds!:

1) Irkallu. The ancient Mesopotamians were having none of this "nice underworld for nice people" business; everyone dies, and when they do, everyone goes to Irkallu, the dreary, impregnable citadel of the dead. No one here remembers who they were or has any joy; they live in the dark, locked behind impenetrable walls, forever. There's no outright torture, but it's pretty unpleasant nonetheless.
2) Nepesh. Being literally swallowed into a death-god's mucus-slimed maw, then spending eternity sort of slogging around down there. Delightful.
3) Hel. Hel is deeply unpleasant, both the place and its dour ruler. It's cold, it's final, and it's riddled with disease and prevents the most depressed of souls from resting or finding any relief. Its lady does not care about your problems.
4) Naraka. Naraka has a good eventual intent, which is to rehabilitate souls so that they become fit for reincarnation, but that intent takes the form of brutal torture and punishment that can last for centuries before you're ready to head back into the world again. They're setting you on fire, they're boiling you in oil, they're pulling your fingers off one by one, but it's okay, guys; they're doing it for you.
5) Yomi. The Japanese underworld is a hideous place, a deep hell filled with unyielding darkness, permeating rot and all the nasty death-monsters Japanese imagination can come up with (which is a lot). Nobody is happy here, and nobody ever gets to leave. Jigoku, the Japanese Buddhist version of the place, is even worse, a depressing fusion of Yomi and Naraka.
6) Mictlan. The major Aztec underworld is a giant, miserable cattle-call of a place, a hall with no rest, joy or sustenance in eternal blackness, where the only object in your universe are the terrible lord and lady of the dead, Mictlantecuhtli and Mictecacihuatl. Enjoy spending eternity in silent terror, staring at their bony faces.
7) Uku Pacha. Uku Pacha has the sad distinction of actually having gotten worse over the centuries. Originally much like the world above, with every soul gaining a plot of land on which to grow food to slake their eternal hunger, it wasn't a really fun place since everyone basically worked nonstop to feed themselves, but it wasn't too terrible. Post-conquest, however, Inca myth now holds that so many of their people have been killed that each soul has no more than a fingernail-width of land to call their own. There goes the neighborhood.
8) Nav. Morena balances pleasant Raj out with depressing, hideous Nav. A dark, depressing world where the dead remain forever, cold and wretched, the only things you can hope for here are someone bringing light in occasionally (which you will hate, because it'll hurt your dead eyes) or perhaps being selected by the goddess to go back to the World for a day as a crow, croaking doom at passersby. You never get more than a day, though, and it's done expressly to remind you of what you can't have anymore.
9) Di Yu. Do you want to spend eternity in a place that has sections like the Division of Dismemberment and the Hall of Endless Bees? I don't.
10) Metnal/Xibalba. All the rotting hideousness of Yomi, married to all the blind, screaming terror of Mictlan. The death god will burn the living shit out of you upon arrival before throwing you into an icy lake of sadness, and things will not get better from there.
11) Duzakh. A dark, stinking, claustrophibically narrow hole into which the evil dead are dropped, where you can enjoy wondering whether you're going to be tortured for the next five hundred years or whether one of the resident horrible demons will run across you and devour your soul first.

Even Chance Underworlds!:

1) Hades. Hades has awesome places within it, like the Isles of the Blessed or the Elysian Fields, where dead souls live blessed, fulfilled lives of pleasure, accomplishment and happiness. But it also has awful places, like Tartarus, where inventive eternal punishments (like those suffered by Ixion, Sisyphus or Tantalus) await miscreants. And it also has a whole lot of basically neutral territory, like the Asphodel Fields, where everyone basically wanders around aimlessly thinking that at least it could be worse.
2) Hamistagan. Did you know Catholicism didn't invent Purgatory? The Persians did, and the Zoroastrian realm is pretty much identical: a grey, formless, empty void where souls who are exactly balanced between good and evil go to hang around for an undisclosed period of time before getting to go to Duzakh or Garothman.
3) Duat. At the end of Duat, you go to the incredible eternal paradise of Osiris, where everyone is granted a second life, more glorious than the first, to be lived in his lush and fertile underworld. But you also have to get through the nine million miles of sad, dark, confusing privation to get there and then make it through the heart-weighing ceremony, so it sort of evens out.

