Okay, so our estimates on completion were way too optimistic - we forgot about that little thing called the holidays, and also didn't anticipate that this project would be so thorny and difficult. Remember when we converted the Anunna for the site, and that was relatively easy and painless and quick, and we all felt satisfied with our work and didn't have towering fights about mechanics rewrites? Those were good times.
But we're dauntless, and now, to ring in the new year, we finally have the Bogovi ready for action as a playable pantheon on the site. Woohoo!
As always when we convert one of the PDF pantheons for actual play in our games, there have been changes; their Virtue setup has been tweaked, their PSP of Dvoeverie is very different from its original incarnation, although it keeps several key ideas, and a couple of gods didn't make it from the PDF onto the site's playable roster (sorry, Jarilo and Zhiva!). If you're using closer to Scion's original rules, you may want to stick with what you see in the PDF on the downloads page; if you're running closer to our systems, feel free to dive into the new posted material with us!
We want to really quick point out, before anyone asks, that we know that some pantheons are missing from the Dvoeverie boons that list them off. Since Dvoeverie is all about the most iconic powers and ideas from various pantheons, we really couldn't be comfortable with trying to assign those for the pantheons and PSPs we haven't completed overhauling yet. So they're missing from the table for now, but we'll hopefully be adding them back over time, and in the meantime Storytellers should feel free to fill in the blanks as necessary with whatever they deem most appropriate.
And speaking of pantheons who aren't yet overhauled, we've made a minor change to the pantheons page to hide them for the time being. They're still accessible to anyone who wants to use them, but this way they aren't taking up space for those who are waiting for the rewrites, and we can restore them to the page proper as we work through them.
So, now that the Slavs are done, where to next? The answer is Africa, because you fine people voted for the long overdue overhaul of the Loa. We're super excited about this and can't wait to get started; books on the Yoruba pantheons and their diaspora versions are scattered around our house like confetti. It's been a long time coming, but hopefully we'll be able to give them a good hard look and come back with a brushed-up roster, a new set of (better, more awesome) powers and a fresh outlook. Watch out, orisha, we're coming for you.
And while we're doing that, there's a snazzy new poll over on the right for you guys to vote on what we move on to next! We made it fancy by removing some of the old voting options that weren't doing very well (but don't worry if they were your favorites - they may make another appearance someday!) and adding some new projects that we're excited to work on. Let us know what you're interested in, because we are, as always, nothing if not jazzed to come up with something new and fun to add to the game.
And if you have questions about the Slavs, hit us up here, we're ready for 'em!
Traditsya seems to be missing an entry for Loyalty.
ReplyDeleteOh, shoot - somehow the master list didn't have Loyalty on it. We'll get that updated ASAP!
DeleteFixed, should be up momentarily
DeleteOther than that though, the entire PSP is amazing, and the same goes for the whole Pantheon write-up (I especially seem to find the images for the Gods to be very evocative, and I'm dying to play a Scion of Radegast just looking at the guy!). Congratulations on a job well done!
ReplyDeleteJust two more questions though:
Firstly, why does Svarozhich have all four elemental Purviews? My knowledge of Slavic myth is pathetic, but I've never heard of him as beubg associated with anything beyond Fire, both terrestrial and Celestial. Is it to represent his Creator God role?
Secondly, when you laid out in your earlier post the plans you had for the Orishas/Loa, it included giving them their own proper Titan. Does that mean that the Orisha/Loa rewrite package includes a new Titanrealm writeup (in which case I'l probably be switching my vote from New Titanrealm to Amatsukami Overhaul on the new poll)?
Glad you like it!
DeleteSvarozhich was given Earth and Water thanks to his exploits as a creator god, when he literally forms the earth and waters from the cosmic debris of Svarog's first primordial creation. We struggled with it a bit since he thereafter is almost all about the Fire, but eventually decided that literally sculpting the earth and creating the rivers and seas merited a dude being associated with Earth and Water.
Loa! We're super excited about them! At the moment, we're thinking the package probably won't include the Titan; we'd rather get the pantheon shipshape for players who are using it rather than bogging it down with the extra, much-longer process of adding on a Titanrealm. So keep on voting for Titans; they're their own thing. :)
Yeah, the myth goes pretty in depth about the individual stuff he does with mountains and waters. I always go back and forth on stuff like this, but its mentioned a few times through several books.
