I know you guys literally just proclaimed your first foray into gritty world of pen and paper RPG's and of course you're probably still pretty hush-hush about the this new setting your crafting but I just wanted to know a few of setting/fluff differences your game has with 1st edition Scion.
I see that you already moved this question over to the new forums, but in case anyone else is looking at it: that's where to go for questions about the new game!
I don't know how to feel about this. To be honest, over the past three years, I haven't really played much Scion. Schedules have been nuts, friendships have fallen apart, new jobs, lost jobs, new jobs again...but I have read JSR every day. Even if I never had anything to say, a portion of my time was spent on this site. Sitting at work pushing papers, my imagination would be captured by visions of sons and daughters of Gods and Goddesses punching out Minotaurs and flying across galaxies, because of Anne's blogs and fiction. Hours with friends were spent discussing John's rules and massive imagination. Terms were coined like "Annetheon" for the pdf pantheons. Aurora Dahl to me was like Frodo Baggins or Hermione Granger for others - an amazing and favorite fictional hero. I was never attached to Scion...I was attached to JSR.
Players have asked me, "How do you know these people, John and Anne?" And I've said, "uh, well, they're like 2/3 my heroes, and 1/3 internet friends." And that's how I'll always think of you guys. I'll be sad to say goodbye to the Theoi and Deva, Ourea and Tamoanchan, Psychopomp and Prophecy and Fertility. Three years of amazing stories and visions of legendary deeds. It's hard to think about.
But you two have an AMAZING gift, a gift you have selflessly given to a community for absolutely free, for YEARS. It is time you get recognized for it. And, most importantly, it's gonna be awesome. Really awesome. This is a game three years in the making.
I think we have a lot of the same feelings that you do. :)
While it will be a whole new game and a whole new world, I suspect you'll see some familiar faces in fiction and game. Our players will be coming with us and while they'll be playing a new game, they'll be fielding the same characters that they've spent so much love and care on.
At this point I can absolutely understand and applaud your decision. When you have made as many changes as you two have to this game (which, idea-wise, I love, rules-wise not so much), it only makes sense to stop, reconsider and decide whether that amount of work would be better spent on your own game. (For which you can, ya know, make money maybe?)
I once was a partner in a start-up gaming company under the OGL. It's NOT EASY. So I applaud you again for taking this on. One of my partners once said, "You have to do this because you love it and believe in it. Not for the money. It's more like throwing your money in the fireplace [where there is a fire there] than a normal business." However, that doesn't need to be the case. You've got a lot built up to move forward with something new and different without having to create it all from the ground up.
Having said all that, is there a chance that you might be willing to part with some of the already partially done stuff and let others potentially finish it up? I've been writing about the Hittites, under my own name and, for a longer time as Anonymous. If there's a chance that you might be willing to pass on the 22% for me/others/some combo of the two to finish up.... well, that would be great.
Once again, congrats. I'll go look at the new site now...
I think that sounds like a great idea. I know we have some Hittite material that, while not fully fleshed out, some of you might still find useful, and at least a little material on one of the Titanrealms we were working on.
We'll see what we can dig up to post in the next few weeks. :)
I second this! I would love to see if you had any general ideas, unfinished/unused boons or notes for the rest of the Boons / Knacks / Avatars project, something that maybe the community can add to and maybe finish? A man can dream!
The Titanrealm stuff would be awesome to see as well!
In that same vein, would you be willing to ad a sort of "legacy" JSR board on your new forums for folks that will continue to use your material?
I understand if you want to move on completely from all of this to get on with the new stuff, but it would be great for those of us who will keep playing with these rules for a while :).
I was actually going to ask a similar question. I was thinking of asking it on the Journey forums but I think it's best to be asked here. From what I've seen, you're continuing Better Next Time/Skeins of Fate as a Scion game, because they're Legend 11 and it's been five years damnit they need to see Legend 12. If that's the case, you will probably have to work out Avatars/Ultimates and surely there will be some more (less extensive) House Ruling...