Of course, most of the really nice Underworlds have stringent admission requirements; Folkvangr, Valhalla and the House on the Left are available only to those who die in glorious battle, Mag Mell and the Elysian Fields are reserved only for those who live heroic and epic lives, Tlalocan requires you to die in one of a number of unpleasant ways to be considered, Gathoman and Raj are open only to those who have been judged righteous, good people and Duat requires meticulous completion of complex and ceremonial burial practices. Most ancient cultures, when they believed you got to go somewhere nice after death at all, believed that you had to do something good with your life first to achieve that. Joe the Shoemaker isn't destined for the eternal awesomeness of Mag Mell - unless he decides to be Joe the Shoemaking Crusader for Justice and kills a bunch of enemy soldiers, and then more power to him. It's a common ancient idea that your afterlife is a sort of continuation of your first life, so what you are and do make a difference when it comes to where you go.

Or, there are cultures like the Mesopotamians. Welcome to Irkallu, here's your cell, have a nice eternity.

20 comments:

  1. What about Mount Meru? According to both Companion and modern Hindu religion, righteous dead people go there to spend eternity in the presence of their patron deity. So does Sumeru Parvat somehow do double duty as Overworld and Underworld, or is the the entire Hindu pantheon living in the Underworld?

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    1. You said it down below, but Mount Meru as a destination for the dead is a pretty modern idea. Meru's originally the heavenly mountain and abode of the gods, but like most Overworlds it's restricted to deities; it's not until you start getting influence from much later religions (Christianity's a good example) that the idea of dead people hanging out directly with gods is introduced.

      There is a separate Underworld kind of around/in/sort of part of Mount Meru, though, in Svarga, where the souls of dead warriors (or later, after outside influence, any particularly righteous people) get to go hang out with Indra for eternity. There's probably also some bleedover between the two zones there, too.

      And like you said below, Hinduism has been around so long and in so many different places that there are tons of regional variations by now, so the conception of the afterlife is totally different from place to place and time to time. :)

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  2. I'm no Hindu, so I could be wrong, but I always thought if you died, good or bad, you were reincarnated, and the beginning circumstances of your next life were determined based on how you behaved in your previous one. Naraka was for the people who were SO bad that there is no natural way to punish you for how bad you were, and that you need supernatural beatings until they can throw you back in as an earthworm or something.

    also, "Di Yu. Do you want to spend eternity in a place that has sections like the Division of Dismemberment and the Hall of Endless Bees? I don't." Help, I'm dying of laughter, don't let me go there.

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    1. That's one point of view. Hinduism, being the maddeningly varied religion that it is, has almost as many views on the afterlife as followers. But the Meru=Heaven, Naraka=Hell view is very popular where I come from (probably because Bengal has a strong Christian presence), so it's the one I was brought up with.

      Of course, that is all modern religion. I'm not sure what the case is in ancient mythology, but I find it interesting that only the Deva Overworld has this problem of having souls in it. All the other 'heavens' like Tlalocan, are very obviously Underworlds, but the Hindu pantheon very explicitly has its official residence in Meru, and it's also teeming with dead people.

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    2. Yeah, you do get reincarnated in Hinduism (assuming you haven't achieved moksha, but if you did that you don't have to die anyway, yay you!). But you go to Naraka first, because they have to purify/punish you of whatever sins or mistakes you committed in the last life and decide what new life you're ripe for. Naraka's an important waystation everyone needs to go through; the reincarnation process isn't really automated.

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  3. On the shitty side:

    Adlivun, the Inuit underworld, is like the worst airport terminal ever. You thought the TSA was bad? Well here is some fun for you.

    When an Inuk dies their souls are brought down into the deep sea underworld of Adlivun by the psychopomps Pinga and Angunta (Sedna's Dead Parents), a frozen abyssal wasteland, ruled by an angry bitter seas queen known as Sedna. There the souls are tourtured for a year by the various gods and meanies that called Adlivun home. The worst is having to share a bed with Angunta, where he pokes you with his boney fingers...at least I hope those are his fingers.



    But you eventually get to go to Quidlivun, the Land of the Moon for Eternal rest and peace...so...thanks for that?

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    1. Inuit mythology: the only place where life is always worse than wherever you are now.

