Okay, guys, you know what day it is? It's purview day! Hooray!
This one's going to be a little more complicated and a little less clean than the last one, so please be patient as we make our first public plunge into the wonderful world of elemental purviews. Today, we're going to release the new Sky purview, but we have a few caveats for you guys to be aware of first.
First of all, this is the long-awaited moment when we split Sky and Thunder off into two distinct purviews! Sky, which we're releasing today, is the purview of air, wind, breath and clouds, while the forthcoming Thunder will be about lightning, thunder, rain and storms. We're still brushing up some of the final touches on the Thunder purview, and it's not quite ready for you guys, so it'll probably still be a week or two; we could have held onto it until we were ready to release both at once, but we didn't want to go so long without putting out something new for everyone to play with. For those who are planning to be Thunder users instead of Sky, we're leaving the old Sky purview with its lightning boons up under the Thunder button for now. When new Thunder is released, it'll be replaced, but it gives you a stop-gap for now. (We promise, we'll get that one out as quickly as possible, because we know what a pain it is to have one and not the other.)
If your game would like to covert from the old hybrid Sky to the new Sky and Thunder, here's how we're handling the split for our characters: each player who has old Sky can choose whether they want to convert their boons to Sky or Thunder, and then get whichever boons they want that are the same level as the old ones they had (so if they had a level 1, 2 and 3 Sky boon in the old purview, they can choose a 1, 2 and 3 in Sky or a 1, 2 and 3 in Thunder). If they decide that they want both purviews, it might be easier to just give them an equivalent amount of XP to their old Sky boons, and tell them they can only spend it on Sky or Thunder boons. Either way, we want Scions who have the old Sky purview to get the opportunity to keep the kinds of powers they love using, but without giving them a bunch of extra powers for free that other people in the group don't get.
For Storytellers, if your Scions have positive or negative Fatebonds associated with old Sky, you'll need to convert those, too. If you happen to know what they got that Fatebond for - that is, they gained a Fatebond to it because people saw them lightning bolting a bunch of people, or they were given a penalty because they tried and failed to fly away from danger - then you can assign it appropriately to whichever purview governs the event that the Fatebond is referencing. If you aren't sure or there are too many Fatebonds involved, we suggest splitting them evenly - so if someone has four positive Fatebonds to Sky and there's a mix of reasons, just give them two Fatebonds to each of Sky and Thunder and call it a day.
Since the purviews are splitting, this is now the moment that various gods' associations change, as well! They have been changed on their individual pages and the quick-reference, but here's the quick list (including gods from the downloadable pantheons):
Gods with Sky: Amm, Enlil, Horus, Itzamna, Ix Chel, Izanagi, Marduk, Nezha, Njord, Nuwa, Pauahtun, Quetzalcoatl, Stribog, Svarozhich, Tane, Vayu, Zeus
Gods with Thunder: Baal, Chaac, Dushara, Hubal, Illapa, Indra, Ishtar, Marduk, Ninurta, Oya, Qos, Raiden, Rongo, Perun, Set, Shango, Shiva, Susanoo, Taranis, Thor, Tishtrya, Tlaloc, Tulungersak, Zeus
You'll notice that a couple of gods are on both lists, but most of them aren't. If a Scion's parent no longer has the purview they invested in associated, the Scion gets to keep the associated XP discount anyway, since we don't want to punish anyone because of our fiddling.
The second major issue is that you'll see a couple of boons (both very high-level) that are "under construction" still at the moment, which is because they affect other purviews that we haven't finished rewriting yet. We apologize for the fact that they're hard to use until then, but we'll update them as soon as possible. Both have an alternate boon at the same level, so you won't be prevented from getting a useful power as you go along, and of course Storytellers are always free to give you whatever mechanics they deem appropriate for the under-construction boons if they want to let you use them before we finish them.
Finally, as we've mentioned before, in our odyssey through all these purviews we are not only updating purviews but also discovering that there are a lot of general game mechanics that need brushing up. Today, we're hitting the first of these, which is movement speed. Instead of the old system with Move and Dash and that random +6 in the middle there, here's what we're doing instead: you have one top speed, which is equal to double your (Dexterity dots + Epic Dexterity successes) in yards per second. You can go slower than that speed at will, but it's your top speed at a flat-out sprint. If you want your DV while runnning, you can go no faster than half that speed. Contests of speed such as races are not comparisons of this calculation, but rather contests where the runners roll off their Dexterity + Athletics.
So, to use an example, Eztli's base speed is 112 yards per second (or about 230 mph/369 kph) at a dead run (10 Dex + 46 Dex successes, doubled). If she wants her DV, she can only run up to 56 yards per second (115 mph/184 kph). If she wants to race against Goze, they'll both roll their Dexterity + Athletics, and even though she has more Dexterity, he'll probably give her a run for her money against his buckets of Arete: Athletics.
