Question: Where do humans find themselves in your games? Are people that are not family or friends of the PCs important? Further, what is your stance on gods influencing humanity's growth? Is it like the stance in the books where the gods seem to be the ones making the great scientific and architectural advancements (minimally pointing humans in the correct direction)? Are humans anything more than fatebinding cattle for the gods? Perhaps a step up from cattle, but not more than small children?
Humanity is in a unique and interesting position in Scion: it's both the most and least important group of people in existence. Humanity as a whole is a force capable of reshaping the planet and weighing down the most hardy of gods with the force of their belief and expectations; they can literally change the divine just by believing that it should change, thanks to the power of Fatebonds. Yet, humans on their own, especially individually or in small groups, are negligible to gods and have no hope of affecting or influencing them unless they are specifically allowed to do so. It's a fascinating conundrum for a Storyteller to play with.
Humans that are not directly related to the PCs in some way usually aren't particularly important, but that's not necessarily because they're human; it's because the story is about the PCs, so of course people they don't know aren't as important as people they do (this goes for gods and immortal beings as well). It's true that PCs can have trouble relating to mortals, particularly once they become higher level Demigods and Gods; it's very difficult to form a close attachment to someone you know you could (in some cases literally) reshape into anything you wanted them to be in the blink of an eye. If you can just make them love you, why bother with all the time wasted on courting? If you can make them look like whatever you want, what's the point in choosing one mortal over another? If they can't summon up even a fraction of your brainpower, what on earth could you have to talk to them about? Gods don't interact with humans well because they are by nature too overwhelming and awe-inspiring for a human to handle.
But that doesn't mean mortals can't be important; in fact, they often are. They certainly aren't "cattle", which isn't a label that's particularly appropriate for Scion anyway (though it would be for a game like Vampire), though the idea of "children" probably applies to many gods' perception of them. It entirely depends on the character how they treat mortals and what matters to them when it comes to such underpowered beings. Some, like Aiona, pay about as much attention to them as they would to gnats; as long as they keep doing what she told them to do, they can be totally ignored, and if they fuck up, well, light a few on fire until they stop. Others, like Sowiljr or Vala, care about individual mortals as the people they are, safeguarding them against the vast powers that might wipe them out like the helpless creatures they are. Still others make distinctions between what kinds of mortals they care about (such as Eztli, who would die to save any mortal of Aztec descent but who really couldn't give even the tiniest of damns about anybody else) or what specific people matter to them (Folkwardr actually married a mortal when he was Legend 8; she and her son matter a great deal for him, even though they're not actually involved in his story most of the time). In a sense, it's a lot like people treat other people in real life, just on a larger scale; those who are likely to be sympathetic are still sympathetic, those who never liked other people anyway are free to ignore them, and those who were very selective about who they love can continue to do so without too much of a shift in perspective. Scions, especially, often have close ties to at least a few mortals each; they were recently mortal themselves, after all, and just because they've learned to throw thunderbolts doesn't mean they don't love their mothers anymore.
As far as your Zeuses and Odins go, they may not normally be able to care too much about humanity, but Avatars are a glorious invention that let them power down and live as almost as weak as the humans themselves. For them, it's sort of like replaying a favorite video game; you start over at level 1, and even though you know how the story ends and that you've beaten it before, it's still a fun challenge to go through the motions with your starting equipment. You might find humans incomprehensibly stupid when you have Ultimate Intelligence, but if you drop down to a Legend 3 Avatar, suddenly they're not so bad, and in turn they will treat you refreshingly like another human, since they aren't overloaded by your Ultimate social attributes, either.
Like most things in Scion, it depends on the god or PC in question. Every one has a different personality, which means that some are genocide-prone sociopaths who really couldn't care less if the entire planet were depopulated, and some are crusaders for equality and mercy who would happily trade their own lives to save those of humans. It all depends on who the mortals are, what's happening, and how that particular divine person happens to feel about them.
How capable are humans in your games? Were they the ones to design the pyramids and the Hanging Gardens of Babylon? Are they smart enough to unlock the secrets of the atom all on their own? Or were those actually the achievements of scions or gods who are much smarter than any human could be? How much of humanity's progress in the sciences are their own discoveries?
ReplyDeleteI imagine most of that was actually humanity. After all, they're concepts that humans can understand; if they weren't, they wouldn't. QED.
DeleteMore importantly, gods and Scions really don't need to invent that kind of thing, because they have automatic cosmic power anyway. People who can fly by Legend 2 really don't need to invent airplanes, nor do people with Inner Furnace have any real need to bother with figuring out how to synthesize safer food. Scions are a pretty recent phenomenon, since the gods have been gone for several thousand years until the escape of the Titans, and the gods themselves are mostly not going to be running around risking a bunch of Fatebonds in the name of human progress.
