Question: I'd like to know - what are the so called "Tresures of Erin/Ireland", and how could they be adapted to Scion?
The Four Treasures of Ireland, usually better known as the Four Treasures of the Tuatha de Danann, are some of the most important magical items in Irish mythology. They are the great relics of the gods: the spear of Lugh, the sword of Nuada, the cauldron of the Dagda and the stone of rulership that passes from king to king.
The spear of Lugh (or Sleg Luin) is a magical spear that grants its wielder the ability never to be defeated in battle. Lugh used it to kill his grandfather, the Fomorian Balor, by hurling it through his evil eye and then going on to defeat his armies and restore control of Ireland to the Tuatha de Danann. The sword of Nuada (Claimh Solais, meaning "sword of light") is said to burn with a bright, glowing light, and once it is drawn from its scabbard, no one can escape it if its wielder does not choose to let them go. It was with this sword that Nuada conquered Ireland for the Tuatha when they first arrived, and defeated the forces of the fearsome Fir Bolg. The cauldron of the Dagda (Undry) is a great enchanted vessel that pours forth food and drink in so much bounty that no one who ever eats from it can still be hungry, and is one of the Dagda's many food-creating relics (he also has plants that continually bear fruits and pigs that renew themselves after being roasted and eaten); it may or may not be connected to other magical cauldrons in Irish myth, including the one Goibnhiu uses to brew the mead of immortality, but is definitely a symbol of fertility and plenty either way. And, finally, the stone of rulership (or Lia Fail) is a magical stone that the Tuatha brought from their home to Ireland in time gone by, and whenever the feet of the rightful king of Ireland stand upon it, it sings or cries out from joy to inform the land that its ruler has arrived. It was used to crown all the mythical kings of Ireland, and since it refuses to sing for unfit or illegitimate rulers is also an important object for determining the true right to rule the island. (And if that sounds familiar, it might be because a certain legend of a sword in a stone might very well have some of its roots in the old legend of Lia Fail!)
As for adapting the Four Treasures to Scion, you really barely need to do anything to "adapt" them at all. They're clearly relics owned by the Tuatha de Danann, and as such may appear being used by those gods or even granted to sufficiently high-level Scions, either to own or to use for a short time as part of an adventure. All four of them are actually statted in Scion: Companion on page 30, but as usual we would recommend ignoring that except as a starting point; these are clearly divine, star-level relics owned by gods, not three- to five-dot relics that beginning Scions should be starting with, and we would save them for important plot moments or the use of the Tuatha alone unless you have a really good reason otherwise.
You may also be able to do some neat stuff with the legends surrounding the relics; for example, Lia Fail is supposedly still standing in Ireland on the Hill of Tara, but it was damaged by Cu Chulainn long ago and has never sung again, so you might want to spin a plot having to do with repairing it (or perhaps it isn't broken at all, but there has just been no worthy king in Ireland since Cu Chulainn, hmm?). Manannan mac Lir, god of sorcery who acts as Lugh's foster-father and is one of the senior-ranking Tuatha, serves in Irish mythology as the owner or caretaker of most famous relics, so Scions with a connection to him might be able to borrow some of the Treasures - Manannan does in fact lend his relics out, something that few gods do but that he has at least done repeatedly for Lugh - or go to him for advice on how to find or handle them if he does not currently possess them.
The Four Treasures are a great place to start with crazy awesome high-level Irish relics, but they're just the tip of the iceberg; Irish mythology is lousy with magic items and super relics used by both gods and mortals. Scions of the Tuatha might also encounter the eight relics that Lugh demanded the sons of Tuireann recover from faraway lands and bring back to Ireland or other single relics such as the famous harp of the Dagda, sword of Manannan mac Lir, silver hand of Nuada, fearsome spear of Cu Chulainn, and so on and so forth.
Showing posts with label the Dagda. Show all posts
Showing posts with label the Dagda. Show all posts
Monday, November 11, 2013
Thursday, June 6, 2013
Penis Party
Question: What's with the Dagda dragging his dick across the ground?
