Question: How do you view the creation of Scions? In my mind, the war has forced gods to admit their infidelities and start visiting the lovechildren they have created to protect the world, but I see a lot of other people portraying it as a divine breeding program to create soldiers. How do these two ideas gel with myth?
Honestly, they don't. Scion's setting, in which the Titans have escaped from Tartarus to wreak havoc on the world, is a fictional invention that doesn't follow mythic patterns too closely, which means that a lot of the basics that follow it are also game conventions instead of mythological ones. We stress accuracy to ancient myth in our games a lot, but even so there are things that are obviously modern fiction that there's no way around - the pantheons of different cultures hanging out and cooperating, for example, despite the fact that there is no ancient mythic precedent for Amaterasu having tea with Ptah.
The existence of modern Scions is also one of these game-setting creations; for most mythologies, demigods are a long-ago and faraway phenomenon, hardly something you'd expect to see today. Some have an entire ancient age dedicated to them, like Greece's Age of Heroes; others simply consider them relics of a more devout time, while still others believe in one or two to come but certainly not in a whole avalanche of them. Scions have a lot of rich tradition of ancient predecessors to draw on, but their existence right here, right now is part of the game's universe, not mythology's (though of course it draws on every mythic trope out there).
We've blogged about this before, but basically we think that the two approaches you refer to are probably both represented. There are likely to be some gods who have been horsing around with mortals all along and therefore had Scions ready to be tapped; Zeus and Cernunnos and their ilk have always been all about a little Spring Break action in the World, so there's little reason they would have stopped just because they weren't making Scions anymore for the past few centuries. The dudes and ladies of the World haven't gotten any less hot, amirite?
For most gods who aren't famous philanderers, however, it's probably closer to the second case, where they've begun creating Scions now in response to the Titanic crisis looming before them. The majority of them have probably been staying out of the World to avoid Fatebonds, and many deities have no mythic or historic interest in shenanigans with mortals at all and would need a very good reason to go start messing around. There are many more gods who don't mess around with mortals than who do, so the Scions of those gods literally would not exist without the threat of the escaped Titans to force their parents to create them.
It's much more likely that the majority of Scions are divine shock troops, specifically created in order to help their divine parents in the Titanic struggle unfolding in the Overworlds. But there are probably a few gods who, having always been happily canoodling with mortals over the years, had a few options ready to go as soon as they realized they needed them.
Friday, December 14, 2012
Thursday, December 13, 2012
The Way We Were
Question: Do any of your characters have or do anything that reminds them of their time before they became Scions?
Oh, definitely. Scions were all human once, after all, and often remain much more human than their peers even after they become gods. It comes with the territory; a god like Zeus can never really "get" mortals and their fragile, tiny lives, but a god who came up from that ground floor has intimate knowledge of what mortal life was like and who he or she was back then. It's part of what makes them able to connect more fully with the modern world and fight for the rights and needs of humanity that much more passionately.
Of our characters, some are more "human" than others and always have been, but most of them have things that remind them of their long-ago status as members of the human race.
For Eztli, her own face reminds her of her origins; while she recently used Health to cleanse all of the remaining mortal Aztecs of their European bloodlines and return them to pure Mexica stock, she was born mestizo and will always be mestizo, as will her children, an irony when she and the other Scions of her generation are now the only ones. Her mortal military training also continues to color her world, which is just as much about following the orders of her generals (Geoff, or the Tezcatlipocas) for the safety and betterment of her people now as it was when she carried an assault rifle to do it. She also still lives in Mexico City, where she lived as a human, now as its patron protector and goddess; her memory isn't always reliable enough to remember her days in the shantytowns on its outskirts, but their echo is always there.
