Question: One of my PCs playing a Scion of Amaterasu recently killed his half-brother - admittedly in an attempt to stop him from doing dark deeds. What is the general attitude to kin-slaying amongst the different pantheons, as I can imagine this will pop up again at some point and wondering what opportunities for trouble (I mean development) I can put my players through?
You'd be hard-pressed to find a culture whose myths don't find fratricide pretty much as abhorrent a crime as there is. It's interesting that you're working with the Amatsukami, because they're actually one of the few pantheons that doesn't have an immediate and incredibly violent response to kin-slaying - or, at least, not necessarily to the extreme that other pantheons do. It's still definitely, definitely not okay - not only murder, but murder of a family member is beyond the pale of social rules for pretty much everybody - but they're not the Dodekatheon.
However, if, like most Scions, your PC is in a band with children of gods from other pantheons, he may have to deal with their extreme reactions (or even their parents'). The Dodekatheon are notoriously harsh when it comes to punishing kin-slayers - murdering a family member (especially a divine one) is likely to gain you the extremely unpleasant attentions of folks like Nemesis or the Furies, not to mention usually involving the extreme censure and disavowal of any Greeks who know about it. Greek mythology usually assigns great calamity, misfortune and eventual destruction to those who murder their families; even if your PC's Greek bandmates are understanding that it had to be done, they may want to give him a wide berth to avoid getting hit by any of the inevitable fallout. The Norse are similarly harsh when it comes to the murder of family members, though, depending on how liberal the Aesir your PC associates with are, he might be able to appease some of them by making an appropriately massive weregild to Amaterasu for the loss of her son (and I doubt she'd argue). Persian culture, especially where it rubs up against the Greek lands, is very disapproving of familicide of any kind, and the Tuatha are likely to be appalled by such an act.
Your PC has all the makings of a tragic hero; he may have done what he did for the good of everyone and it might have been the only choice, but fratricide is right up there with the most unforgivable sins for a lot of pantheons. He's likely to find himself dogged by that stigma for a very long time if not forever; depending on his personality, he may try to provide restitution to the family to try to smooth things over, perform some prescribed act (or acts) of penance to appease his allies, or just try to continue being the best hero he can be and hope that his valorous deeds eventually outshine the unfortunate necessity of killing his brother. Scions are by definition more modern than their pantheons, so he may find that his band supports him, as they're likely to have seen firsthand what said brother was capable of and to have wanted him out of the picture.
Sometimes you just have to stick to your guns. It may make life hell when dealing with the fratricide-opposed pantheons... but then again, Kane can seriously be a huge dick.
If he had let one of his bandmates do the deed, there would be no problem.
ReplyDeleteIt probably would be less of a problem, but I'm not sure standing by and letting someone else kill his brother would let him off without some consequences, either. It would almost certainly be less of a heavy stigma than doing it himself, though, you're right.
DeleteThen again, some heroes just gotta do what they gotta do. There's something to be said for the badassness of refusing to let anyone else deal with a bad apple from your own family but yourself, or going to face such a close-to-home nemesis on your own.
I don't think it's actually occurred to the player that this is going to cause trouble for him in the long run.
Deletethat player needs a hard reality check then
DeleteThat's my thinking too - if nothing else it will make a good setup for him to start running around making amends.
DeleteMaybe with a touch of grovelling in too..
This is why you keep an Aztec on your team at all times.
ReplyDeleteMost pantheons: I just killed a family member. I am now cursed. Fate will hound me wherever I go.
Aztec: I just killed a family member. Sweet, extra Legend!
If only it weren't for all that pesky Loyalty and Duty!
DeleteThat's what Conviction's for!
DeleteAh...boon that makes kinda zero sense...I'll get to you one day itzl and anne and i will fight for hours.
DeleteNot on that boon I won't.
DeleteIt makes some sense to me. What greater sacrifice could there be than the sacrifice of a god-to-be? There's no blood more potent. Though sacrificing your own divine parent seems silly.
DeleteBecause it gets into a strange area where, god blood actually isnt what is used for sacrifices. Gods are powered by the blood sacrifice of humans, not the blood sacrifice of themselves.
DeleteThe very rare sacrifice of a god in myth is often to create something permanent, or so that they die, but instead of dying become something else more important. Its never, just so we can have more legend to spend on stuff. One god never gets more powerful by sacrificing another.