Heh. Oh, Dagda, you crazy dude.
The image is most strongly found in the second Cath Maige Tuireadh, when the Dagda is sent by the rest of the Tuatha to go try to be diplomatic and buy time among the Fomorians. Because the Dagda is not exactly what you would call the most awesome politician, it doesn't go awesomely, although he does manage to keep everyone distracted with his ridiculousness for quite a while. Knowing his penchant for unappetizing Irish food, they make him a massive cauldron of porridge and demand that he eat it all in one go, which he does because Tuatha, and he promptly passes out from massive overeating. He then has to drag himself home with his belly as large as the cauldron, his clothes too small to cover his ass and his giant penis hanging down and waggling around as he trudges off beneath a hail of Fomorian insults. It's not his finest hour.
However, mere boyish Fomorian pranks are not all that is going on here. The Dagda is the major fertility figure of Ireland, and fertility gods are notorious for having gigantic junk; it's an easy shorthand symbol to let you know that their powers of penis (and thus their powers over all kinds of fertility, including that of the land) are prodigious, often seen in other fertility gods like Freyr, Oko, Priapus and Min. (Guys, those pictures are not safe for work. Because of the penis.)
In fact, the CMT up there is enjoying some good old-fashioned punning, which is one of Irish myth's favorite things to do. In the same passage where it describes the Dagda's sorry state, it explains that he's dragging his club behind him and leaving a massive furrow in the ground; however, the word most often used to describe the Dagda's club, lorg, is a double entendre that can mean both "club" and "penis". So yeah, maybe he's dragging his giant relic club around leaving furrows in the ground that divide the provinces of Ireland... or maybe he's leaving giant dick-ditches everywhere. Irish mythology thinks Irish mythology is hilarious.
So, really, the dick is enormous because the Dagda's job is to be the enormous dick of nature, or something. And it's enormous so it drags along the ground, because no one had invented dance belts in ancient Ireland. And that's what's up.
Heh. Oh, Dagda, you crazy dude.
The image is most strongly found in the second Cath Maige Tuireadh, when the Dagda is sent by the rest of the Tuatha to go try to be diplomatic and buy time among the Fomorians. Because the Dagda is not exactly what you would call the most awesome politician, it doesn't go awesomely, although he does manage to keep everyone distracted with his ridiculousness for quite a while. Knowing his penchant for unappetizing Irish food, they make him a massive cauldron of porridge and demand that he eat it all in one go, which he does because Tuatha, and he promptly passes out from massive overeating. He then has to drag himself home with his belly as large as the cauldron, his clothes too small to cover his ass and his giant penis hanging down and waggling around as he trudges off beneath a hail of Fomorian insults. It's not his finest hour.
However, mere boyish Fomorian pranks are not all that is going on here. The Dagda is the major fertility figure of Ireland, and fertility gods are notorious for having gigantic junk; it's an easy shorthand symbol to let you know that their powers of penis (and thus their powers over all kinds of fertility, including that of the land) are prodigious, often seen in other fertility gods like Freyr, Oko, Priapus and Min. (Guys, those pictures are not safe for work. Because of the penis.)
In fact, the CMT up there is enjoying some good old-fashioned punning, which is one of Irish myth's favorite things to do. In the same passage where it describes the Dagda's sorry state, it explains that he's dragging his club behind him and leaving a massive furrow in the ground; however, the word most often used to describe the Dagda's club, lorg, is a double entendre that can mean both "club" and "penis". So yeah, maybe he's dragging his giant relic club around leaving furrows in the ground that divide the provinces of Ireland... or maybe he's leaving giant dick-ditches everywhere. Irish mythology thinks Irish mythology is hilarious.
So, really, the dick is enormous because the Dagda's job is to be the enormous dick of nature, or something. And it's enormous so it drags along the ground, because no one had invented dance belts in ancient Ireland. And that's what's up.
Thursday, March 21, 2013
Bres Votes Himself
Question: Who is the current king of the Tuatha?
Well, that depends on your game's decisions about what, exactly, is going on with those psychotic Celtic warmachines.