Care to share that with us, if/when that may be? (let's be honest here, I'm not going to be too attached to Scion once Hero's Journey is released, but it would definitely be cool to be In The Loop)
While we have loved Scion a long time, we probably won't be doing a legacy section for it on HJ. But y'all have all the HRs we've done over the yars, and Onyx Path has their own Scion forums, so I think you won't be hurting for somewhere to share ideas and talk about stuff!
Unfortunately no - Scion doesn't belong to us, so we could get in big legal trouble by charging money to write things for it. However, I see that Ajax above asked if we would release the parts of things we already have done for you guys, and I don't see why not!
I am happy to hear that! I want to know how things go for those characters. It's strange, but the stories you all are telling are very engaging to a third party-observer.
In that case I'll save my donation until the Kickstarter. I want my free book, Hero's Journey official toothbrush, and good seats to John's Show in NC.
Well, all the best wishes from here! I'm definitely gonna be trying your new system, as i have enjoyed your rules and posts a lot in the past! I... I might just need to get a drink of water, that's twice in my week big parts of my life have been shaken up...
Oh man. This sucks. I just discovered you guys a few months ago and now y'all are shutting down. Ah well ç'est la vie. I wish you many blessings in your new enterprise; May fleet footed Hermes Enagonius grant you wit and cunning in all your business ventures henceforth.
Now I just need to hunt down griffin guy since I just detectivated that he's an NYC metro area resident like me.
Much as I'm bummed to lose JSR, I don't play Scion, more of a mythology-based homebrew, so it's the Myth stuff I love and use. I'm intrigued by prospects of a new system, and expect it will be as good as what you've done here. See you on the new site (and I'll watch for Kickstarter news...)!
If anybody's got a shot to make this sort of project work, it's the two of you.
I salute you for your years of peerless contributions, thank you for the many hours of gaming fun, and trust you to do something badass with all the irons you've got in the fire that we don't even know about yet.
I'm not going to lie, I'm going to be sad to see this site close down. I learned a *lot* about mythology here. I was looking forward to things like the magic homing bees over in the Hitties and maybe, one day, a Kami rewrite or the Australian pantheon.
But, you guys are moving on to your own project. Having seen your work here I know it'll be good, so I'm on board for the new game. Thanks once again for all the hard work you've put into this, and all the best with the new project. :)
It looks like we may release the details on the Hittites we already have, so you won't get the homing bees but you will get at least a little Turkish goodness. :)
There will still be posts and vlogs here, just less frequently than there used to be. We'll do at least another vlog or two to try to answer some lingering questionado stuff.
I am happy for you guys, and wish you the best on this. But at the same time, I'm a little disappointed that y'all won't be at least finishing the Boons.
I think I'll have to get my group of gamers and game-writers together and continue the work ourselves. I can kinda see where you were going with the Elementals, was planning on rewriting Mystery myself (the "AMA" format was too free-form for my tastes) and already have Justice half-rewritten anyway.
Fair you well on this. And I'll keep an eye on Hero's Journey, just in case it rocks more than Scion. *wink*
You guys should be able to come up with some awesome stuff! We were sorry to leave any of our projects midstream, too, but there had to be a stopping point somewhere.
What I think would be REALLY awesome for you guys to do before you go, is make a few rough PDF's of the stuff you have (one for knacks, one for boons, one for house rules, etc.). But I understand the whole Time-consuming part, y'all need to get to work on your stuff.
You know, I tried chucking money at my monitor with the Hero's Journey website up full-screen, but it just didn't seem to work for some reason.
I was making a PDF of your rules to print out and bring to my in-person group because we're still largely driven by dead tree format. Never got around to completing it, because the group settled on the Hero System. Too bad -- it was all prettified and everything. I guess now I might as well finish it and shelve it alongside the rest of the Scion books.
By the way, thank you so much for your enhancements to the Scion system. In my opinion, it's made the game more clearly defined, a lot richer, and a lot more fun to play (speaking as someone who's played both vanilla Scion and your conversion). Moreover, I've learned so much more about mythology from you guys than I have from college courses and the various mythological texts I've collected over the years. So thank you so much for that too.
