Wednesday, March 26, 2014

Wielding the Wyrd

Question: Why do Magic and Prophecy boons penalize the user so harshly? I understand the flavor of "dont mess with fate"! But it seems unfair that other Purviews get to do incredibly awesome things and Fate users get punished in the form of fatigue or magic shenanigans (auto-botching rolls, etc.) for no reason.

Ouch, man. Years of giant paragraphs explaining our thought processes and justifications, and y'all still think we do things for no reason? We barely do anything for no reason anymore. We have to write a grant application to one another just to go to a movie.

It sounds like you may not be quite aware of the difference between Magic and Prophecy and other purviews. While they are similar in that they follow the same kinds of structures, they are completely different beasts, and not just for flavor reasons. Fate is the highest authority and most powerful force in Scion's universe; it is the be-all and end-all, the force that affects gods as strongly as mortals, that cannot be truly escaped except for a few shining moments by only the most arcanely poweful. Fate is literally the most important and dangerous thing that exists in the game of Scion, and in some way it controls, informs or influences pretty much everything that any Scion or god or Titan ever does. Some of that is mechanized in the game's systems for Fatebonds, associated powers and Virtues; and even beyond those, its influence is felt unconsciously in the stories that Storytellers and players alike tell, because it's one of those fundamental story ideas that many people, at least in western cultures, automatically weave into their tales even when they don't mean to.

What all of this means is that Fate is serious fucking business, no two ways about it, and that therefore the powers that involve messing directly with its inner workings are way more hazardous and significant than other purviews in many ways. Other purviews can't compete; Fire or Thunder or Death are dangerous and scary primordial forces, but Fate still controls all of them and how they manifest in various myths and legends, dictating how they play their parts. Tapping into the power of the sun is one thing, but tapping into the power that decides how the entire game universe runs is a different thing altogether.

Simply put, Magic and Prophecy have major drawbacks because they are more powerful than other purviews. They need those negatives just to balance them out and prevent them from being so overpowered that they just win the game automatically. Other purviews have powers that attack enemies, transport allies, knit flesh back together, all of which are awesome and powerful; but Magic and Prophecy have the power to make or break all those other purviews. Magic users can dictate whose rolls succeed and whose botch abominably, allow them to get insane results on their own powers or avoid the effects of others', completely rewrite the inner drives and passions of others and ignore their own, and even literally pretend things didn't happen when they don't like them. Prophecy users can provide insane bonuses to anything and everything they and their allies want to do, ignore fated events they don't like by totally avoiding them, create and enforce certain roles in the story on their bandmates, and literally take the power of the Storyteller to write the tale that all the players are currently starring in away and make it their own.

That's not just flavor. These two purviews directly and concretely affect everything in the story and give Scions who use them incredible power to steer the story, not only for themselves but for everyone else around them. The War purview may allow you to smite others with mighty attacks, but Magic decides whether or not those attacks actually strike their targets; the Justice purview may allow you to lay evildoers low with a look and deny enemies of your pantheon their powers and freedom, but Prophecy decides whether or not you have the energy to do so and even believe it's the right thing to do anymore.

So the penalties in Magic and Prophecy are there to make sure that those purviews aren't so ridiculously powerful that they trump what everyone else who doesn't have them is doing. Magic needs a backlash from Fate every once in a while to prevent those who use it from just straight-up ensuring that they and their bandmates just succeed on every roll forever and never have to pay attention to things like Virtues; Prophecy needs fatigue penalties to make sure that its users don't literally hijack the entire story from the Storyteller forever and automatically win. Essentially, those things are there to let Scions know that they can use those powers as much as they want, but eventually they will hit the point of no return. They still have a choice, but that choice has consequences.

Honestly, we prefer that in most cases. We do have some powers in both purviews that are simply restricted by preventing them from being used more than a certain number of times per game session or story, but while that definitely prevents them from being used so much that they break the game, it also takes the option to use them in a moment of great crisis or need away from the Scions. So for other powers, we still give people the option to keep abusing Fate. There's just a price, which is something that powers that affect destiny itself can never escape. There's always a price, and it is very possible to get so far into debt that you never return.

So basically, other purviews get to do things without as many penalties because they're A) not screwing around with Fate, and B) therefore way less powerful and less in need of checks and balances to rein them in. We're not penalizing the Magic and Prophecy people for their purviews so much as making sure they don't run roughshod over everybody else at the table, including the Storyteller.

23 comments:

  1. I don't think I am sold on the idea of Magic and Prophecy being any more powerful than any other purview. That's like saying Blue is the most powerful color in Magic: the Gathering because it has more effects that screw with the opponent.