In the absolute technicality of Irish mythology, nobody's king of the Tuatha de Danann; they all died at one point or another, and in the strictest interpretation of the stories there's nobody left. Of course, that would make it hard to have any Tuatha to do anything with in Scion, so we'll have to ignore that little detail (as we so often do. Tuatha, why you so crazy?).
If we presume that all the Tuatha on the playable roster are as alive and active as one another, then we have a veritable menu to choose from. No fewer than three of the Tuatha have served as High King in the past.
Nuada Airgetlam was the first king of the Tuatha (well, during the time that their myths are active, anyway). Thanks to his incredible courage, physical perfection and prowess in battle he was among the most beloved of his pantheon, and he led his people to victory over the Fir Bolg and secured Ireland to become their homeland. He has served as High King twice; he lost the office when his hand was cut off in battle because it is required that all kings of the Tuatha be physically perfect, and once his hand was restored he took up ruling the pantheon again until the war against the Fomorians caused him to pass control over to a more capable warrior general.
The Dagda, the jolly old father god of many of the lesser Tuatha and renowned warrior and reveler, was also High King of the Tuatha for a short period of time. It's unclear exactly when his reign was - we know he was king while Aengus was seeking his wife Caer Ibormeith, but it's hard to know when exactly that tale falls on the continuum of Irish myth. The Dagda's sometimes considered the king of the Aes Sidhe as well, suggesting this is perhaps a very late development from the time that the Tuatha depart to go underhill and become the fairy folk.
Lugh, finally, is the wartime king of the Tuatha; though he was never in any official line of succession, his skills as a commander on the field of battle caused Nuada to hand the reins over to him during the war against the Fomorians. Since basically everybody else, including the other two High Kings, died during said war, he remained the de facto king until his own death some time later.
Technically, Lugh was the High King last, so depending on what you rule happened with the Tuatha, he might still be in power. Then again, he was granted that power by Nuada specifically for purposes of the war against the Fomorians, so once that ended it might have reverted back to the Silver Hand. But then again, the Fomorians are loose again now with the release of the Titans, so it's possible Nuada could have handed it right back for the same reasons. And if you decide that the Dagda was High King last, going off the fairy theory, then you could also say he might still be in power. A lot depends on what you decide the "deaths" of the various kings meant, how they avoided true death within Scion's setting and what political motivations might be at play between them.
Personally, we like to run Nuada as the High King; he was the original HK, after all, before it was cool. He's the archetypal perfect king, representing justice, order, beauty and perfection, and the fact that the Tuatha brought him back into power once suggests to us that they probably love him enough to do it again. He's the leader of the Tuatha for us (well... at least he was before Woody ruined everything. Now Manannan mac Lir's in charge. Shit got weird).
But there are other options if you don't want to keep Nuada at the helm, most notably Lugh as a possible wartime king, either on his own or under Nuada's aegis. Every Storyteller will probably want to make a different call based on the politics and feel they want for their individual games.
Well, that depends on your game's decisions about what, exactly, is going on with those psychotic Celtic warmachines.
In the absolute technicality of Irish mythology, nobody's king of the Tuatha de Danann; they all died at one point or another, and in the strictest interpretation of the stories there's nobody left. Of course, that would make it hard to have any Tuatha to do anything with in Scion, so we'll have to ignore that little detail (as we so often do. Tuatha, why you so crazy?).
If we presume that all the Tuatha on the playable roster are as alive and active as one another, then we have a veritable menu to choose from. No fewer than three of the Tuatha have served as High King in the past.
Nuada Airgetlam was the first king of the Tuatha (well, during the time that their myths are active, anyway). Thanks to his incredible courage, physical perfection and prowess in battle he was among the most beloved of his pantheon, and he led his people to victory over the Fir Bolg and secured Ireland to become their homeland. He has served as High King twice; he lost the office when his hand was cut off in battle because it is required that all kings of the Tuatha be physically perfect, and once his hand was restored he took up ruling the pantheon again until the war against the Fomorians caused him to pass control over to a more capable warrior general.