I'll be sure to follow progress on Hero's Journey. Good luck!
It's really sad 'cause I really wanted to see the fleshed-out Celestial purviews and the Hittite (and Tibetan [I think I asked that question in the questionado]) pantheon. :/ You have helped Scion becoming richer, better and so much more accurate to the sources it was inspired from. I'll be sure to join you on Hero's Journey.
I am very sorry that we could not give you our gift, Anne. We banded together to make sure you got the Hittites, but I suppose it does not make sense to put any more work into something you will never use. I sincerely hope your new project is as awesome as all of your old projects!
It was a lot of things, including my recent health issues and the schedule that the Scion 2.0 team is working on, that unfortunately made us unable to continue with them. Don't worry - they're still working on it and we know the game's in good hands!
They are NDA, so they probably cannot say. But there is no way they would walk away from an existing game line unless they did not like what they were seeing. Especially because it would probably have been easier to get into Onyx Path than start their own company.
I'm sorta curious how you guys intend to really differentiate yourselves from Scion 2E. There'll definitely be copyright/IP issues to sort out, and to compete in a market space of "Modern Mythic Fantasy RPGs" with an established company like Onyx Path will be difficult. I wish you both the best of luck in coming up with something cool, new, and exciting, but I remain somewhat skeptical.
Every little startup company has to start competing sometime! We're hoping for the best. We aren't worried about anything being Scion, however - Hero's Journey may still be about modern myths, but it will definitely not be the same game.
I can't say I was overly surprised at this new direction. It was bound to happen sooner or later, anyway. But, as fond as I am of this site, Hero's Journey is going to be awesome, and I support you all the way! :) I've allready moved into the new forums. You will find me under the name of Grevnor. I will probably show up to post from time to time, if I find anything interesting to contribute. See you on the other side!
JSR is DEAD!
ReplyDeleteJSR is DEAD!!
JSR is DEAD!!!
NO GODS NO!!!!
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!
(Can't wait to see you guys on your site.)
The king is dead... long live the king? :)
DeleteExactly!
DeleteAlright, serious question time.
I know you guys literally just proclaimed your first foray into gritty world of pen and paper RPG's and of course you're probably still pretty hush-hush about the this new setting your crafting but I just wanted to know a few of setting/fluff differences your game has with 1st edition Scion.
I see that you already moved this question over to the new forums, but in case anyone else is looking at it: that's where to go for questions about the new game!
DeleteHey.
ReplyDeleteI don't know how to feel about this. To be honest, over the past three years, I haven't really played much Scion. Schedules have been nuts, friendships have fallen apart, new jobs, lost jobs, new jobs again...but I have read JSR every day. Even if I never had anything to say, a portion of my time was spent on this site. Sitting at work pushing papers, my imagination would be captured by visions of sons and daughters of Gods and Goddesses punching out Minotaurs and flying across galaxies, because of Anne's blogs and fiction. Hours with friends were spent discussing John's rules and massive imagination. Terms were coined like "Annetheon" for the pdf pantheons. Aurora Dahl to me was like Frodo Baggins or Hermione Granger for others - an amazing and favorite fictional hero. I was never attached to Scion...I was attached to JSR.
Players have asked me, "How do you know these people, John and Anne?" And I've said, "uh, well, they're like 2/3 my heroes, and 1/3 internet friends." And that's how I'll always think of you guys. I'll be sad to say goodbye to the Theoi and Deva, Ourea and Tamoanchan, Psychopomp and Prophecy and Fertility. Three years of amazing stories and visions of legendary deeds. It's hard to think about.
But you two have an AMAZING gift, a gift you have selflessly given to a community for absolutely free, for YEARS. It is time you get recognized for it. And, most importantly, it's gonna be awesome. Really awesome. This is a game three years in the making.
You go, guys.
(Expect a big donation from me, soon!)
