As promised, we tried not to make you wait too long - here's the new Thunder purview!
Where the old Sky purview combined weather, storms, air and a ton of other ideas, it wasn't quite able to handle all of the above in a way that was coherent and useful to Scions, and ended up as a sort of messy grab bag of vaguely related powers. When we split it into Sky and Thunder, we were thinking of the difference between gods of the firmament and the air within it and the lords of storm and destruction, and this new purview is definitely for the latter. Thunder is the purview of lightning, thunder, storms, rain, and the instinctive fear that such awesome natural events inspire in even the hardest of hearts. Sky was the purview for gods who want to make the heavens their sole, powerful domain, but Thunder is for those gods who want to run rampant across the countryside as the terrible forces of nature they are.
Most of the information on the split, including which gods have what and how to handle transitioning your games, can be found in the Sky release post from a couple of weeks ago. (Incidentally, for the gods among us, Tempest Blast over in Sky now has some concrete effects in conjunction with Thunder boons, so that's now got some usability.)
If you have questions about Thunder, hit us up in the comments, and game on!
Edit: Yes, the question box is down right now. Please ask questions about Thunder in the comments here instead of there, so you don't end up going without answers!
I've been refreshing this page all day waiting for this.
ReplyDeletehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YT516h7QwA4
Again, I was SO against the splitting of Sky and Thunder but it's done nothing but be awesome. It's like splitting a movie based on one book into two movies - it seems excessive in theory, but in practice it just allows the script writers to create more content.
/jams out
DeleteHey I know that Enlil is definitely more of a 'Sky' guy, but I just realized that one of his central (and pervasive) myths is him flooding the Earth catastrophically. Wouldn't that make him also have Thunder? I feel like someone whose major myth is flooding the Earth should probably have more than 'a few' of the boons...
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteI second that thought. He does bring the rains after all. Though I admit, the whole Thunder Purview gives off a strong feeling of Fury and Passion that I normally don't associate with Enlil. Yet again, however, he did wipe out most of humanity because they were making noise.
DeleteWe are a bit on the fence about him, because he does definitely do some rain, but is also primarily about winds. We're also not sure how to use the Flood as evidence, since that might also just mean he has a bunch of Water instead of Thunder (Water can flood pretty epically on its own!).
DeleteQuestions as they come to me...
ReplyDeleteWould it be an option for a Scion with Rainy Day to, in addition to the depressing weather and the lighter rains, also ensure that an area is denied rain, causing a drought?
Under Unnatural Rain: "Approximately half the animals survive impact with the ground." What if the animal can fly?
DeleteAlso, why isn't Levin Fury a choice between Thrown or Marksmanship anymore?
DeleteAt the moment, no, none of the Thunder boons withhold rain, only cause it. Basically, while people might pray to a rain god to bring rain during a drought, assuming that he stopped doing so because he's upset or needs to be propitiated, he usually isn't the cause of the drought. Storm gods cause rain, but droughts are the result of them not doing so, not separate powers.
DeleteFor Unnatural Rain, some of them need to not survive for balance reasons. We would say that the flying animals in question just came into being in midair with no idea what is happening, so even though they can fly, about the same number of them bang into things, run into each other or hit the ground by accident in the ensuing confusion.
Levin Fury is now for the throwing folks only, because yon lightning archers are probably using Storm Augmentation instead. Most dedicated archer heroes/gods have relic weapons, so Levin Fury isn't needed with those, while those doing only throwing are coming in naked.
DeleteHahahaha. So when a Storm god gets angry and decides that mortals no longer deserve any rain... he just weeps when it rains naturally!
DeleteWell, realistically he gets angry and fries everyone with lightning. But the idea of him being impotent against natural rain is hilarious!
Yeah, I'm thinking of times like when Tlaloc lost Xochiquetzal and then it was like, NO RAIN ANYMORE, BITCHES! And then when Quetzalcoatl ordered him to make it rain, he was like, "Oh, yeah?!" and made it rain fire (So, Unnatural Rain there. And while I'd question giving Tlaloc 8 dots of Fire for that, I'd say that it's probably a side effect of using The Storm).
DeleteIs it just a case where the rain god stops and no one fills in?
Thunder gods use the avatar to set up regional weather phenomenon. So they would need to use a full blown avatar again to cause a little drought.
DeleteUnless the regional weather tended toward drought without their intervention automatically. :) I would say it depends on where you are and what your ST rules.