That doesn't mean that the influence of the gods isn't involved in some way; some gods may have subtly encouraged or rewarded mortals pursuing things they wanted to see happen in the world, just as they do in any situation, and it's of course fully possible that a god or Scion invented any fancy thing you want to name. If you have a particular thing you really want to call out as a divinely-motivated invention or idea and have a really cool idea for why that happened and what it was about, then by all means.
But without a reason, I'd assume humanity got where it is mostly on its own merits. They may not have Epic Intelligence, but they're very tenacious and they have all the generations of trial-and-error that anybody could need.
Oh, your specific examples - in Scion, some of the pyramids were designed by Imhotep, who was indeed a Scion, so they were at least a little bit divinely inspired (though the Egyptians built a lot of monuments and pyramids over their thousands of years of activity, so assuming they were all the work of Scions would be a little bit silly). In the Anunna supplement on the downloads page, it's mentioned that the Hanging Gardens were designed and built by a mortal king, and that they so impressed Ishtar that she had them permanently (and probably more grandiosely) built in the Overworld to enjoy.
DeleteAiona sounds like a piece of work. Unlike sangria she just seems like (pardon my language) a bitch of the highest order instead of a complete psychopath.
ReplyDeleteMany have called her that. She gets things done at all costs. Sometimes that gets one labeled as a bitch or bastard. And it might be correct. Having no qualms about murder/feelings of remorse, etc does make one ALSO a psychopath though.
DeleteAh, yes, Aiona. She and Eztli are both very scary, but in different ways. They're a good illustration of two different kinds of mental deviation.
DeleteEztli's a psychopath; she doesn't understand or really even recognize other peoples' existence. She's incapable of understanding that other people are like herself; they could be blocks of wood or bowling pins and she would probably not notice a lot of difference. There's no moral problem for her in killing somebody, any more than you'd have a moral problem with breaking a cardboard box.
Aiona, on the other hand, is a sociopath; she knows other people have feelings and problems of their own. She is aware of things like social contracts, societal boundaries and moral systems. She just doesn't care; if things get in her way, she'll remove them, whether or not that happens to hurt other people. That's their problem.
Then I guess Hachiro is pretty justified in his seeking vengeance against Aiona for murdering his sister. From what I understand she was a scion of Izanami but never awakened, or if she was she was a hero level weak enough that Aiona could light her on fire with little trouble. That's what made me think Aiona/Sophia was a little on the psycho side killing an innocent girl just to remove her curse, and just because she didn't want have to deal with the danger of taking on the more powerful Hachiro. How is Goze doing with what they did now with his growing heroic attitude.
DeleteYeah, Shoushi was a Scion, but she was only a Hero, and with Sophia rolling in at Legend 7 she had no chance. Sophia's not the kind of crazy that kills little girls for fun, but she is fully willing to do whatever it takes to get what she considers the most important thing done. She's a bit like the Punisher.
DeleteHachiro is completely justified in being pissed off at her for it (though it should be pointed out that he is not lily-white in this situation, either - he did leave his sister to die).
Goze (also known affectionately to other players as Captain Valor) has enough familial loyalty to Sophia not to turn on her, but he spends a lot of time now trying to keep her from letting humans be collateral damage, with mildly successful results.
do you think you could put Shoushi up on the character page?
ReplyDeleteThe character page is for PCs, those who have actually been played in game; Shoushi never was (in fact, she didn't even do much as an NPC other than get killed, unfortunately for her). We don't have a character sheet or anything for her, and she doesn't really have enough going on to have a character page of her own.
DeleteYou're welcome to dream up whatever stats you would have liked her to have, though, if you feel like it. I believe she was Legend 4.
She was a Scion of Izanami like her brother right? Was she a product of her mothers light or dark side, as described in the scion core book?
ReplyDeleteScion core book....what is that...?
DeleteShe was actually legend 2. I guess one could consider her the "lighter" side. She wasnt dark and terrifying yet, but then she was also still young.
Scion Hero, the first book in the series. In the Amatsukami section it talks about Izanami, and how her scions are either a product of her light creative side (when Izanami was alive) or her dark deathly side that she has now. The light happy children get birthrights from other gods while the dark children get birthrights from Izanami herself. It's all on Scion Hero pg.85.
DeleteI was being sarcastic ;)
DeleteBesides, since Izanami is dead now and has been for centuries, I don't think she's got a lot of "light" children around anyway. I see what the book was trying to do there, but like many things in the books, it doesn't really work for me. You want a light and life Scion, you should probably look elsewhere than Izanami.
DeleteOr maybe a better way of saying it: that's always going to be a up to a player anyway. There's no need for a weird "she has two kinds of Scion" idea; she has exactly as many kinds of Scions as players build different kinds of PCs. Some might make a "throwback" to her life before death, others (more often, I imagine) focus on her current state, since that's where her associated powers are, anyway.
Delete