You know... if anything, the 10-dot Itztli Boon should be a means of sacrificing [i]themselves[/i], either in part (ala Tezcatlipoca's foot) or in whole (Such as Nanahuatzin dying to become Tonatiuh, or the Four Tezcatlipocas dying to start it moving again). Such sacrifices would transform the God and... I don't know what kind of bonuses you'd get from that. I'm just suggesting the form, not the specifics...
DeleteAdditionally, it gives Gods who don't have Ultimate Stamina or Fertility 10 a means of returning from the dead if they've been sacrificed (Something I, personally, have thought was needed).
On the downside, doing something like that should incur, at the very least, an enormous Fatebinding. And that's on top of the "Come back from the dead, lose a dot of Legend" penalty.
That... is a very good thematic idea. I also have no idea what kind of bonuses to give it, but it's a great starting point!
DeleteYes, a sacrifice self for the pantheon, become something completely different boon would work far better there.
DeleteThis is a sticky situation for any Scion and, to some degree, it crops up whenever there's Scion-on-Scion death. The Divine Family of another Scion is almost never going to be HAPPY that you killed their kid, no matter how big a dick that kid was being to you at the time.
ReplyDeleteI have an ex-Scion of Lugh in my game who is being hunted down by four mercenary Scions and he's extremely reluctant to kill any of them for fear of making his status among the Tuatha even more of an issue by killing established Demigods. One of the hunters is a Nemetondevos, but that doesn't exactly make things better. It just adds another dimension to the issue since if he whacks that guy, the Gauls probably won't be pleased about it.
The best thing you can really do is cultivate allies that will speak for you and defend your deeds, but also be ready and willing to make amends. Unless you just don't care and are willing to live (or die) with the consequences of a buncha angry deities.
We've found that dealing with the fallout of some ill-advised Scion slayings early in their careers has led to a lot of interesting and cool (and often nearly lethal) plotlines for our PCs. Having "killed son of Set, then ran away" on your resume is terrible for your chances of survival in the future.
DeleteAnd, of course, you can always enjoy bringing in the sins of the fathers as well - poor Vala never did anything to the Amatsukami, but thanks to dear old dad screwing them over she's ten kinds of unwelcome in the east.
I'm thinking of using this to shake the players out of the mentaility that they are playing something akin to a video game
Delete(All players are mostly new to RPG's)
and that yes they have lots of freedom but there are now lots of consequences.
It might also solve their over-reliance on their guides - not so much help will be coming their way if they keep killing off their relatives.
But the Greeks and Aesir are barbarians who know nothing of honor and duty, why does their opinion matter? I mean they are barely any different from titanspawn anyway....
ReplyDeletewell played
DeleteI am just not big on accepting judgement from a philandering Serial rapist.
DeleteThe Confuscian in me says that as Head of the Family and Nation Amaterasu would be the end all be all of who has authority here.
Of course she still might make you fall on your sword, because the japanese are silly like that.
Well the Amaterasu and Shen are Imperialist Xenophobes who show no westerner the respect due them. A manly god like Zeus does not care about the opinion of any women, least of all a stuck up bitch (from his point of view) like Amaterasu. Given half the chance he would probably rape her to put her in her place (again his point of view) and see how good a lay she is.
DeleteNo, no, no the Shen and the Amatsukami DO show Westerners the respect due to them. I mean the Slavs and Egyptians seem reasonable enough
DeleteIts just laughable to treat phallic mastery as a basis of governmental power.
just saying what Zeus would think of them. He and Odin probably think they are arrogant effite weaklings who don't know how make hard choices and who respect people to there faces, while laughing at them behind their backs.
ReplyDeleteThe situation being he'd be looking down on said person.. for making a hard choice.
DeleteI'd argue Odin and Zeus would find the Shen and Kami have no concept of Kinship, that they are monsterous robots or star trek Vulcans.. especially the Shen.
true. If there's one noble thing about the Dodekatheon and Aiser, it's there passion and kinship respectively. I admire the eastern gods, but I prefer the passionate Aiser and Dodekatheon, even if it does cause problems. Drinking with Thor is more fun than a boring tea ceremony.
DeleteThere's plenty of Shinto shrines that double as breweries that should probably say something about the drinking habits of the Kami
Delete