Question: If a Scion with no dots in Epic Appearance is horribly disfigured/scarred, can they buy positive Epic Appearance, or are they restricted to negative for being so ugly already? If they can get positive, does it reduce the ugliness of their scars/disfigurements until eventually the scars vanish, or would positive appearance simply make them extremely beautiful in spite of their scar/disfigurement without actually reducing the visual impact of the scars/disfigurements?
Any character can buy any kind of Epic Appearance they want! Go nuts! Do whatever you feel like, young heroes!
Appearance is a little bit of a tricky stat when it comes to the mortal realm; it really just measures how striking and noticeable you are, but whether people like that or don't is entirely dependent on the standards of beauty and physical averages of the culture you're hanging out with. As we know already from living in a world with a lot of different people with different tastes, wherever you go you'll encounter different standards; some cultures like large breasts while some like small, some cultures love ear- and lip-disks and others think they're disfiguring, some cultures prize certain colors in skin or hair or eyes that might be totally different from other cultures, and so on and so forth. There's no universal standard of beauty that everyone on earth recognizes, so it's likely that no matter what you look like, somebody out there thinks you're attractive, and likewise somebody is totally grossed out by you. Normal dots of Appearance make sure people visually (and aurally/scent-wise) notice you, but whether they think you look good or not is totally up to their personal preferences.
But Epic Appearance is a divine quality that transcends normal human preferences. People with positive Epic Appearance are attractive to everyone, not just people who would normally think they have a good look, and people with negative Epic Appearance freak everyone out, even if they would normally not have a problem with your specific physical attributes. If you have negative Epic Appearance and a bunch of traits that people around you would normally find very attractive - super clear skin, well-defined muscles, long eyelashes, whatever - they still don't want you anywhere near them, because you have a divine quality of scariness or ugliness that overrides their normal preferences. In essence, Epic Appearance takes the power to decide whether or not you're ugly or beautiful away from the viewer and gives it back to the Scion. You buy Epics, and you're whichever flavor of Epic Appearance you bought, end of story.
So yes, even if your character was horribly scarred as a mortal and most people considered her unsightly or disturbing or ugly, if she buys positive Epic Appearance, she is beautiful. How she is beautiful is up to you and your stunting prowess; the scars won't disappear unless you buy knacks that actually allow you to shapeshift and remove them, but maybe they now enhance the rest of her skin's flawlessness, or they form exotic and exciting patterns on her skin, or their texture makes people want to run their fingers across them, or they make her look mysterious and badass instead of injured or pitiful. Whatever way you think someone with scars might be attractive, that's what your character is now. And conversely, a Scion who looks like his culture's pinnacle of physical perfection who then purchases negative Epic Appearance is now horrifying regardless of his previous attractiveness, and his bulging muscles look grotesque or his full lips make onlookers think of scary things that want to eat them or the entire package of him now says violence and danger to people instead of power and sexiness.
You'll never lose any actual parts of your current anatomy or physical features when you buy Epic Appearance (unless you use a knack that actually changes those things); you still look like yourself and people who know you still recognize you. You're just now a divinely beautiful or horrible version of yourself, no matter who's interacting with you or what their normal standards might be.
Not the questioner but thank you for this. There are a no. of minor Hindu Goddesses, like Bagalamukhi and Matangi, who are supposed to be the epitome of physical perfection, but also terrifying enough to paralyse their opponents with horror. Conversely, Goddesses like Tara appear as terrifying as Kali, but are said to exude an aura of beauty and attraction. I've long wondered how these deities would function in Scion...now I know.
ReplyDeleteGlad to help. :) Appearance is tricky for a lot of players to wrap their heads around because they're so used to operating in the real world where it's totally subjective, so it's something we're used to talking about.
DeleteI'm pretty sure this is one of my questions (I've asked so many that I've lost track.)
ReplyDeleteYeah, so I never thought about Appearance working like Anne describes. It makes sense really. So negative Epic Appearance doesn't necessarily mean you're ugly, just that you exude a fearful and repulsive aura. Interesting.
This also makes Visage Great and Terrible make more sense than ever, come to think of it. So, I can be beautiful, but with negative Appearance one minute, then I can switch to positive in the next and I don't physically change. Just all of a sudden people find me attractive and desirable. Then if I switch back to negative, I'm scary once again.
