Thursday, April 5, 2012

A Clash of Kings

Question: How do the head honchos of each pantheon interact with each other and view each other in your games? What does Zeus think of Odin? Tezcatilpoca thinks what of Horus? What happens in your game if they all get put into room together?

Well, as noted in a previous post, Tezcatlipoca is actually more of a really awesome adjunct; Huitzilopochtli's the dude you want when asking about the leader of his pantheon and his political interactions. He is every kind of in charge.

But that aside, politics are a thorny and tangled thing in our games; having Scions from many different pantheons interacting in the same bands tends to make that happen, because their parents are a lot less likely to play nicely together than they are. (Which is a lot of fun, really.) There've been friendships, enmity, and political faux pas pretty much every way you turn. A few highlights, in no particular order:

Zeus and Odin find one another irritating, I imagine - neither is willing to be anything but The Most In Charge, so they don't get along too well and tend to avoid one another. Odin seems to maintain an air of amused superiority when it comes to Zeus, which is probably asking for trouble at some future date. Zeus can't see around Odin's shenanigans, but he's pretty sure (rightly) he's probably being insulted most of the time. It's a powderkeg of a situation and has been for centuries.

In a much worse situation, Odin basically declared flat-out war on Huitzilopochtli, which has led to a very, very nasty and bloody guerrilla campaign between the two pantheons. Odin wanted to lay claim to various resources the Aztlanti owned and didn't have much of a problem rolling in personally to get them, while Huitzilopochtli, who had previously thought they were on pretty good terms, got real pissed real quick.

Oh, and Odin also led a strike-force into Japan to get a relic that was hidden there, so he and Amaterasu aren't speaking anymore, either. Odin is really just a continual political disaster due to his impressive ability to not give a shit about anyone else's problems or happiness.

On happier terms, however, are Huitzilopochtli and Shango, who are buddies and have been known to go drinking and blowing things up with fire from the sky together when they aren't busy. Shango is similarly on fairly decent terms with the Pesedjet, though his pantheon makes a point of never letting him anywhere near Zeus lest An Incident inevitably occur between the two volatile thunder-gods.

It's not a huge surprise that Zeus has pretty much zero respect for the struggling remnants of the Nemetondevos; their feud continues apace, often including raids on one anothers' Overworlds and remote messing with one anothers' Scions. Cernunnos and Odin, on the other hand, are actually getting along and cautiously allied at the moment, probably because they both have a history of seriously pissing off ominous trios of ladies.

And, of course, nobody likes the Trimurti.

Most pantheon heads are pretty neutral toward one another; there's about the amount of posturing and penis-comparing and demanding going on whenever they're near one another that you'd expect, but due to the Titan war they're mostly able to put aside their political kerfluffles and fight together when necessary. Other than the cases above, things aren't usually too bad - but considering that the PCs are also prone to political missteps and many pantheon leaders have notoriously bad tempers, the situation is always apt to shift suddenly and violently.

13 comments:

  1. and why exactly does no one like the trimurti?

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    1. The Trimurti take that whole "I'm in charge, all of you start bowing and scraping" idea that all the king god have going on to something of an extreme. They're not hostile by any means, but they're always somewhat condescending and overbearing, and usually find a way to remind everyone in the room how much better they are than anyone else. On a recent visit to Asgard, Vishnu and Shiva basically told an entire room full of gods point-blank that their decision to help the PCs trumped any of their problems. Most insulting is the fact that they are apparently never worried that anyone is even going to argue with them, let alone defy them.

      Which makes sense, really; the Trimurti are so immensely, ascendantly important in their own religion (which claims that they are actually the literal underpinnings of the universe) that it's not surprising that they have something of a superiority complex. It's sort of like what would happen if Odin, Ra and Zeus were a coherent team that didn't fight with one another - they just assume that everyone else is going to do whatever the hell they tell them to.

      The PCs also hate them, but that's more because Shiva is a personal-space-invading dick.

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  2. I guess it doesn't help that they have the largest remaining active polytheistic religion backing them up. When you have a base of worshipers at least as large (if not larger) than many other pantheons had at there peak you can't help but feel superior.

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    1. Plus, when people have been telling you that the entire world's existence depends on you for the last few thousand years, you probably think you're a pretty big deal.

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  3. Does anyone respect the Jade Emperor since he's just an appointed position?