DeleteYeah, Griff, while we did think of Tlaloc's rain of fire when writing Unnatural Rain, he was probably using the Avatar rather than that boon, since he doesn't have many fire connotations beyond that story.
Stormy grey clouds with flashes of dark blue sky within...wonderful colour scheme as usual :)
ReplyDeleteGloom is so much fun!
You know, this is unusual...I have no questions for this one, just the observation that Indra might not be such a pushover anymore. Then again, Shiva and Ishtar also just got a hell of a lot scarier.
I just noticed one thing...this is the first Elemental Purview with an Immunity Boon...and it's not immunity anymore. Will this trend continue?
Overall, other than feeling like Thunderstone is a bit lacklistre, I love it :D
I cannot wait to see Water.
P.S. So, the question box finally gave up did it? Let us observe a moment of silence.
That is indeed a trend. :) We have long been wanting to replace flat immunities with things that are more flexible. Not only does this prevent cheatery cheaterpantses from just buying one boon to gain total immunity to a purview until godhood, but it also allows for scenes where two Thunder gods can go head to head and bananas at each other, without the added annoying slowness of having to roll their boons each time.
DeleteI think this is the kind of flexibility that creates too much bookkeeping. I'm running a character with five different purview immunizes right now, and if this trend continues I'm going to have five more variables to keep track of. =(
DeleteUnless you're changing numbers of boons in a purview on the fly during game a whole lot, it shouldn't be an issue - all you have to do is write down "6" or whatever next to your soak, and update it once in a while. Or possibly just next to each purview on the sheet if there's not room up with the soaks. We usually add extra spaces to character sheets for that kind of thing, since there are a lot of powers that do situationally add to soaks (Earth is a big culprit, there).
DeleteSeveral is certainly more to keep track of than only one or two, so we sympathize, but flat immunities were overpowered as they were and encouraged people to buy them just to cheat others' powers, so we're unlikely to go back to them.
Hello quick question for Levin Fury, Is that Lethal damage or is it Bashing Im assuming Lethal but want to be absolutely sure
ReplyDeleteOh, thank you! Yes, it's lethal - will update in a second.
DeleteAnd the awesomeness is complete at last!
ReplyDeleteWell done, John and Anne! This Purview is awesome and does a great job showcasing how scary powerful Thunder gods are supposed to be.
I honestly can't think of a single criticism on this one. I suppose I agree with Samudra that Thunderstone could stand to be a little more impressive, but that's about it.
Well done, you two! Well done!
Any possibility of a hint about which Purview we're getting next?
(What? someone had to ask!) ;)
IIRC in the last vlog they stated it would be water.
Delete[Crosses Fingers] Please let it be Water...Please let it be Water...Please let it be Water...
DeleteWe did indeed say Water. :)
DeleteAny idea when that might be?
DeleteI know you have three Vlogs prepared, but if Water is done before that, will you be presenting it to us first, or waiting to use up your current quiver of Vlogs?
(Normally I would not ask this, but Water is my second favourite Purview after Stars and any info would be much appreciated). :)
We're anticipating that Water will take a while to complete, so I would not expect it any time in the next few weeks. We have Geoff test-piloting the lower-level boons at the moment, but higher-level will be a while yet.
DeleteRuns off to check Geoff's character sheet.
DeleteDon't get too excited, they're not on there yet! Sorry. :(
DeleteSigh. It's okay, I can wait (I hope). I'm just very happy Patience isn't actually a Virtue or I would be Extremitying like crazy. :p
DeleteSome questions that made their way into the box before it was closed:
ReplyDeleteDoes Gloom and Rainy Day stack? If so, hows the math work, triple the costs, the triple them, or multiply the costs by 6, or what?
No, they do not stack. Thank you for pointing out that they should say so, though - will go fix that!
Can you use Rain Dance before Rainy day so you get will power but everyone else gets a will power penalty?
DeleteRain Dance only activates when your foretold storm happens, so if you jump the gun by creating rain first, it won't trigger it. You can still use both boons one right after the other, but Rain Dance's effects won't trigger until the time they normally would.
Can you use Thundering Voice as the sound source for Thunderclap?
DeleteYou can use any noise as the sound source for Thunderclap. However, you would be using two boons at once, so Thundering Voice's roll would have the normal penalty for a multiple action.
