Question: Can parthenogenesis be an acceptable origin for a Scion?
Neat question! It depends completely on which direction the parthenogenesis is coming from.
If the mother is a goddess, then most of the time, I would say no. While many goddesses, particularly those associated with Health, could probably knock themselves up without needing help from anybody else, a child whose only parent is a goddess would just be born a god himself, at Legend 9 like all other god-children. He wouldn't be able to do much in the world with a Legend rating already so high, plus he'd probably be a huge pain in the ass for his mother (as god-children are generally wont to be). You can see a great example of this in Aztec mythology with the birth of Huitzilopochtli; he was parthenogenically born and conceived, but there's no doubt that he popped out a fully effective god the second he left the womb.
However, if you want to stick with the virgin mother feel from the other end, that's a distinct possibility! Mythology's rife with stories of gods impregnating human ladies without actually having sex with them, usually through some combination of sneakery, purview Avatars, or both. Surya caused the princess Kunti to conceive and bear his son Karna without even touching her in order to allow her to remain a virgin, Coniraya hid some of his sperm in a piece of fruit so that Cavillaca became pregnant as soon as she ate it, and the Saoshyant, son of Ahura Mazda, is prophesied to one day be born to a woman who washes in a lake that he left a drop of seed in. There's even the possibility of a Scion's mother believing he was conceived parthenogenically even if it isn't true - after all, if the god-parent is sneaky enough, she might never know what happened.
I should qualify what I said above - being born of a goddess mother only could theoretically happen for a Scion, but she'd have to in some way involve a human, even if it was just using a dab of a human father's sperm or something, so it wouldn't be true parthenogenesis. Having a pure divine origin is always going to lead to being born a god; you need at least a touch of humanity to be the glorious half-breed that is a Scion.
Can't a Goddess Avatar Down and pull off making A Scion?
ReplyDeleteYes, but if she were Avatared down, she wouldn't have access to any purview avatars, which are the only things that could allow her to immaculately conceive on her own. She'd still have to find a gentleman and do it the old-fashioned way if she dropped that much of her power.
DeleteI suppose, however, that she could drop down to Legend 8 or lower and some other god could then use the Savior or what have you on her to cause her to immaculately conceive. So it'd be odd and contrived and I'm not sure why anyone would want to do it, but it'd be theoretically possible.
In such a case, though, I'd rule that she'd have to stay at that low Legend for the duration of the pregnancy - if she went back to Legend 12, there's no reason the baby wouldn't become a god as well, since the only "mortal" component to its conception was its mothers low Legend rating. Again, theoretically possible, but not practical.
Anyone with unusual alteration can reproduce asexually, or in relatively odd cases just go through the process of using unusual alteration to make themselves pregnant with a fetus with whatever DNA they fancy.
DeleteOf course, the latter would require a very healthy Science score in a related field.
What? How does unusual alteration give you god level health? Unusual alteration changes yourself. It does not make another life form.
DeleteSpecifically the text in Undeniable Resemblance that read "He can even change genders (and be completely fertile in the new form) or exhibit characteristics of both (and be fertile in both). Any morphology and physiognomy that exists on the spectrum of human variety is a valid change."
DeleteUnusual alteration removes the limitation 'spectrum of human variety'. Even with undeniable resemblance you could impregnate yourself, but when you add unusual alteration into the mix you make things very easy such as being able to mass impregnate like an oak tree, or bees. You could also reproduce by budding like many metazoan animals.
In fact there is no reason why you cannot automate the process yourself. Change yourself to have thousands of gametes then change yourself so that they are together, then change yourself so they mature at a rate that is relevant to your story. The only real problem is the difficulty you might have adventuring with the rest of your band while you've turned yourself into a baby factory.
Gods are weird and come up with all sorts of bizare setups to get around things.