I think we have a lot of the same feelings that you do. :)
DeleteWhile it will be a whole new game and a whole new world, I suspect you'll see some familiar faces in fiction and game. Our players will be coming with us and while they'll be playing a new game, they'll be fielding the same characters that they've spent so much love and care on.
At this point I can absolutely understand and applaud your decision. When you have made as many changes as you two have to this game (which, idea-wise, I love, rules-wise not so much), it only makes sense to stop, reconsider and decide whether that amount of work would be better spent on your own game. (For which you can, ya know, make money maybe?)
ReplyDeleteI once was a partner in a start-up gaming company under the OGL. It's NOT EASY. So I applaud you again for taking this on. One of my partners once said, "You have to do this because you love it and believe in it. Not for the money. It's more like throwing your money in the fireplace [where there is a fire there] than a normal business." However, that doesn't need to be the case. You've got a lot built up to move forward with something new and different without having to create it all from the ground up.
Having said all that, is there a chance that you might be willing to part with some of the already partially done stuff and let others potentially finish it up? I've been writing about the Hittites, under my own name and, for a longer time as Anonymous. If there's a chance that you might be willing to pass on the 22% for me/others/some combo of the two to finish up.... well, that would be great.
Once again, congrats. I'll go look at the new site now...
I think that sounds like a great idea. I know we have some Hittite material that, while not fully fleshed out, some of you might still find useful, and at least a little material on one of the Titanrealms we were working on.
DeleteWe'll see what we can dig up to post in the next few weeks. :)
I second this! I would love to see if you had any general ideas, unfinished/unused boons or notes for the rest of the Boons / Knacks / Avatars project, something that maybe the community can add to and maybe finish? A man can dream!
DeleteThe Titanrealm stuff would be awesome to see as well!
In that same vein, would you be willing to ad a sort of "legacy" JSR board on your new forums for folks that will continue to use your material?
DeleteI understand if you want to move on completely from all of this to get on with the new stuff, but it would be great for those of us who will keep playing with these rules for a while :).
I was actually going to ask a similar question. I was thinking of asking it on the Journey forums but I think it's best to be asked here. From what I've seen, you're continuing Better Next Time/Skeins of Fate as a Scion game, because they're Legend 11 and it's been five years damnit they need to see Legend 12. If that's the case, you will probably have to work out Avatars/Ultimates and surely there will be some more (less extensive) House Ruling...
DeleteCare to share that with us, if/when that may be? (let's be honest here, I'm not going to be too attached to Scion once Hero's Journey is released, but it would definitely be cool to be In The Loop)
While we have loved Scion a long time, we probably won't be doing a legacy section for it on HJ. But y'all have all the HRs we've done over the yars, and Onyx Path has their own Scion forums, so I think you won't be hurting for somewhere to share ideas and talk about stuff!
DeleteAre you willing to accept money to finish projects? Like the current Titanrealms?
ReplyDeleteUnfortunately no - Scion doesn't belong to us, so we could get in big legal trouble by charging money to write things for it. However, I see that Ajax above asked if we would release the parts of things we already have done for you guys, and I don't see why not!
DeleteHahaha, I guess at this point I kind of just see Scion as your game. Buuuuuuuuut it's not.
ReplyDeleteThis one is though! That's really exciting! Congratulations and I can't wait to see what's in store!
P.S. Seconding the request to see the unfinished work you have done on your current Scion projects, I don't think I'll be able to go cold turkey.
Indeed, it's not - Onyx Path has Scion and it's in good hands with them. :)
DeleteThanks for seconding - we'll definitely look into doing that!
So... All of your ongoing games IRL, are they being canceled too? If so, that's very sad. ;(
ReplyDeleteNono, based on how long they've run they'll either switch over or continue using the old system.
DeleteHere is the big question....can we look forward to seeing Hero's Journey on Kickstater anytime soon?
DeleteI am happy to hear that! I want to know how things go for those characters. It's strange, but the stories you all are telling are very engaging to a third party-observer.