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  4. No offense to Ann’s knowledge, calling Irkallu, Mictlan and even Nepheresh unpleasant seems disingenuous. The way I understand it many of these underworlds were not seen as pleasant or unpleasant. They merely represented the shadow world beyond death, and the unpleasantness came from the terror and darkness that seemingly came with death. Remember that in historical terms Irkallu was the first underworld, and thus the first idea of what may lie beyond. I equate it with the fields of asphodel which may have inspired the fields in the first place. Mictlan and Yomi don’t seem to be any different. It’s said to take four days to get there being led by Xolotl through dangers such as crashing mountains and winds of knives. Would anyone go there if it is a nasty as you say? I think Yomi is the same way, a realm that represents the shadow world unless one of the texts says otherwise? No offense Ann, but are these unpleasant versions accurate? Or are they Christian colored where anything that does not look like heaven is automatically seen as hell? I don’t see unpleasantness beyond the fear of darkness and the shadowy unknown.

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    1. The question isn't really asking how each pantheon/culture saw their respective underworlds, Anonymous.

      It was worded in a specific way that prompted Anne to write about them from a perspective that the reader can relate to, and her own.

      I've been following the blog for a while, and I believe there are a couple of other posts that deal with how each culture reacted to their relevant Underworld myths (I can't really look for them right now, but a quick search might help.)

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    2. Gotta disagree, I'm afraid.

      From "Ishtar's Descent into the Underworld", the very opening lines:

      To the underworld, land of no return,
      To the house which none leaves who enters,
      To the house whose entrants are bereft of light,
      Where dust is their sustenance and clay their food,
      They see no light but dwell in darkness,
      They are clothed like birds in wings for garments,
      And dust has gathered on the door and bolt.


      From "Edinna Usagga", when Dumuzi's sister is trying to save him from the underworld:

      The river of Irkallu lets no water flow -
      Water from it slakes no thirs.
      The field of Irkallu grows no grain -
      No flour is milled from it.
      The sheep of Irkallu carry no wool -
      No cloth is woven from it.


      From "The Death of Gilgamesh", when Enlil is explaining to Gilgamesh what his impending death entails:

      You must have been told that this is what your being human involves.
      You must have been told that this is what the cutting of your umbilical cord involved.
      The darkest day of humans awaits you now.
      The solitary eternity of death awaits you now.
      The unstoppable flood-wave awaits you now.
      The unequal struggle awaits you now.
      The unavoidable battle awaits you now.
      The evil from which there is no escape awaits you now.


      Irkallu is above all things a dismal, dark and sad place where the dead are doomed to remain for eternity with no hope of parole and nothing remaining that could give them happiness. It sucks, in short. There's certainly an element of fear of death and the unknown, but the Mesopotamians are very clear about describing how very much they were not looking forward to getting stuck in Irkallu - not because they didn't know what it would be like, but because they did know what it would be like and it wasn't pleasant.

      I don't know if you've been around here much, but we do our utmost to roll with the original versions of myths, not anything that comes from Christianity. While Christianity did indeed influence a lot of religions' ideas of the afterlife - in threads above, in fact, we're talking about how the idea of mortals living with the gods after death is almost always a later concept introduced into religions by Christianity - it didn't invent the idea of the underworld as an uncomfortable and unpleasant place. Plenty of religions were doing that long before Christianity was a twinkle in Judaism's eye.

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    3. I'm not sure what you mean by the idea of no one going there if it were unpleasant, also? Mortals don't get a choice about where they go after death in most ancient religions; the psychopomp comes and gets them and they get deposited in whatever underworld they're qualified for. If they were awesome enough to get into one of the nice ones, great! If they weren't, off into the dark sadness you go. There are different levels of depressingness in the underworlds - some are actively filled with tortures and horrors (and again, that's definitely not something invented by Christianity - Hinduism and Zoroastrianism had that well under control long before Christianity came on the scene!), which for others its the eternity in silence/darkness/misery that sucks.

      But alas, nobody gets to volunteer to go to the Elysian fields instead of Tartarus. If you suck enough that you're supposed to go to Tartarus, that's where Hermes is putting you.

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    4. Nepesh, I have to admit, is much less quotable; it's very sketchily described in Canaanite myth, despite the fact that a lot of the action of Baal's spat with Mot occurs down there. In writing the fictionalized version of it for Scion, I drew heavily on the mythic descriptions of Mot swallowing the death down into his throat and of the Underworld itself being dank, moist and wetly rotting, as well as the accounts in the myths of Resheph of it being ringed by a desert (the city of Chamerya is also mentioned in the Ugaritic texts as the home of Mot, though it's sparsely described). I also pulled a lot from the Hebrew Sheol, which, being the Underworld of a contemporary religion that was heavily influenced by the Canaanites anyway, was likely to have a lot of similar features (up to and including the rephaim). (Please note this is the original Sheol, not the later Christian conception of Hell, and includes no punishment component but is rather just a dark, dank and shitty place to hang out forever.)