The Dagda, the jolly old father god of many of the lesser Tuatha and renowned warrior and reveler, was also High King of the Tuatha for a short period of time. It's unclear exactly when his reign was - we know he was king while Aengus was seeking his wife Caer Ibormeith, but it's hard to know when exactly that tale falls on the continuum of Irish myth. The Dagda's sometimes considered the king of the Aes Sidhe as well, suggesting this is perhaps a very late development from the time that the Tuatha depart to go underhill and become the fairy folk.
Lugh, finally, is the wartime king of the Tuatha; though he was never in any official line of succession, his skills as a commander on the field of battle caused Nuada to hand the reins over to him during the war against the Fomorians. Since basically everybody else, including the other two High Kings, died during said war, he remained the de facto king until his own death some time later.
Technically, Lugh was the High King last, so depending on what you rule happened with the Tuatha, he might still be in power. Then again, he was granted that power by Nuada specifically for purposes of the war against the Fomorians, so once that ended it might have reverted back to the Silver Hand. But then again, the Fomorians are loose again now with the release of the Titans, so it's possible Nuada could have handed it right back for the same reasons. And if you decide that the Dagda was High King last, going off the fairy theory, then you could also say he might still be in power. A lot depends on what you decide the "deaths" of the various kings meant, how they avoided true death within Scion's setting and what political motivations might be at play between them.
Personally, we like to run Nuada as the High King; he was the original HK, after all, before it was cool. He's the archetypal perfect king, representing justice, order, beauty and perfection, and the fact that the Tuatha brought him back into power once suggests to us that they probably love him enough to do it again. He's the leader of the Tuatha for us (well... at least he was before Woody ruined everything. Now Manannan mac Lir's in charge. Shit got weird).
But there are other options if you don't want to keep Nuada at the helm, most notably Lugh as a possible wartime king, either on his own or under Nuada's aegis. Every Storyteller will probably want to make a different call based on the politics and feel they want for their individual games.
Wednesday, November 28, 2012
Hog Wild
Question: Why did you ditch Guardian and Animal on the Dagda for Sun and War? Just because he held the sun in place for nine months shouldn't give him power over the purview!
I seriously promise you that we are not trying to be mean to you, person asking this question, but we both laughed out loud when we opened it. Something about the way it's phrased seriously tickled us.
It's a legitimate question, though, so let's ignore our outbursts of glee and answer it! As for removing the first two purviews, those were pretty easy ones.
Animal (Pig) was a completely ridiculous association for the Dagda to have; the only reason it was there at all is the fact that the Dagda famously possesses two pigs, one of which is always cooking while the other is always ready to eat. But these pigs are not doing anything but being ready-made pork; they're examples of the Dagda's association with food, prosperity and plenty, not suggestions that he's some sort of god of pigs, which he obviously is not. He never speaks to pigs, calls on pigs, turns into a pig, or in any way uses pigs for anything except eating, which is frankly not an exceptional thing to be doing with pigs. The magical pigs themselves are very fancy, but they're clearly a Birthright he possesses, not evidence of his link to all swine.
Guardian was less ridiculous, but it also didn't really have any evidence to support it. The Dagda doesn't do much in the way of guarding; he's great at busting some heads on the battlefield, but he isn't the patron or protector of any place, the defender who saves others from danger, the figurehead who represents a guardian of his people or otherwise demonstrating any embodiment of the Guardian purview that we could see. Sure, people are being protected as a side effect of his awesomeness at killing enemies, but you could say that about the Morrigan, too, and she definitely doesn't have the Guardian purview in any dimension. It's Nuada who functions as the protector of his people and the benevolent ruler who sees that they're safe; the Dagda, while awesome in his own way, doesn't do any of that. He has no more need of the Guardian purview than anyone else.