If Ball Lightning runs out of targets in an area, does it dissipate prematurely?
DeleteYep. As the boon says, it lasts "until it runs out of either targets or damage to deal."
Blessing of Heaven confuses me. I hit bad guy X with Levin Fury, he takes Y damage, I use Blessing of Heaven on, who? Bad Guy X or Allie Z? Can I use it on myself? Does the person who just got hit have the option to get the damage healed WITHOUT losing the bonus health boxes?
DeleteBlessing of Heaven can only be used on someone you actually strike with lightning. You can use it on a bad guy you're attacking if you want to, although I assume most people wouldn't (I don't know, maybe you think he's a worthy foe or something?).
The point of the blessing is that a thunder-god's favor comes at a price, so anyone you want to favor needs to also deal with the dangers of lightning itself. If you want to give an ally a blessing, you must strike them with a Thunder boon that deals lightning damage, then use Blessing of Heaven on them. They can be healed of normal damage, but not any damage that subsequently goes into the Blessing boxes (because those vanish as soon as they are filled). If the target would have died from the damage, he can't be healed - he's actually technically dead, and only still moving because of the strength of your blessing. Death boons are his only hope at that point.
You can't use it on yourself, but thanks for pointing it out, because it should say that. :)
RE: Rain Dance, ignore what I said! I just realized I was looking at an old version of the boon. Yes, once you are high enough Legend to just create rain yourself, you can gain Willpower from doing so if Rain Dance is already in effect. Sheesh.
DeleteCan you use Rain Dance then Rainy Day and get the benefits of both boons? How does Rainy Day interact with the other Thunder boons that make weather?
ReplyDeleteMaelstrom: If you only use the 5 legend variant, do you still get to say which direction it travels?
Unnatural Rain: Will more variants be coming? I like Thunder conceptually and want to take it, but I also really like being able to take all the boons from a purview, but I don't wanna take any of the currently listed purviews to get the full benefits of Unnatural Rain.
Thunder Clap: Can you use Thundering Voice as the sound source? Is there a variant where you do the damage but not give those listening the bonus action? This boon seems halfway between helping people and hurting them.
Blessing of Heaven: This boon also seems confused. You damage someone, then they gain twice the damage done (and its taken right, soaked damage doesn't count toward health gained?) to their health in phantom health box's? Can you throw this boon on Ball Lighting and buff everyone hit thusly that way?
Ball Lightning: If it runs out of targets in the area, like, there are only 3 people in 50 miles of you, and those three are all bunched together, and you have the full Thunder purview, does the lightning just fizzle out?
Super Cell: You make a storm, the effects/events happen, but is it still a normal storm? I use this boon, I roll 1, 2, 3 for the events that take place, does that mean no rain? I guess what I'm asking is, do you still get rain, lightning and wind regardless of what you roll om the events chart?
Lightning Eater: You get hit with normal lightning bolt, 'cause your going for a stroll in a storm, 'cause your a god, of storms. You use Lightning Eater, 'cause you could use some more Legend, you don't get the bonus soak from Lightning Affinity, but you have epic Stamina, and soak all the damage, no Legend then, right?
Thunder Stone: This one boon is the most polarizing for me. On the one hand, fluff wise, I think I like it the most. It really captures the feel of 'as dangerous as storms are, they also benefit the world, though you might have to go looking for that benefit to find it'. Mechanically, I'm not so keen on a boon in this purview that only benefits. It seems to be missing a element of 'sky father is angry, so now the world deals with his anger' and/or 'storms do what they want and anyone who gets in their way reaps what they sow' that the other boons convey. Maybe I'm just thinking to narrowly about its applications. 5 Legend for a 5 dot relics isn't anything to sneeze at I suppose. Well, actual questions: Can a Thunder god give a Thunder Stone to another Thunder god and they get the full benefit? How do you determine which of the abilities that the Thunder Stone affects? Does the creating God get to choose?
The Storm: There's a type in the description, becomes is missing the b at the beginning.
The whole purview: I get a general feeling of "highly destructive and not contained, but mostly directed force of nature" from this new purview. I like it, some of the boons are a little confusing to me, because they are not what I expected.
I just answered about Rain Dance above - yes, if you cause rain to happen, it'll trigger the WP gain from Rain Dance if it's up. Of course, whether or not the cost of rain-causing boons is worth it for WP gain is up to you...