Which is further proof that the Morrigan is one of the poster ladies for Visage Great and Terrible. Kali too, I would imagine, as I've heard her described as both beautiful and ugly at times. This is very cool stuff.
Right. We often use "ugly" as a shorthand for negative Epic Appearance, but it doesn't necessarily have to be ugliness in the sense of warts and boils. It just means that as much as someone who is divinely beautiful is someone you want to look at and touch and enjoy being around, someone who is divinely terrible is repulsive, frightening and/or revolting, even if they don't have features that would make you feel that way in a non-magical person.
DeleteYeah, the Morrigan and Kali are great examples of this knack in action, I think, and any other deity that oscillates between "awesome and we love him" and "oh god help get me away" depending on the situation. :)
This is actually one of my favourite things about Scion.
ReplyDeleteIn DnD/Pathfinder you kinda have to play a socially amazing character that looks amazing when you have high charisma.
In Scion there's more room for expansion on the concept, thanks to the appearance stat.
Also, charisma, my favourite kind, is the guy that is really bad at social interaction and acts really awkward, but everyone goes ''awww'' whenever he tried and are likely to go on his side because of the ''natural attraction'' he has, rather than hes actual awareness of how to be charismatic.
This is Russel, for SOME reason. People are weird.
DeletePeople are wierd ^^
DeleteBut hey, Russel is awesome :)
this is the best summary of epic appearance yet. It's cool that you can look like Kate Upton, then turn on negative appearance, still look like Kate Upton and have everyone flee in terror.
ReplyDeleteGaladriel in The Fellowship of the Ring does a pretty awesome Visage Great and Terrible when she's giving her monologue about a Queen not dark, but beautiful and terrible.
ReplyDeletePersonally I've never objected to characters with Visage Great and Terrible defining *minor* physical differences between their positive and negative Appearances. They're just *static* differences. The shapeshifting Knacks let them change on the fly, however they want and as many times as they want. If you want to have gorgeous silver antlers as Positive, but nasty, velvet-shedding antlers as Negative, that's cool. Or maybe as Positive you're handsome and charming, with a bright smile, but as Negative you're scary and your smile has too many sharp teeth. Just as long as the changes are variations on a theme, instead of something like growing wings and becoming covered in scales.
But, I also don't mind stuff like characters developing hair made out of fire when they reach Godhood. Demigods need Knacks for that, but I let Gods basically define their Appearance. They just need the Knacks to *change* it.
We don't mind minor fudging for stuntings' sake, but anything that would actually physically change the character's body usually needs a knack with us. :)
DeleteGaladriel, 100% agree, best example ever.
DeleteI think it's great with the teeth, but it's more like ''everyone feels like the teeth grew sharper'' but, they really didn't.
DeleteAlso, When i watched Lord of the Rings as a kid for the first time, Galadriel was the one that scared me the most. Sheelob? meh, Ringwraiths, very scary, but that motherly and temperate figure suddently going darkside? That was horrifying to little child me :P
That's what I've always thought the Morrigan was, beautiful and terrible. There are a number of myths, stories and fairy tails about cold, terrible beauties. In fact, in most myths every goddess except Hel is seen as a beauty, and is often describe as a "terrible beauty" when the wield their looks in anger, literally burning away their victims minds.
ReplyDeleteHel is also half-beautiful, and half a rotting corpse.
DeleteI just imagine every Goddess or God known for their beauty (Appearance associated) probably has Visage Great and Terrible and can do the Galadriel thing and be as Beautiful and Terrible (it's in the name!!) as the Dawn, and all shall love them and Despair.
I kinda doubt that, actually. There are a lot of Epic Negative Appearance deities that never have any stories of becoming attractive, and lots of Epic Positive Appearance deities that never have any stories of becoming repulsive.
DeleteAphrodite, for example, is unlikely to have any Negative App powers, not even Visage. If she needs to scare people off, she can use Charisma or Manipulation... but she never just becomes repellant physically. Izanami isn't ever anything but hideous after she gets kicked into the Underworld.
Well, the morrigan is more like Terrible and Ugly and sometimes beautiful, when she wants to be.
DeleteBut with her putting up image for our typical ''medieval witch'' i would say she is probably very ugly in her usual form.
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