ReplyDeleteThey certainly can - I just mean that they'd have to have a good reason to. For most goddesses, unless there was an incredibly important reason they needed a parthenogenically generated child who was a Scion instead of a god, there's no reason to do it when it's such a pain in the ass. But hey, if you have a Scion you want to be parthenogenetic and you come up with that crazy important reason and you and your ST run with it, that's cool.
DeleteHuitzilopochtli is a weird case and I am not sure if he counts as parthenogenetically conceived. I think it might be just a culture's way of playing fast and loose with what counts as genetic material. (Compare: Mayan Hero Twins being conceived when their dead father's skull spits on their mother's hand.) If you wanted to take that tack, you've got an interesting puzzle in what the ball of feathers in Huitz's origin story represents, or is really connected to.
ReplyDeleteThat is to say,
glob of skull-spit : ball of feathers :: Hun Hunahpu : _________?
Yeah, the question of what counts as parthenogenic in myth is a whole ball of wax unto itself, I think. There are lots of stories of women conceiving through magical means that definitely aren't traditional sex (or even nontraditional sex), but there's still often a catalyst that may or may not have something to do or represent when it comes to male involvement. In fact, there's honestly no parthenogenetic story I can think of in any myth that doesn't involve two things coming together in some way, even if they take the form of inanimate objects, showers of rain, one person gazing at another, or some similar craziness. The idea of needing two parts to make a new living thing is so deeply psychologically ingrained in humanity that there are very few stories of "pure" parthenogenesis, and those tend to be Titan-Female-Creates-The-World tales.
DeleteYou question is a mystery. I've seen theories ranging from Mixcoatl (again) to Huitzilopochtli himself deciding to be born to the feathers being a generalized representation of the sky impregnating the earth.
don't forget the greatest story of parthenogenisis in history (sic). Actually on the Scion Wiki a player created an Elohim pantheon where there were tecnically no "gods" with the angels filling those positions. "god" or YHWH was the last remaining member of an older pantheon who struggled on alone until he created the angels to help him. Eventually the clashing worship of monotheism in the world drove YWHY insane causing Jesus to put him in a divine insane asylum while he ran the pantheon alone. It's a real cool concept. It's in the new pantheon section of the scion wiki, check it out.
ReplyDeleteI'd actually argue that Christ's birth isn't "pure" parthenogenesis - Mary could not, on her own, have conceived and borne him. Just like most mythological stories, there had to be a second person involved - in this case, the Christian God - in order to make that happen. (Though how that happened - what kind of thing the Biblical story of Mary being "impregnated" by God is referring to - is a subject of much debate, with different scholars arguing that it's a divine mandate with no contact, a magical insertion of a baby into her womb, or even a metaphor for some agent sent by God to do it for him.)
Deletethat's why i put the (sic) for snicker. personally I'm of the opinion that the man called christ never existed and the stories surrounding him are from the amalgamation of the different dying resurrecting god men in the ancient world (Osiris, Dionysus, mithra).
ReplyDeleteWhat? Seriously? Now whether or not he performed miracles, any other supernatural events happened I can see arguments easily against but there is historical records for Jesus and his crucifixion.
Deleteactually there are not. Read the Jesus mysteries. It debunks many of the "historical" records as fabrications and propaganda of the Catholic Church while proving the viability that "Jesus" is an amalgamations of many dying resurrecting gods from earlier eras. Basically take away all historical records from the church (which are suspect) and there is no evidence (even/especially) from the Romans that the man called Jesus ever really existed or was Crucified.
ReplyDeleteIts also not a mainstream take on the subject. And the argument doesn't make any sense in the first place, Yes the overtly supernatural aspects do draw from other places, but that's not what's being argued. What is being argued is whether there was a person who went around teaching around that period who was crucified for his actions. Suffice to say that period of history was rife with would be prophets and teachers, so its not an alien concept.
ReplyDeleteIt's not mainstream because the mainstream has been dictated by the Church for the last thousand years, and the last thing they would do would admit there savior doesn't really exist. Again, read the Jesus mysteries and consider the arguments it makes.
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