Which brings us around to things he does do, and War is one of those things. There are few gods and fewer enemies who can match the Dagda on the field of battle, where it took Cethlenn herself to defeat him (and even she had to do it on a sort of time-delayed basis); and while just being very badass is not usually enough to make us think a god has the War purview, the Dagda is also strongly associated with the leading of armies (commanded by his magical harp) and the formulation of tactics (which he is even ready to bang the Morrigan to get hold of, because he is serious about this stuff). The Dagda is a leader and a frontline soldier when it comes to the famous pitched battles of the Tuatha, so War seemed a natural fit for him.
And, finally, Sun, which is where John and I started giggling. Again, we're not meaning to pick on you, but - seriously, if a guy holding the sun in place for nine freaking months isn't an example of him having the Sun purview, what the hell is? That's classic power over the sun, very literally changing the span of days and the natural order of the heavens with his own power; it's not even something that he could have been doing with a little Sun, because that right there is some stuff you need The Glory to pull off. He's not one of the charioteering kinds of sun-gods, true, but they're not the only kind of sun-god out there. We can't think of too many better examples of someone having ultimate power over the sun than a guy who refused to let it set for nine straight months until he felt like it. That's mightily epic use of Sun.
So there's our reasoning; the Dagda has nothing to do with pigs and doesn't really bother with guarding much, but he's a badass war commander and is capable of making the sun his bitch for indefinite periods of time.
I seriously promise you that we are not trying to be mean to you, person asking this question, but we both laughed out loud when we opened it. Something about the way it's phrased seriously tickled us.
It's a legitimate question, though, so let's ignore our outbursts of glee and answer it! As for removing the first two purviews, those were pretty easy ones.
Animal (Pig) was a completely ridiculous association for the Dagda to have; the only reason it was there at all is the fact that the Dagda famously possesses two pigs, one of which is always cooking while the other is always ready to eat. But these pigs are not doing anything but being ready-made pork; they're examples of the Dagda's association with food, prosperity and plenty, not suggestions that he's some sort of god of pigs, which he obviously is not. He never speaks to pigs, calls on pigs, turns into a pig, or in any way uses pigs for anything except eating, which is frankly not an exceptional thing to be doing with pigs. The magical pigs themselves are very fancy, but they're clearly a Birthright he possesses, not evidence of his link to all swine.
Guardian was less ridiculous, but it also didn't really have any evidence to support it. The Dagda doesn't do much in the way of guarding; he's great at busting some heads on the battlefield, but he isn't the patron or protector of any place, the defender who saves others from danger, the figurehead who represents a guardian of his people or otherwise demonstrating any embodiment of the Guardian purview that we could see. Sure, people are being protected as a side effect of his awesomeness at killing enemies, but you could say that about the Morrigan, too, and she definitely doesn't have the Guardian purview in any dimension. It's Nuada who functions as the protector of his people and the benevolent ruler who sees that they're safe; the Dagda, while awesome in his own way, doesn't do any of that. He has no more need of the Guardian purview than anyone else.
Which brings us around to things he does do, and War is one of those things. There are few gods and fewer enemies who can match the Dagda on the field of battle, where it took Cethlenn herself to defeat him (and even she had to do it on a sort of time-delayed basis); and while just being very badass is not usually enough to make us think a god has the War purview, the Dagda is also strongly associated with the leading of armies (commanded by his magical harp) and the formulation of tactics (which he is even ready to bang the Morrigan to get hold of, because he is serious about this stuff). The Dagda is a leader and a frontline soldier when it comes to the famous pitched battles of the Tuatha, so War seemed a natural fit for him.
And, finally, Sun, which is where John and I started giggling. Again, we're not meaning to pick on you, but - seriously, if a guy holding the sun in place for nine freaking months isn't an example of him having the Sun purview, what the hell is? That's classic power over the sun, very literally changing the span of days and the natural order of the heavens with his own power; it's not even something that he could have been doing with a little Sun, because that right there is some stuff you need The Glory to pull off. He's not one of the charioteering kinds of sun-gods, true, but they're not the only kind of sun-god out there. We can't think of too many better examples of someone having ultimate power over the sun than a guy who refused to let it set for nine straight months until he felt like it. That's mightily epic use of Sun.