And that helps simplify speed calculations and more easily apply speed-boosting powers, so hopefully everyone feels as good about it as we do. And lastly, you'll notice that there are now technically two boons in the game called Rainbow Bridge, which is silly. We recognize that, and will be changing the name of the Psychopomp power when we get there.
Enjoy new Sky, and as always, feel free to ask questions, call for clarification or bring up any issues you have in the comments below!
I'm very excited for this, and I'll be getting into this in a minute...but first I have a question...how come Shiva, who as Rudra is one of the great Storm Gods of the Vedas, doesn't have Thunder? Vishnu has Sun from his Vedic connotations, after all, and all things considered Shiva is probably more strongly associated with Storms than his colleague.
ReplyDeleteWell, now I know who sent in that question in my box. ;)
DeleteActually, I totally agree with you! I believe way back in the day when we first overhauled the Deva associations, we were hesitant about the Shiva/Rudra identification and decided to err on the side of caution. A little older and wiser now, though, I think you're totally right, Rudra is clearly Shiva's Vedic persona, and he ought to have Thunder associated. I'll see if John's willing to confirm. :)
I have no idea what you're...oh, fine. But, look at it this way...that's one question down from the questionado :)
DeleteYou know, the Associations for most of the Deva in Companion was fairly whack, but the point at which I basically wanted to punch my screen was when I saw Shiva's write-up. Not only did it outright state that he was just looking for an excuse to cheat on Parvati, it gave him Fire and Darkness associated instead of Sky and Death. I think that was the point when I said 'Fuck it'.
Yeah, we were really confused about that. I think maybe they just figured, "Fire and Darkness are destructive/"bad guy" purviews" and therefore gave them to Shiva, but... bad reasons are bad. That whole section was a roiling mess.
DeleteWhat are the Sky and Thunder gods from the downloadable pantheons?
ReplyDeleteGreat question, thank you for reminding me! I'll add them to the post above.
DeleteThis fuckin guy......
DeleteWell I'm going to trust Anne's judgment over my own. With good reason, since there were a few discrepancies.
DeleteThe only one I think you might want to fudge is Itzamna - I think you could run him as having both.
DeleteOkay, I'm done reading, and I have to say, amazing thematics aside, the sheer no. of new mechanics you've implemented is astounding.
ReplyDeleteWhen I saw Rainbow Mantle, I expected another 'look at pretty thing, regain willpower' thing. But this is beautiful! As is Flight's ability to use Moment's of Truth as currency. I LOVE the fact that something as basic as flying is now both permanent and does not necessarily permanently cut off your maximum willpower. I cannot stress how much I love it! Zephyr's ability to boost low level powers is something I hope is repeated in other Purviews. It is the perfect solution to making low level Boons still useful without essentially duplicating them at higher levels!
So, now onto queries:
1. Zephyr technically let's you use Warp Wind's advanced ability once a day for free anyway, since the Zephyr can use it and you can use it on two different things. Is this intentional?
2. Zeus still has only Sky in the QR.
3. Will you be updating Hero of Fate now that you have 24 Purviews? And if not, does the Ruler have Sky or Thunder?
4. This is kinda obvious, but just to be safe, both Sky and Thunder are part of the Heavenly Powers of Caan Cab, right?
5. Which Titan has what? Both on-site and pdf. Paroro-Whenua is going to get a bit shaken up I presume.
Overall, I adore it...the legacy of the Airbenders lives on it seems ;) (And just to be clear, I love that show).
Oh, and your colour scheme is simple and effective as usual, the blue sky and white clouds over it. You know, finding out the new colour combinations for each Purview has become a mini-delight for me :D
DeleteAlso, The Firmament is the coolest Sky Avatar name ever!
Oh, I don't about that, Samudra. The Firmanent is cool and all, but I was really hoping they'd name it the The Windy Thing or something.
Delete(Please tell me someone here gets that reference)
Oh boy now I really want a smell-based Justice boon
DeleteAnswers!
Delete1) I think I see what you're saying, give us a few minutes to bat this one around.
2) Fixed!
3) Yes, we will. We'll throw a little tiny update post to let you guys know when that's done.
4) Yes, I would say so. :)
5) We will likely end up with a model with one Titan of Sky and one of Storms, as two separate realms. Ehekatoyaatl will be rewritten as something that is, you know, good, and Paroro-Whenua will probably be the basic template for the final Storm realm.
Glad you like it. :)
Oya, Shango and Set all still have Sky in the QR, and poor Shiva has still had his Thunder stolen ;)
DeleteAnd you misunderstood me on the Titans issue: I meant, which version do the Avatars have...as in Nut is Sky, not Thunder, Summanus is Thunder, not Sky (I'm assuming), and so forth :) Where do the Titan Avatars stand after the split?
