Question: I've noticed that in your character sheets you have a place to record the 'level' of a character's purview. What purpose does that serve? Do you, perhaps, use one of the many homebrew rules I've found on the net where characters use their purview level instead of Attributes to use Boons? And if you don't use this system, what are your views on it?
We don't use that system, but we do occasionally use purview levels for various things. While the total number of boons a character possesses in a given purview is a more common mechanic for things we write, the level of the purview also makes fairly frequent appearances where it makes sense for it to. For example, the Fool Me Once... Perception knack directly pits the Scion's level of Epic Perception against his opponent's level of Illusion, and the Me purview uses purview level as a control to make sure that the purview is only used when it's at an equivalent level of power. You'll see things here and there that depend on the level of the purview; it's a helpful mechanic for situations in which we want a player's investment in a purview to matter, but don't need the variable number of boons to be a factor.
We also use the level of purview for a few basic mechanics; for example, Scions with elemental purviews who have at least level 8 or higher are able to ignore the immunity boons of those who don't, so that a Scion who has clawed their way up to Control Fire isn't automatically defanged by someone else who only has Fire Immunity. Your purview level also matters when it comes to looking at whether you're ready to move up in Legend; someone who doesn't have any max-level purviews is probably not skillset-ready to move on.
As for the system of replacing Attribute-based boon rolls with the level of the purview, that is indeed a common houserule for several games around the web. We don't use it, but we understand why some people do: divorcing the purviews from the Attributes allows players to invest in a purview without worrying about also buying the Attributes that go with it, allowing them to be good at Water without having to buy anything else to shore that up. It's a neat solution for those who don't like having to invest in more than one thing to make their powerset work.
We prefer to keep Attributes and purviews together, because we like the interplay between them and think it makes for a richer, more complex game. It makes sense for Attributes to play a part in purviews, whether it's because you need a decent amount of Charisma to command your magical troops, a good deal of Intelligence to comprehend the inner workings of a divine being's systems or a heavy dollop of Manipulation to convince others that they're not seeing what they think they're seeing. We like to keep purviews diversified enough that, while there are certainly probably a couple of Attributes that are leaned on heavily (Stamina for Guardian, Manipulation for Illusion and so on), no purview uses only one or two attributes exclusively and every one has room for characters of various different types to be good at at least some of its powers without too much hassle. Our Fatebond system, which heftily rewards those who are good at a given purview, also helps boost those who are good at the purview but not necessarily at the Attributes involved in a given boon. We're also big fans of letting Scions who earn them pick up relics and Birthrights that help enhance their purviews of choice, which often makes a big difference depending on what they're doing.
Honestly, the purview-level epics system bores us; it puts everyone with that purview automatically on a level playing field, and ignores the fact that some War gods are probably better at X kind of War boons that other gods who specialize in Y. Keeping Attributes involved allows those kinds of differences within the purview to be manifest, with both gods obviously being badass masters of their domain but expressing it in different ways, and we enjoy that.
So if you goal is for all Fertility gods to be exactly as good at Fertility as all other Fertility gods, the boon system will probably work awesomely for you. But we like the system more diversified than that, and we like encouraging players to think about how various facets of themselves play off of and enhance one another, so we prefer to keep the Attribute roll system and help individual players find the best way for them to shine in it.
If I were to run a Scion game, those would allow me to know better how invested my players are in specific purviews, without going through their list of boons, which can get wordy even when they reach Legend 5, and trying to put a purview to each boon name.
ReplyDeleteThat information is good for crafting adventures, both whether I'm deciding to craft one around powers one or more players have, or whether I want to challenge them with something none of them has, or that one or more of them has placed very little investment in.
Yeah, knowing someone's purview level is usually useful whether you use attributes or boon levels for purview rolls. It at least gives a good, quick snapshot of where a character's magical strengths lie.
DeleteWe use it because it opens up player concepts. It's a little amusing to have to build up stamina on any character ever to be a healer with Health ... and yet you'll never touch yourself with those boons.
ReplyDeleteI don't like all of my War Gods charismatic, I don't want ever Water god as dexterous as the next. I think the level playing field AND THEN putting a Fate Expectation or Fatebinding system on top of that is a great way to go and liberates player choice.
One war god fatebonded to excell when they're leading in an intellectual general sort of way (going for the mostly support/leader boons) while another one gets a fate bonus whenever they lead like a quasi-William Wallace Me-Gibson-style makes for a different feel for your NPCS/PCs.
I hate being constricted and the difference between folks of one epic attribute level at God to the next is more than enough to make me feel like I have to build a character tailored to whatever purviews I envision for them, not build a character and wind up with a character I'd enjoy.