DeleteMaelstrom: No, the baby hurricane is on its own, although you can probably make a decent guess about which way it'll travel if you have the smarts to look at the local weather patterns.
Unnatural Rain: We don't have any plans to add rain from other purviews at the moment, mostly because there's no mythological basis for them. There are instances of rains of blood/fire/food/fish from the sky in various mythologies and folkloric stories, but trying to come up with some kind of rain of Moon/Illusion/Death/War would just be us making up a sort of generic RPG power. If UR isn't in your skillset, however, you can always go for Maelstrom instead.
Thunderclap: Answered above, you can use any sound for the source of it. And no, this boon is all or nothing - you can either take damage and act, or do neither. You have to choose when using it whether everyone getting an extra action when they shouldn't (which is hella powerful in combat, let me tell you) is worth them taking damage right now.
Blessing of Heaven: This isn't confused, it's working as intended. This is a buff that doesn't happen unless it also deals damage; you're a thunder god, and that means that you can bless people, but you must do so through the destructive elements of storms, which are generally not fun. You're correct, it's only damage actually suffered, not any damage soaked. And yes, you could use it in conjunction with Ball Lightning, but you would need to pay for each person it struck, since it's not the lightning hitting them that triggers this but yourself activating BoH.
Answered above - as the boon says, it lasts until it either runs out of damage or targets, and ends at that point. If there were only two targets in the area, it hits no one else regardless of how much damage is "left over".
Supercell: It should be a normal storm, including thunder and rain, aside from the effects of the events that you roll. It's at your ST's discretion, though - it should be a normal storm for the area you're in, which may not always be a temperate zone rainfall.
Lightning Eater: That's correct. "No pain, no gain" is the motto of the Thunder purview. To look at it another way, if you soaked all the damage, it basically bounced off you and you had no opportunity to absorb it and repurpose it for your own lightning boons.
Thunderstone: We're fans of this flavor-wise, too - thunderstones were (and are, in some places) real things that people went looking for after storms! You can give your thunderstone to anyone you want, even if they also have Thunder, and you decide which bonus it has on it. And you can always "take it away" from them by just creating a new one, causing theirs to be worthless, if they piss you off. There are a few other boons in the purview without backlash - Rain Dance, for example - but you're right, it's a purview about cosmic destructive forces so the ones that are only positive are rare.
Thanks for the typo note!
Whoops, sorry about the redundant questions, didn't realize they made it into the box! Also, there an edit button?
ReplyDeleteNo worries! Unfortunately, Blogger doesn't have an Edit button, we don't get to edit our comments, either. :(
DeleteIs it just me, or does the "Cost (Variable)" for Charged Blood not match up with the description, which does not contain a cost?
ReplyDeleteAha, I see that a key clause was left out! It's been updated now. The boon costs 1L/3L/5L, depending on the level of the purview you have.
DeleteMy question is, why Int+Academics?
DeleteI've been thinking about Sky and Thunder, seems like half of what is in those Purviews now is very straight forward in what the boons do and cover a specific task that would come up a lot (combat damage, big general utility like flying or causing rain) and the other half are more quirky things that require some thought be put in to make full use of them. Will this patter (that might not exist) be persisting through the rest of the Purviews?
ReplyDeleteI think there'll always be a range of thought/effort into using some boons across players, but that's not necessarily a bad thing for those that like to plan strategies! I'm not sure exactly what kinds of things you're referring to here, but these rewritten purviews are the kinds of things we want to see in the future.
DeleteFun colors, but hard to read against the grey background.
ReplyDeleteNoted.
DeleteAnother thought: Seems like Gloom might be overpowered without some difficulty or opposed stat (Mental Resist?) - an unopposed essentially auto success roll for a demigod power would mean any power that causes WP drain + Gloom is an unstoppable power to cause virtue extremities and stop gods from using WP based powers.
ReplyDeleteGloom, like all other powers that target an enemy, gets the automatic W+I+L resist. I can try to make that a little clearer, though. :)
DeleteAh! Forgot about that house rule of yours.
DeleteHey guys, I notice you have a cost 'varies' in Charged Blood, but I can't what the power actually costs for any of the variety of powers. It just says it takes an action to manifest and then it lists what the power does.
ReplyDeleteSomeone else also pointed that out above - it's been fixed!
DeleteCoincidentally, I'm planning to use Pazuzu in an upcoming story, so my question is; is he Sky or Thunder or both? Some sources say sky demon, some say storm god. Thanks, and keep up the great work!