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    1. To run with your MTG analogy...normal purviews are like playing standard. Fate purviews are like Legacy. Legacy just has more broken powerful stuff going on...a number of cards are banned for that reason, to limit that power. Imagine what handicap a legacy deck would have to take in order to be balanced against a standard deck.

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    2. But you can prove that Legacy is more powerful than Standard. You can't prove that Prophecy & Magic are more powerful than all the rest of the purviews.

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    3. That's what I was doing up above, though, friend. You can feel free to disagree with it, but we've spent years on it, and believe me, Magic run amok is massively overpowered.

      To extend the MtG analogy, playing Magic isn't just like playing blue versus other colors; it's more like having a deck full of Force of Will versus other players without.

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    4. Well, if you have spent years playtesting the brand new prophecy & magic, I suppose I can give you the benefit of the doubt. At the very least I can test them out in my own games and get back to you sometime in the distant future.

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    5. Blue is the best color. By far. It is a well known fact.

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    6. Dont be an asshole. Of course we hAvnt played with the new versions of things for years. But the old versions also penalized you and we have played with those for years. And made the new ones based on that,


      As a side note. Magic has a boon that literally says you win the scene. How is that not more powerful then other purviews?

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    7. Blue IS the best color, in reality. However in MtG, Green is far superior. If you disagree, I'll just have to unleash my Green Control deck upon thee.

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    8. MOGIS MOGIS MOGIS!!!! That is all....

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    9. Which boon is that John, Avoid a Fate?

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    10. Why are you calling me an asshole for assuming you've playtested the new purviews before publishing them?

      Animal has a boon that spits out creatures the same legend it took you years to attain. Death has a boon that temporarily invalidates most of your XP if you fail a stamina check. Moon has a boon that can reduce your permanent legend to 1 if you fail a stamina check. Justice has a boon that, if played appropriately, should rewrite your entire personality.

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    11. Because it was purposely sarcastic. And your word choice continues to be asshole-ish.
      Animal) yes, by legend 11 you can make giant creatures. Is there something at level 10 in magic that you feel is too punishing in comparison?
      Death) is very powerrful. You're also waiting til legend 11. See above comment
      Moon) Havnt looked at that in a long while. Its missing a key phrase, only works on humans. We have that in our home version. Otherwise the boon is silly and ridiculous.
      Justice) So does magic, but magic does it better. Justice also has some stupid old boons and most people feel is completely busted(in the doesnt work, not is overpowered way).

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    12. Anon, you said "if you've been playtesting the new Boons for years, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt." Since the new Boons were only recently rolled out, it's impossible that they play tested for years, though they are drawing from years of experience playing and seeing what works. Maybe you didn't intend to sound dismissive of them, but it sounds like you're saying that they don't know what they're doing

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    13. Seriously? Deus ex will, half the time, call forth something worse than whatever it is you're facing. Hell, remember that a Scion's extended family can include Titans

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    14. thanks for the explanation above griff. I didnt have the words.
      Extended family cannot be a titan if the titan would be hostile. LIke, every creature in existence only fits into one of the categories on the 1-10 scale. Like at 8, you definitly gets someone that is at least in good spirits towards. Because if they were neutral, theyd have to be 6 and if they were hostile they'd be 3. They cant be both 8 and 6 and 3.

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    15. It wasn't meant to be dismissive or sarcastic. I didn't mean it to sound that way. Anne seemed to say you have been playtesting for years, and I really was giving you guys the benefit of the doubt. Please don't assume the worst.

      Didn't deus ex have a clause that said no matter what you escape from, there will be something worse later?

      I do not think anything in Magic 10 is super powerful. Definitely not weak, but also not super powerful. And I absolutely think Death is very powerful. I think most of the purviews are very powerful. I think a few purviews lag behind, but most are right up there and just as powerful as magic and prophecy.

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    16. You just proved the point Anon!
      ''didn't deus ex have a clause that said no matter what you escape from, there will be something worse later?''
      Here's the thing. It won't always be something worse -depending on your roll- but the thing you summon will probably require something of you in return in the best cases or put you on its personal dislike list or something like that.
      But that's you falling back on a drawback to justify the boon's exsistence, which is exactely the point, that's why the drawback is there, because ''win the scene, no drawbacks ever'' would be waaaaay too strong.

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  2. I'm an eager user of the Magic purview in particular, and I absolutely love how, in times of crisis, you can just throw magic spells in every direction and find yourself knee-deep in shit because of your own magic spells backlashing. It's the same with the new prophecy purview I assume, but I haven't had the chance to try it out yet.

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    1. Deus ex Machina, aka The Cure Is Worse Than The Disease

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  3. The ultimate backlash for abusing Magic and Prophecy is, of course, Ragnarok

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