QR's all fixed! We had to go have a conference about Shiva first. But I'm happy to report that we agree and he now has his rightful Vedic vajra powers!
DeleteAh, each one, good point - I forgot about them. The only Titans on the site right now with either are Nut and Mixcoatl, and both of them should keep Sky rather than Thunder. Among the Titans of the downloadable PDFs, Boreas, El, Fujin, Narssuk, Shangdi and Sila have Sky, while Ccoa, Lir, Summanus and Varuna have Thunder and Kon and Tawhiri probably have both.
Thanks for the Titans!
DeleteAnd thank you so much for the Shiva decision...poor guy gets so much bad press for just doing his job.
As thanks, and since I know you totally love the Shiva-Parvati pairing as much as I do, allow me to present this video of Shiva and Parvati being ridiculous amounts of cute together: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v-P4yhOa8Xo
Disclaimer: Cheesy Bollywood Music. You have been warned ;)
Ha, I enjoyed it anyway!
DeleteI'm glad you liked it :D The actress playing Parvati is quite beautiful, and while the actor playing Shiva is rather well-built for an ascetic, I'm really not complaining ;)
DeleteBy the way, I'm sorry to sound like a broken record, harping on the same issue again and again, but I'm fairly certain there are a lot of people who'll update their Associateds directly from the list up there in the post and not check the comments...and, well, Shiva's still not on the list in the post, though he now proudly sports Thunder on both his write-up page and the QR.
Good point, got it covered!
DeleteNeat!
ReplyDeleteI remember vaguely a post with the reasoning for the old summoning boons like Summon Slyphs. Did you feel these were better represented by Birthrights, in the end?
Rainbow Mantle is pretty neat, though I was sad to see that Rainbow Mantle Armor wouldn't boost soak and Rainbow Mantle Shield wouldn't boost DV.
I'm guessing the latter would be too much, though, taken in conjunction with Air Armor, and in the case of the former, increased soak didn't feel resonant with the purview's themes?
As we were working they seemed to fit better as the thing we've been affectionately calling "sky buddy". We liked the idea of the summon, but wanted them to be more specific, and more about your personal power making them then summoning them from somewhere else. We also wanted the things they do to be more specific per purview and less seem like they all do the same thing across purviews. Also the old costs were cute....but bad.
DeleteCorrect on the mechanics of the Rainbow Mantle - soak is not really Sky's area, and with Air Armor DV would start getting out of control. Most Sky gods use their rainbow relics as weapons, though, so we wanted to make sure that option was represented!
DeleteAnd yeah, Zephyr's our replacement for the elemental-style boons. We do still like the idea of a little bit of the element personifying at your command, but this works better and has less of a generic D&D feel.
Hey so I didn't think I would like the Sky/Thunder split...but I do like what you've done with Sky alone. It's definitely very awesome for those of us who love the Element of Wind and Wind-flavored things.
ReplyDeleteMy only problem with it is that you have to be a Demigod to get Flight now. Do you know how long it takes our characters to get to Legend 3, knowing that at Legend 3 we would finally be rewarded with flying, only now you have to wait until you're a -Demigod-?
Sigh...
Glad to hear it. Demigod flight, was from the longest ago one of the powers in sky we thought fit least at hero. Of all the purviews, it was the one that most felt like, at legend 3 you got this amazing thing. And it was the most "magical" looking power. Also raising the boon level allowed us to raise the power level quite a bit and be more specific with its use which felt good.
DeleteBut I feel ya.
I NEVER let my players have flight as a 2 dot Boon. It seemed more "super-hero" than "Hero".
DeleteProbably has something to do with the first character who wanted it was a party-planner daughter of Dionysius who wanted it so "she wouldn't need a plane to fly from party to party." Even though she had bought an entourage as Followers.
We've actually had players who were like, "I want to buy more Sky, but I don't feel like I should have flying yet, I'm still practically a human."
DeleteWe never felt like it was very fair that the Sky folks got to zip around the skies while other people were only getting Bolster Fire or Resilience or Faunaphagia. There was a pretty clear power-level and coolness-level disparity there.
oh I feel ya too, believe me. I completely get why you moved it, and really like that you made it a bigger deal as well, I just felt I had to say 'aw man.'
DeleteQuick Maya note: Pauahtun isn't mentioned, but given his whole thing is holding up the Sky, his part of the split seems obvious...
ReplyDeleteThough why is Ix Chel, the rainbow goddess, under Thunder and not Sky, which you've shown is very rainbowtastic
Oh, thank you, excellent point.
DeleteUm... I think I was thinking of her flood/disaster connotations, but you're right, those fall under Water mostly anyway, and she had Sky largely because of rainbows. Reverting her back to Sky!