ReplyDeleteHe should definitely have Sky, considering that he's the lord of the South Wind and part of the suite of wind-spirits in Mesopotamian mythology. I have seen storms mentioned in connection with him but not a lot of specifics, so I would maybe lean toward him having all the Sky and a selection of some Thunder boons.
DeleteThanks muchly for the quick reply!
DeleteOh, and forgot to say it before, but Thunder Gods are now officially Badactical.
ReplyDeleteHa ha ha, awesome.
Deletehttp://youtu.be/uT3SBzmDxGk
ReplyDeleteI had a few questions earlier this morning from when I skimmed, but I see they've all been asked and answered already!
I haven't really sunk my teeth into this yet, but it looks great!
That video made my day happy.
DeleteThis is the best purview yet. Really.
ReplyDeleteDamn I need a game of Scion.
We're so glad you like it! :)
DeleteSo, while the question box is down, where, if anywhere, can we ask questions? I'd prefer not to clutter up the Lightning Purview comment thread with my questions about Kukulkan and the nature of pantheons and so on.
ReplyDeleteYou know, for all that Fire is supposed to be the great element of destruction and passion and what not...I'm getting a distinct impression that Thunder is far more inclined to break stuff than Fire ever will (that may change once Fire comes out, of course).
ReplyDeleteIn fact, Fire Gods in general seem to be much more calm and composed thinkers and doers than the sheer insane rages of Thunder Gods. Look at Agni and Hephaesthus and then look at Shango or Oya or Ishtar or Shiva or Ninurta or...the list goes on. Why is that?
By the way, I'm noticing a trend...there are more Sky Titans than Thunder Titans, and more Thunder Gods than Sky Gods. Is that just a happy accident, or is there some bigger mythic thing going on? Is the Sky just, more Titanic somehow?
I suspect that part of it is because, at least for ancient people, fire was a "tameable" element and thunder/lightning were not. Fire is dangerous and terrible when it gets out of control, but also really important and beneficial for things like cooking, warmth, light and so on. It's a tool humanity can and does frequently use to better their lives. But no one has any control over storms; they show up when they want to, where they want to, inflict completely random damage that can never really be predicted very well, and there's nothing whatsoever we can do about it.
DeleteSo while there are definitely some fire gods that are all about devouring and burning, there are also a lot of helpful ones that represent fire's useful and tamed aspects. But there's no such thing as tamed thunder, so those gods are straight up bananas.
I think new Scions have some room to do cool new stuff with trying to become that new guard of "positive" thunder deities - now that humanity can and does use electricity for things, there's at least a small dimension of Thunder that can be considered tamed. But at the same time, bad weather is still out of humanity's league to control or deal with, so it's still not nearly as "under control" as fire.
As for the Sky Titans, I think that's an Indo-European cosmology feature that repeats itself a lot. There's often a primordial Earth Mother and Sky Father (or occasionally reversed), clearly Titans, that represent the ground and the sky respectively, so there are a lot of Titans of Sky running around just as default parts of the universe. Thunder's generally more active, so it's more likely that more of those deities are active parts of religions and stories than their ancient forefathers.
I cannot wait for new fire to get this type of rewrite. Thunder seems fantastic.
DeleteThis is an incredibly amazing Purview, thank you guys so much for all the hard work you put into doing this. I am really interested to see what happens to Psychopomp, since we have been seeing snippets of travel powers inside Sky and Thunder.
ReplyDeleteBut, I do have a quick question. Are the lightning bolts created by Levin' Fury able to be buffed with Storm Augmentation? I remember they used to work in conjunction, but I just wanted to ask with this new version.
Very glad you're enjoying it! :)
DeleteNo, the Levin Fury lightning bolts are not true "weapons", just manifestations of a power, so they are only used on their own and can't have Storm Augmentation stacked on them.
Hi guys, late question here :
ReplyDeleteWhat are the Annuna "Me" abilities associated with Thunder?
We were just heading to update that this morning! Thunder has Presence and Thrown; Sky now has Athletics and Marksmanship.
DeleteOkay, just read through the purview again and HOLY CARP!
ReplyDeleteYou guys didn't just put Storm Augmentation on steroids, you GAVE IT 'ROID RAGE!
This may have been the case before your recent rewrites, but still...DAMN! I love it! Much better than just a knock-back effect.