DeleteLoa overhaul is next. I literally did a little dance.
ReplyDeleteP.S. - Dvoeverie is amazing. I covet it.
DeleteCorrect me if i'm wrong but wouldn't using Dvoeverie to mimic the Burning Heart PSP be against the Slav's rule of non-interference?
DeleteDon't worry, Amy - we'll get you some more people to make your life hard!
DeleteBryan: nope, actually. The Burning Heart only works on Legendary beings for the Bogovi, so they actually can't use it on mortals (well, they can, but they'd get no bonuses and be breaking the rules to boot).
Amy does the dance of her parent being removed from the playable god roster.
DeleteI admit to being amused that of your current God-level band, half have parents that are no longer 'playable'/Legend 12.
DeleteI know, right? The hallmarks of our youthful game beginnings!
DeleteIt should be 3/4 ;)
DeleteWhat's wrong with Huitzilopochtli and Baldur?
DeleteHuitzilopochtli ain't goin' nowhere, but John's always been kind of on the fence about whether or not Baldur has enough associations pre-Ragnarok. He's so crochety.
DeleteBaldur is hot, and he is bright.....and thats about it. His war connotations are a stretch at best.
DeleteAlso, his sun connotations are....iffy. Hes BRIGHT, but doesnt seem to actually do anything with the sun.
DeleteDva Dukhom & Dvoinobog: The Tutha don't have Loyalty. They have Courage, Expression, Intellect, and Piety.
ReplyDeleteAlso, it does make me a bit sad the only option for a Vengeance Bogovi is to use Dva Dukhom/Dvoinobog for Arete, especially when all the other three Dodekatheon Virtues get it, too.
Dva Sverdtsa: If I'm reading this right, if you buy Dvoeverie up to this level four times (once for each Slavic Virtue), you can have up to five Natures?
Other than those questions, though, I really like this. It's fascinating.
Thanks for the typo catch! Obviously my New Year's drinking has not yet fully worn off.
DeleteYeah, I feel you on the Vengeance issue - just not enough people have it. :( If you're using the Elohim, they're another option (your ST would have to decide what boons were granted with Dva Dukhom and Dvoinobog, but I'd suggest Tongue of the Gods and Promised Land?). I'm not sure yet if the Loa will be keeping Vengeance, but they definitely have it for the moment, so they're currently another option.
Vengeance is really underloved.
Re: Dva Svertdsa, that is correct. God knows you'll need the opportunity to fulfill a lot of Natures if you have eight freaking Virtues, though.
Oh, yeah - I don't know if you're using off-the-menu PDF pantheons, but the Alihah have Vengeance, too. I'd recommend Umrah and Hudna for those monkeying around with Hajj.
Delete1. Why the change-up in Virtues, dropping Conviction and Endurance in favor of Duty and Order?
ReplyDelete2. This is somewhat incidental, but I've noticed that it seems like a lot of pantheons have BOTH Order and Piety - Pesedjet, Loa, Annunaki, Elohim, and Bogovi. What's up with that?
3. Why the removal of Jarilo and Zhiva; not enough solid associations? I noticed all these guys were a little slimmer than in the original PDF...
4. Yaaay, Slavic names for the Dvoeverie Boons!
5. Traditsya: Loyalty seems to be missing from that list (unless I missed something somewhere else).
Great work, looks sharp! :)
1. While Conviction and Endurance definitely aren't foreign to the Bogovi, upon further examination we decided that Order was an absolute necessity. These are guys who solve all problems with their court system and freak out en masse whenever someone breaks the rules; we replaced Endurance, which, while something that is easily associated with the durable Slavs, was also a little more theoretical and less tied to what they actually do. And then we realized that they were the Pesedjet, so we had to change up at least one other; the Slavic insistence on doing your jobs re: eternal cycles and seasons and their big emphasis on rules and obeying made Duty seem like the best fit, and since that was basically what Conviction was there for, we swapped the two.
Delete2. Yeah, seriously, right? I think the pantheons that are all about Follow the Fucking Rules are often also the ones who are like And the Gods Make the Fucking Rules, Respect.