So there's our reasoning; the Dagda has nothing to do with pigs and doesn't really bother with guarding much, but he's a badass war commander and is capable of making the sun his bitch for indefinite periods of time.
Tuesday, November 20, 2012
Wise Old Pig
Question: Reading the write-up you've made on the Tuatha De Dannan, I've noticed that you associated the Dagda with Epic Intelligence. Although I skimmed through some myths about him, I am still not sure about why you chose to do so. Could you please explain the reasoning behind this association?
Absolutely! We've had this question asked before in a few different places, actually, and we never mind talking about reasoning.
Giving the Dagda Epic Intelligence was actually a decision that we struggled with for a long time when working on the Tuatha de Danann. While he certainly has a good amount of pragmatic good sense in myths, he also doesn't really appear to be wildly more intelligent than everyone else in any story, so initially we decided to completely leave that idea out. But source after source and book after book insisted that he was the patron of wisdom and thought - Green, Fleming, Sjoestedt, Monaghan and so forth, they were all big fans of the Dagda and his mighty wisdom. We didn't have a story basis for this unless you want to consider his good sense in not pissing off the Morrigan or conquering dudes with his harp to be examples of high Intelligence, but the scholars seemed arrayed against us.
From what we've gathered, the Dagda's association with wisdom is a quintessentially Irish one; it's not that he's more academically inclined or book-learned than anyone else (obviously), nor that he possesses that much more thinking power, but that he's the keeper of otherworldly and unfathomable knowledge, the sorts of things that mortals can't know and even other gods often don't. He's presented as a god of the wisdom of the unseen rather than the wisdom of the smartypantses.
So we were left trying to figure out how to express that in Scion terms. We considered just associating him with really high Occult, but that didn't seem to quite cover how pervasive the idea appeared to be in all our sources; we also considered giving him Mystery, but with Ogma right there being super Mystery-centric, he didn't seem to match up there, either. So in the end, after much debate, we decided to give him Epic Intelligence rather than leave this idea out.
We've been talking about it again lately, though, and the more we do, the more I start leaning back toward Mystery, or even maybe saying, "no deal, scholars, show us some sourcing!" despite how many of them are repeating the idea. The Dagda is certainly determined to be something of a square peg - what do you guys think?
Absolutely! We've had this question asked before in a few different places, actually, and we never mind talking about reasoning.
Giving the Dagda Epic Intelligence was actually a decision that we struggled with for a long time when working on the Tuatha de Danann. While he certainly has a good amount of pragmatic good sense in myths, he also doesn't really appear to be wildly more intelligent than everyone else in any story, so initially we decided to completely leave that idea out. But source after source and book after book insisted that he was the patron of wisdom and thought - Green, Fleming, Sjoestedt, Monaghan and so forth, they were all big fans of the Dagda and his mighty wisdom. We didn't have a story basis for this unless you want to consider his good sense in not pissing off the Morrigan or conquering dudes with his harp to be examples of high Intelligence, but the scholars seemed arrayed against us.
From what we've gathered, the Dagda's association with wisdom is a quintessentially Irish one; it's not that he's more academically inclined or book-learned than anyone else (obviously), nor that he possesses that much more thinking power, but that he's the keeper of otherworldly and unfathomable knowledge, the sorts of things that mortals can't know and even other gods often don't. He's presented as a god of the wisdom of the unseen rather than the wisdom of the smartypantses.
So we were left trying to figure out how to express that in Scion terms. We considered just associating him with really high Occult, but that didn't seem to quite cover how pervasive the idea appeared to be in all our sources; we also considered giving him Mystery, but with Ogma right there being super Mystery-centric, he didn't seem to match up there, either. So in the end, after much debate, we decided to give him Epic Intelligence rather than leave this idea out.
We've been talking about it again lately, though, and the more we do, the more I start leaning back toward Mystery, or even maybe saying, "no deal, scholars, show us some sourcing!" despite how many of them are repeating the idea. The Dagda is certainly determined to be something of a square peg - what do you guys think?
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