DeleteI gotta know where it goes!
There will be something happening on Kickstarter in the future, yes. :) Stay tuned on the new blog.
DeleteI'm so glad you enjoy the stories, Jason! We love telling them!
In that case I'll save my donation until the Kickstarter. I want my free book, Hero's Journey official toothbrush, and good seats to John's Show in NC.
DeleteWell, all the best wishes from here!
ReplyDeleteI'm definitely gonna be trying your new system, as i have enjoyed your rules and posts a lot in the past!
I... I might just need to get a drink of water, that's twice in my week big parts of my life have been shaken up...
Take your time! We're definitely breathing into paper bags a little bit over here ourselves...
Deletedang....I have bitter sweet thoughts and feelings. On one hand I can't wait to check out the new site. Plus we still get the parts that you finished.
ReplyDeleteOn the other hand I really did see you guys as scion....so it's a little strange at first but i'll get over it
thanks for the wonderful things you have given us in scion and I look forward to seeing your new game!
We'll look forward to seeing you over there! :)
DeleteOh man. This sucks. I just discovered you guys a few months ago and now y'all are shutting down. Ah well ç'est la vie.
ReplyDeleteI wish you many blessings in your new enterprise; May fleet footed Hermes Enagonius grant you wit and cunning in all your business ventures henceforth.
Now I just need to hunt down griffin guy since I just detectivated that he's an NYC metro area resident like me.
And may Hecate Nyctipolus go with you in all your travels. :)
Delete.... I need an adult?
DeleteMuch as I'm bummed to lose JSR, I don't play Scion, more of a mythology-based homebrew, so it's the Myth stuff I love and use. I'm intrigued by prospects of a new system, and expect it will be as good as what you've done here. See you on the new site (and I'll watch for Kickstarter news...)!
ReplyDeleteExcellent, see you there, sir!
Delete*lies down, tries not to cry, cries a lot. Golden retrievers worry*
ReplyDeleteI'm definitely going to move with you guys over to the new site, and contribute the the forums there. But I am sad to see this place go...
I know, man. We've been here a long time. Feels like leaving home, a little bit.
DeleteBut for good things.
If anybody's got a shot to make this sort of project work, it's the two of you.
ReplyDeleteI salute you for your years of peerless contributions, thank you for the many hours of gaming fun, and trust you to do something badass with all the irons you've got in the fire that we don't even know about yet.
Godspeed.
Thank you so much, good sir.
DeleteI'm not going to lie, I'm going to be sad to see this site close down. I learned a *lot* about mythology here. I was looking forward to things like the magic homing bees over in the Hitties and maybe, one day, a Kami rewrite or the Australian pantheon.
ReplyDeleteBut, you guys are moving on to your own project. Having seen your work here I know it'll be good, so I'm on board for the new game. Thanks once again for all the hard work you've put into this, and all the best with the new project. :)
It looks like we may release the details on the Hittites we already have, so you won't get the homing bees but you will get at least a little Turkish goodness. :)
DeleteWe'll look forward to seeing you over there!
So will there be vlogs during may? or should we stop waiting for them?
ReplyDeleteThere will still be posts and vlogs here, just less frequently than there used to be. We'll do at least another vlog or two to try to answer some lingering questionado stuff.
DeleteI am happy for you guys, and wish you the best on this. But at the same time, I'm a little disappointed that y'all won't be at least finishing the Boons.
ReplyDeleteI think I'll have to get my group of gamers and game-writers together and continue the work ourselves. I can kinda see where you were going with the Elementals, was planning on rewriting Mystery myself (the "AMA" format was too free-form for my tastes) and already have Justice half-rewritten anyway.
Fair you well on this. And I'll keep an eye on Hero's Journey, just in case it rocks more than Scion. *wink*
You guys should be able to come up with some awesome stuff! We were sorry to leave any of our projects midstream, too, but there had to be a stopping point somewhere.