3. Poor Jarilo and Zhiva! I wanted to keep them, but John's axe is merciless. I had to admit that poor Zhiva doesn't really have any stories of her own deeds - she appears as a side character in the tales of some other gods, but doesn't do a lot on her own, so she was demoted to probably Legend 10 or so. Jarilo has a very important story, that of his death-rebirth cycle and torridly messy affair with his wife Morena, but as it was the only thing he has going on, we ended up deciding he's probably Legend 11ish.
4. Yay!
5. Yeah, Samudra caught that, too. I'm updating it as soon as I finish posting this!
Anne lets a lot of people slip in the pdfs that I disagree with. She mostly does it to even stuff out(not enough women for example. I tried to take every single woman out of the slavic pantheon, and the yazata when we did them and we had arguments about them), but when we put em up on the site we get to each make our case and we win some and lose some, and sometimes come out the other side agreeing. Its why taking a pantheon from a pdf to the website is almost as long a process as doing the pdf in the first place.
DeleteDud that sounds so mysoginistic.
DeleteThats how almost all ancient cultures were. It should be no surprise that the female gods did less and were worshiped less and had far fewer stories.
DeleteIf it makes you feel better, re: Conviction and Endurance, at least Dvoeverie, as written, allows you to pick those up. Tie them to Piety and Harmony, leave Duty and Order at one dot, and, viola!
DeleteSo two questions -
ReplyDelete1, for John, you made it clear before and throughout the Bogovi project that you weren't really all that happy with making them playable and putting them on the site, but now that you've had your say in it and put them up, are you happy with how they turned out?
2, for Anne (or either, really,) on Perun's page it says that Perun interfered and fought the Aesir in their invasion of Russia. Is that actually in myth?
Yes, actually! Hudec's Slavic myth narratives include a tale in which the Slavs are attacked by an invading force of Germanic tribesmen (which they refer to as the "Nemtsi", meaning "the dumb" because they don't understand their language) who win most of their wars because their gods fight along with them, whereas the Bogovi are forbidden to give direct aid to their people. Perun doesn't directly attack the Aesir gods themselves, but he does go down there and light up the leader of the raiders and causes general havoc before the rest of the pantheon manages to get him back off the battlefield. Later, the Slavs capture one of the Germanic attackers, and he directly names Thor, Odin and Frigg as their gods.
DeleteThe invasion's probably of one of the more western Slavic lands closer to the Aesir - probably closer to Poland or the Czech lands, around there. Still super cool, though - you rarely see a myth that directly sets two named sets of gods against one another.
It's for the best that the pantheon managed to shut that down. Perun vs. Thor head to head would just have ended in scorched earth and sadness.
Yes, they turned out well. Im not sure its the best use of our time ;)
DeleteBut they turned out really well, and they look really nice. I think they're psp became overly....paperworky, but I like it a lot. And reading all the myths was kind of a pain...but they are a pretty cool pantheon and their stuff is neat. Have also had fun playing all of them in recent games, they can be pretty awesome as a group.
Too bad about Zhiva. I really liked her. At least Chors made the cut though.
ReplyDeleteGreat to see them on the site! :)
I'm glad they're finally ready to go, too!
DeleteIf you liked her, there is no reason you cant play a scion of her, or have her in your games...she just certainly isnt legend 12....she pretty much does not a whole lot.
DeleteThere was a big fight about chors....she only does things in russia
What is Hero to God Adventure: Aztlanti? A story?
ReplyDeleteYes, it would be a full adventure (similar to the ones in the books) focused on Aztlanti matters and the possible end of the Fifth World. It'd have plot points, NPCs, settings and so forth for STs to run an adventure from Hero through God.
DeleteI'm sorely tempted to ask for this now, but I think the Japanese need a little love and a rework on them is needed. Though I will be keeping my eye on that and the Steampunk one. Just because I like Steampunk. lol.
DeleteSounds closer in concept to the Ragnarock book.
DeleteYes, itd be very similar to what they do with the ragnarok book. But it would be sans extra gods, relics, etc.
DeleteThat is so awesome! Many thanks.
ReplyDeleteAlso, I'm really glad about the change on the Pantheon page of showing the groups you have finalised. It helps when directing friends and players to specific Pantheons :)
Glad it helps. Trying to not take credit for all of that ;)
DeleteHey, you may have whined about them being in the way, but the idea of hiding them was all me! Glory hound.
Delete