Makes sense (btw Pauahtun is still missing at the mo)
DeleteAnd hey, this means that now there's an even split of Purviews for Caan Cab, since Thunder is Celestial and Artistry is Earthly!
Boom, success!
DeleteJohn? Anne? I gotta admit, when I heard you guys were going to split the Sky Purview? I wasn't thrilled. I just didn't see how you could make TWO Purviews out of the concept of "weather control."
ReplyDeleteWell? This just shows how much I know. This Purview is AWESOME! All the Boons are interesting and useful and so very fitting for the theme at work.
Furthermore? I noticed already that the new Sky Purview looks like it will be a DEVASTATING combo with Thunder's Boons as well. Suddenly, Zeus' having both Purviews gives far more credence to his reputation as one of the biggest badasses in the Overworld.
I was going to complain about the whole "Flight being moved to Demigod" thing, but after reading the other comments, I can agree with your reasoning.
My only two questions right now?
1.) Wind Warp is cool and all, but I do kinda miss the power to use Wind Grapple. Is Wind Grapple going to appear in Thunder? Or is it just gone? I kinda miss being able to throw projectiles at my enemies.
2.) Also about Wind Warp? Would Multitasking allow you to manipulate multiple items without penalty? It's a cool effect, but it would be cooler if there were SOME option to move more than one thing at a time.
Once again, awesome job! Consider me converted!
Ha, glad to hear it! We worked pretty hard on making sure both of them had enough awesomeness to go around, and it's great to hear you're liking the first installment. :)
DeleteWind Grapple is gone now, alas - it was overpowered in its previous incarnation and not as mythically resonant as we wanted it to be. But better news about Wind Warp - it takes an action to do it, but if you have extra actions with Multi-Tasking, you can go bananas. If you've got five actions from MT, you can totally dedicate four of them to Wind Warp without taking penalties. (Of course, there is much clamoring for a nerf to Multi-Tasking, but it definitely works that way for the moment.)
You know, perhaps being able to attack with WInd Warp could be its Advanced Zephyr power? Cuz, like I said, its current advanced power is something Zephyr is doing anyway. That way you have to spend five more Legend to do it, so it seems balanced enough.
DeleteAfter brief powwow, John has clarified: the zephyr using Wind Warp for you normally just means that it's free, but it still requires you to use an action on it. So expending it to have two WW's active at the same time is in fact different.
DeleteWe really wanted to stay away from WW being offensive at all - cool telekinesis powers, yes, but actually attacking people, not so much. We've got offensive powers elsewhere in the purview that were balanced specifically to do that.
Oh! New question.
DeleteSky's Grace gives no mention of giving you immunity to damage from falling. Was that on purpose?
Yep, the boon no longer does that. It was an attempt by the original line to shoehorn an "immunity boon" into a place that didn't really need one, and both uncomfortably stepped on flying's toes and was weirdly mythically dissonant. So we scrapped it.
DeleteI see about WW.
DeleteSo I'm assuming Siddhi will get revamped after the rewrites are done? Since Sky's Grace is now pretty different and all the other Boons will be too.
Yes, definitely - a lot of the boons Siddhi uses will probably be changing. Since overhauling the APPs this extensively affects almost everything else in the game, we're tentatively planning to make sure we then go through all the PSPs afterward and finally the knacks, but it'll be a work in progress for a while.
DeleteIf only we could just stay home and work on it all day all the time, right?
Somebody's got to ask this...how is Shua handling the split? Both are obvious candidates for Shua, but the old Sky powers have some thundery stuff going on, and besides Thunder will need all new powers and oppositions for Purview lasers...and Sky's ability to hover for free is kinda less useful now that flying is free anyway.
ReplyDeleteBoth are nature purviews and thus definitely options for Shua, but since it was written for the RAW, we don't have a workup for it with the split. If someone wants to throw it in the question box, I can try to get something together for people in the future, but it'll probably be a little while.
DeleteI'm totally late to the party, we had a long-weekend festivity in Mexico and I'm just coming back from a trip to find this.
ReplyDeleteOn the plus side, pretty much all questions I had after reading it have been addressed, so I just wanted to hop in and say great job as usual! Can't wait for Thunder now...
We're hoping to get it out sooner rather than later. :)
DeleteHate to be the one to bug you, but any ETA on new Thunder? ST's making us do a character sheet audit, and I kinda need it for my "fast as lightning, runs on the winds" speedster son of Hermes.
ReplyDeleteSoon. Id say just buy thunder boons during creation and know they'll be thundery :) even though you dont know what they are yet
DeleteThanks for the swift response, and "sorry about the around the world punch" question a few month's back.
DeletePft, was a fine question ;)
DeleteThat was quick! Speaking of, here's "that flash wannabe" in case you're curious.
ReplyDeletehttps://god-touched.obsidianportal.com/characters/herman-harry-mercury