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    1. Companion is a horrible book full of inaccuracies and made up BS.

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    2. Which is to say, basically, the Jade Emperor is actually a god in myth, so we don't see any reason it should instead be a random office passed around to various other gods. Our Jade Emperor is, you know, the emperor.

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  4. I am almost certain I've seen myths where its treated as an office and that there have been multiple Emperors

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    1. I would have to see some citation. We've done in depth research and found that to be completely untrue. He certainly has people that rule before and after him, but they have different titles: Divine Master of Heavenly Origin, and Heavenly Master of of the Dawn of Jade of the Golden Door respectively.

      Quick wikipedia double check:
      It seems in the 1900s they wrote some stuff about the Jade Emperor being the 18th Jade Emperor in a succession of Jade emperors. But BS from the 1900s does not count.

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    2. Yeah I checked wiki after I posted that and noticed the difference. Still having the Jade Emperor having Abdicated in the past does show a wonderful bit of contrast between the Shen and their fellow gods.

      Or to put it another way think of Odin, Zeus and the Jade Emperor as different scales of Fighting Fate. Each of them start with the idea "Someday you will be replaced" now the Jade Emperor being very much a being of Wu Wei, sees this acknowledges someday his time will come does not allow it to consume him, and thus quietly steps down when his time comes. Ultimately because he doesn't fight Fate but rides it as a leaf on the wind his people are better off(No Ragnarok type scenario) their "end" is an older god handing off the Reigns to a younger one.

      Next we have Zeus who's solidly in the middle. Now he still has the option to accept someday one of his children will surpass him, but has so far worked pretty hard to fight this. Now you'd think he would have learned from all those Greek tragedies how this works out, but willful ignorance and hubris are strong themes in them so Zeus repeating them makes a certain amount of sense. Still he has the option of turning around, accepting Fate and gaining a position in the future much like Saturn in Roman myth.


      Finally we get to Odin. Odin is screwed. Odin knows this and yet he keeps digging his hole deeper, the more he digs the worse he makes it for his people. If Odin had accepted his Fate maybe Ragnarok wouldn't be such an explosive death toll for the Aesir.


      This is why I think its important that the Jade Emperor having passed the title of Emperor Of Heaven to show the benefits of being a Leaf on Fate's Wind.(that might make a good spell)

      Thus I have ultimately no problem with Guan Yu being the current Emperor of Heaven, though I would not make it based on some "Democratic" type setup but rather as I said tie it to Fate.

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    3. It seems to me that the idea of the office being passed around, both in twentieth century China and in Scion, is a result of trying to reconcile too many emperors; Huang Di and Guan Yu are both definitely emperors and were very important as such before deification, so it's weird to add them to the ranks of the gods but not have them be in charge. I get that, but at the same time, revisionism doesn't usually float my boat when it's so extremely recent. Other pantheons deal with their surfeit of kings (see the Pesedjet) without having to invent new and weirdly dissonant political structures to do so.

      I don't see anything wrong with inventing a spell that has to do with following Fate's edicts, but I also don't have any interest in inventing something for the Shen that never was on a grand scale like that. There are myriad ways to work with them being more harmoniously in tune with the world and Fate, a la Taoism, without making things up. I'd rather work with what's there like all other pantheons.

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    4. That sounds like something that could be a good way for an ST to take his game. A story seed if you will. But not something that should be in the base set. Its more interesting for that to be something that happens during the game, that the players are involved with then saying it happened before the setting and just leave it at that. Also, we know from myth that the next jade emperor will not be the "jade emperor" but the guy of golden doors or whatever that I wrote about above. So calling him a new Jade Emperor, making that the title, seems very odd.

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  5. Well Guan Yu wasn't really an Emperor, Liu Bei was much closer to that. Also I am not saying the title of Jade Emperor needs to be passed vs Emperor of Heaven. That's very much already there, that there was an Emperor before him, that there will be an Emperor after him.

    Even Guan Yu replacing him as Emperor of Heaven is in the mythology(it is a recent addition, but it being a living Mythology this doesn't discredit it)

    What doesn't make sense is the Elector Gods setup. Tying it directly to Fate would solve this immensely(and tie back into the jade Emperor as the Embodiment of Wu Wei).


    In my mind, based on the adherence the Shen hold to Wu Wei, I'd imagine they'd see Nem as equally bad as Titan Spawn and treat them accordingly.

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