      Aaaand Mictlan! Mictlan is seriously a terrible, terrible place. It is. Mesoamerican mythologies (moreso the Maya, but the Aztecs are definitely not a lot better) had a very strong abhorrence of death and the underworld. The fruits of the underworld are described as rotting and hideous in the myth of their creation, and the place is crawling with the three unpleasant totemic death-creatures of Aztec myth - bats, spides and owls. Mictlantecuhtli himself i the absolute bogeyman of the religion, representing everything terrifying.

      I can't quote for you because Aztec mythology is mostly recorded pictorially, but this is what you would be looking at, forever. Only, you know, viscerally terrifying, body-part-showing and foul-smelling (also frequent features of the underworld in Mesoamerican myth).

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  5. Isn't Di Yu explicitly not Eternal? Its cruel and clearly defined by Legalism but eventually you leave.

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    1. Depends on your striation of Chinese myth. Most strains of Buddhism include reincarnation after a suitable bazillions of years being punished for your crimes, so in that way it can be a lot like Naraka (which it was at least partly based on when Buddhism broke away from Hinduism). The oldest versions of the Chinese underworld (pre-Qin Chao) had a more traditional, eternally dark nobody-ever-leaves kind of mentality, though they were also less punishment-heavey.

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  6. Any thoughts on how to reconcile those views? Burning effigies for the ancestors seems kind of bizarre in the context of, 'All torture, all the time.' Hard to spend cash when existence consists of crawling over blades in between bouts of tongue-tearing.

    Unless the cash is meant for bribes, though it's hard to imagine demons dumb enough to accept bribes in Chinese hell.

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  7. I apologize, perhaps I didn’t make myself clear and I over complicated things. Everything you say makes sense, and it fits into the paradigm that these underworlds are entirely representational of peoples fear and abhorrence of death synchronized with their own cultures views on what terrifies them. It just seems that you are making them sound more hellish than I thought they would be, especially Irkallu, the first known belief in an afterlife. It just surprises me that even though people did fear death their underworlds weren’t envisioned as better places, and I always thought they were sad and dreary due to the reason stated above. The translation you gave sounds exactly like a description of un-life and the shadowy netherworld first conceived by people who were first beginning to understand and fear death. Thank you for that. That is all I was trying to say, and it seems you were trying to explain, so thank you for the more detailed explanation. I also heard that Mictlan isn’t eternal, but a testing ground for the dead to fight their way through to the heavens to become honored ancestors. Is that true or not? Lastly, to John this site seems to be a place for learning and being slowly disabused or your misinformation through debate and information, so a very fond fuck you very much.

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    1. Those who hide behind anonymous profiles on the internet arent valued enough for me to take insults from.

      I will highlight from your post words that made your post offensive, and not someone just looking for knowledge.

      seems disingenuous
      No offense Ann, but are these unpleasant versions accurate?
      No offense to Ann’s knowledge

      You continued your post with a bunch of things you believed with no citation, no actual information, just pretty much things you just made up.

      If you want to talk about intelligent discourse, make sure you first bring some intelligence to the table.

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    2. I've never heard of Mictlan being any kind of "testing ground" - it's pretty much as final as you get. Where'd you dig that one up, if you don't mind my asking?

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    3. Also, no worries on the explanation, I'm a fan of quotes and neat ideas from ancient cultures. :)

      Which underworlds are the worst is in the end a subjective question anyway - I'm sure there's somebody out there going, "Eh, I'd rather do the place with the bees, at least it won't be boring."

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    4. Anon, JSR is whatever it wants to be, and if it happens to be a place of learning it's only because of John and Anne's hard work digging through books and sharing their knowledge - which they do for free for their community here; and yes, even anons.

      They are two of the most well-informed people in the Scion community, with the most comprehensive set of accessible quality knowledge on Scion to the public. Still, if you disagree with the "direction" this site has, or think that it is "disabusing misinformation", whatever that means, then maybe it isn't for you.

      I'm all for scholarly debate, but there's no reason for you to be rude about it.

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