That is your right, and your St's right to decide for your game, if that's what works for you.
DeleteI kinda like having a character who might not be the best at everything the Purview can do, but in the things he's great at, he shines even brighter.
It also depends a lot on concept and choice of Purviews. Someone who wanted to be the fucking best at his chosen Purviews, can certainly choose to do so. If they choose Purviews who have mostly similar Attibutes required. And in any case, you need to up your Epic Attributes in any case to be on par with opponents. Not all of them to the same level, mind you, but then again, like most things, you pick and choose what fits your concept the most.
I am afraid I fall on the side of divorcing Purviews from Attributes. If you want a character who might not be as good at something as another character, you can simply flavor your roleplay that way. A character with 5 athletics might roleplay being a great acrobatic and not as great at weight lifting.
DeleteIf someone wants to be the best at a chosen purview they are not obligated to take the attribute that appears most frequently in that purview. They are free to select attributes that fit their character concept better. Different cultures even had different attributes associated with certain purviews, so while Charisma might make great sense for Fire in one culture it may not in another culture.
I would much rather a player pick their attributes based on roleplaying instead of what gives them the strongst purviews.
Point in fact, players do not just choose Attributes based on role-playing. There's always the added question of maybe shoring up a weakness somewhat, or getting this cool Boon they want, or increasing the power of their character, whether Attributes affect Purviews, or not. Yes, ideally it should be purely by role-playing, but let's be real, and admit it's not always so.
DeleteNot to mention that in Scion, especially at Demigod and God, you more or less have Epic Attributes in most if not all of them. by that point it's more a matter of how any Epics you have in each to help define the concept.
Our different Fatebond systems don't work together well with that idea - I know you guys use more of a conceptual Fatebond bonuses idea, whereas ours are attached to specific stats, so for us Fatebonds don't actually make a difference since all War gods will have the same Fatebond to War. (But they can have different ones to the other Attributes and Abilities involved, which does make a difference, so again that works better for us!)
DeleteLike I said up in the post, different strokes, really. They're all just different playstyles depending on how a game wants to represent gods being varying levels of good at the things they do.
P.S. By "you guys" I meant "Aynie", sorry to be confusing! I don't know everybody's Fatebond life. :)
DeleteYarr. Different strokes and whatnot. I wouldn't presume that my way's any better or preferable for anyone else. :)
DeleteWell, besides John. STILL mad at him for that N'sync medley.
While I understand the argument to divorce purviews from attributes, I must disagree with it. If everyone was on an even playing feel with the purviews, then it would be near impossible to figure out who was on top and that bring in to question how one civilization beat another in this game. Another issue I have is then the game seems to be more bland.
DeleteMy characters I choose a parent that I wish, like my Israeli Sniper with Bast and my Beach Bum with Susano-o(sorry is mispelled, going off of memory.) I then built the character in mind of how I wished them to be and how their parents would in some ways push their children. Like the Bast child being pushed into a military career through Bast playing the system or how his father's way with water pushed the child of Susano-o not wishing any more but to live near or on the ocean. After I built them that way, I gave relics that would work best with how they play. Moon and Darkness with Bast and Water, Psychopump and Earth with Susano-o.
After that, its easy to justify some things cause they would be close to having the skills needed for those purviews and if not, training with it could help. Like Lunacy in Demi-god, the only level four I can remember from the basic books. My character has some decent manipulation, but near to none presence. He never learned how to assert himself fully in groups unless he was angry or absolutely hate the idea. Throughout the game, the more he spoke up and the more he asserted himself, I would increase it and the ST agreed with me.
Now then, I am not everyone. Just because this works with me that not everyone is on an even level does not mean it can not work on others. If people want to do that, I would not join their games, but I also would want to hear how it goes. Cause I would be curious how people on a near even level scale would win over each other.
I should say this also, while I like Lunacy and what it does, I do not see it being something my character would like to do and use. So even if I get it, he will never be really good at it. I made a conscious effort with the character to never get a dot of epic in social willingly. His physical and mental are dumped with quite a bit of points into it cause thats the type of character I wanted.
DeleteThere are plenty of things to diversify the playing field; dice adders and fatebonds (depending on how you run fatebonds) are the two most common.
DeleteThe thing I am most tired of is people selecting their purviews and feeling like they have to take certain attributes. Or people taking certain attributes and feeling like they can't take certain purviews. I cannot begin to count how many charismatic war gods I've seen, or how many charismatic and attractive fertility gods, or how many durable and smart health gods, or durable guardian gods.
This is more to Kyle though. Definitely different strokes for different folks as mentioned above.