DeleteGlad to know we might see you around. :)
What I think would be REALLY awesome for you guys to do before you go, is make a few rough PDF's of the stuff you have (one for knacks, one for boons, one for house rules, etc.). But I understand the whole Time-consuming part, y'all need to get to work on your stuff.
ReplyDeleteI believe some enterprising fan around here has already done that...
DeleteYou know, I tried chucking money at my monitor with the Hero's Journey website up full-screen, but it just didn't seem to work for some reason.
ReplyDeleteI was making a PDF of your rules to print out and bring to my in-person group because we're still largely driven by dead tree format. Never got around to completing it, because the group settled on the Hero System. Too bad -- it was all prettified and everything. I guess now I might as well finish it and shelve it alongside the rest of the Scion books.
By the way, thank you so much for your enhancements to the Scion system. In my opinion, it's made the game more clearly defined, a lot richer, and a lot more fun to play (speaking as someone who's played both vanilla Scion and your conversion). Moreover, I've learned so much more about mythology from you guys than I have from college courses and the various mythological texts I've collected over the years. So thank you so much for that too.
I'll be sure to follow progress on Hero's Journey. Good luck!
Ha! Don't worry, we'll have opportunities to contribute and get involved soon if you want to. :) Watch the new blog for news.
DeleteYou're welcome - we love learning and sharing, and we're glad you came along with us for the ride. Looking forward to seeing you over there!
It's really sad 'cause I really wanted to see the fleshed-out Celestial purviews and the Hittite (and Tibetan [I think I asked that question in the questionado]) pantheon. :/ You have helped Scion becoming richer, better and so much more accurate to the sources it was inspired from. I'll be sure to join you on Hero's Journey.
ReplyDeleteI'll see what I can do to get some Hittite love up before we go. After all, they are my favorites.
DeleteWe're so glad you enjoyed things here, and can't wait to see you over there. :)
I already joined your new website as Chronias ! :D
ReplyDeletewelcome :)
DeleteI am very sorry that we could not give you our gift, Anne.
ReplyDeleteWe banded together to make sure you got the Hittites, but I suppose it does not make sense to put any more work into something you will never use. I sincerely hope your new project is as awesome as all of your old projects!
new game will totally have hittites.
DeleteHa, I said that when we made the decision. Cursed timing!
DeleteBut John's right - I will just have a new place and way to crusade for Hattusia. :)
I'm just going to ask the question that is on everyone's mind and in a way that doesn't burn bridges and should not get you guys in trouble.
ReplyDeleteWas there a significant outside factor that influenced your household entity to depart from Scion mid-stream?
No, not really. We hadnt told anyone, but we had already departed from scion before we made any decision, myself long before anne had.
DeleteIt was a lot of things, including my recent health issues and the schedule that the Scion 2.0 team is working on, that unfortunately made us unable to continue with them. Don't worry - they're still working on it and we know the game's in good hands!
DeleteThey are NDA, so they probably cannot say.
DeleteBut there is no way they would walk away from an existing game line unless they did not like what they were seeing. Especially because it would probably have been easier to get into Onyx Path than start their own company.
I'm sorta curious how you guys intend to really differentiate yourselves from Scion 2E. There'll definitely be copyright/IP issues to sort out, and to compete in a market space of "Modern Mythic Fantasy RPGs" with an established company like Onyx Path will be difficult. I wish you both the best of luck in coming up with something cool, new, and exciting, but I remain somewhat skeptical.
ReplyDeleteEvery little startup company has to start competing sometime! We're hoping for the best. We aren't worried about anything being Scion, however - Hero's Journey may still be about modern myths, but it will definitely not be the same game.
DeleteI can't say I was overly surprised at this new direction. It was bound to happen sooner or later, anyway. But, as fond as I am of this site, Hero's Journey is going to be awesome, and I support you all the way! :)
ReplyDeleteI've allready moved into the new forums. You will find me under the name of Grevnor. I will probably show up to post from time to time, if I find anything interesting to contribute. See you on the other side!
Woohoo, see you there!
DeleteNo non-compete clause?
ReplyDelete