Sowiljr may be de facto king of the Aesir now, but he still spent a lot of a recent game in the kitchen helping prepare for a wedding feast, traces of the five-star Vegas chef he was before Visitation lingering on. His entire status as god of marital fidelity and family has its roots in his mortal life, in which the absence of his father and the struggles he watched his mother endure made him swear that he would never let his own family be treated the same way; that long-ago memory of his own wish that his father had been there for him is behind a lot of his careful shepherding of his own sons and his determination to foster happy families.
Jioni's come a long way from mortal life to Queen of Erebus, but some things have never changed; her skills as a doctor and way with corpses were things she was good at long before her visitation, when she was a star med student and a county coroner. Her mortician's jacket stayed with her for many of those years, transformed into a relic that she didn't lose until godhood, and her relic flask of rum is just as much her friend now as it was when she was sneaking alcohol in Catholic school.
Terminus, oddly enough, might be the closest of all the Scions-become-gods to humanity; he's still carrying and using an iPhone (albeit a magic one), frequently uses Avatar to shrink himself down to become human in capabilities and powers, and actually went to his hometown to get his mortal mother and transplant her to his cult where he could be sure she would be taken better care of. Of all of our characters, he's probably the most fond of humanity and their hijinks, and most misses being one of their carefree number. Also, whenever he goes to his cult now, his mom nags him.
Not all of our characters are closely tied to their mortal roots; Vala's father nuked most of her mortal life to keep her from having anything to do but his errands, Aiona never liked humanity in the first place and never looks back on her humble origins, Marcus went mad around mid-Demigod and can barely remember who he is now much less who he was then, and Folkwardr hasn't been human in centuries and has little left of his mortal life. But they were all still human once, and even if they no longer carry much of it with them or don't think about where they came from, it had an inescapable effect on who they are now and what they grew into as deities.
Oh, definitely. Scions were all human once, after all, and often remain much more human than their peers even after they become gods. It comes with the territory; a god like Zeus can never really "get" mortals and their fragile, tiny lives, but a god who came up from that ground floor has intimate knowledge of what mortal life was like and who he or she was back then. It's part of what makes them able to connect more fully with the modern world and fight for the rights and needs of humanity that much more passionately.
Of our characters, some are more "human" than others and always have been, but most of them have things that remind them of their long-ago status as members of the human race.
For Eztli, her own face reminds her of her origins; while she recently used Health to cleanse all of the remaining mortal Aztecs of their European bloodlines and return them to pure Mexica stock, she was born mestizo and will always be mestizo, as will her children, an irony when she and the other Scions of her generation are now the only ones. Her mortal military training also continues to color her world, which is just as much about following the orders of her generals (Geoff, or the Tezcatlipocas) for the safety and betterment of her people now as it was when she carried an assault rifle to do it. She also still lives in Mexico City, where she lived as a human, now as its patron protector and goddess; her memory isn't always reliable enough to remember her days in the shantytowns on its outskirts, but their echo is always there.
Sowiljr may be de facto king of the Aesir now, but he still spent a lot of a recent game in the kitchen helping prepare for a wedding feast, traces of the five-star Vegas chef he was before Visitation lingering on. His entire status as god of marital fidelity and family has its roots in his mortal life, in which the absence of his father and the struggles he watched his mother endure made him swear that he would never let his own family be treated the same way; that long-ago memory of his own wish that his father had been there for him is behind a lot of his careful shepherding of his own sons and his determination to foster happy families.
Jioni's come a long way from mortal life to Queen of Erebus, but some things have never changed; her skills as a doctor and way with corpses were things she was good at long before her visitation, when she was a star med student and a county coroner. Her mortician's jacket stayed with her for many of those years, transformed into a relic that she didn't lose until godhood, and her relic flask of rum is just as much her friend now as it was when she was sneaking alcohol in Catholic school.
Terminus, oddly enough, might be the closest of all the Scions-become-gods to humanity; he's still carrying and using an iPhone (albeit a magic one), frequently uses Avatar to shrink himself down to become human in capabilities and powers, and actually went to his hometown to get his mortal mother and transplant her to his cult where he could be sure she would be taken better care of. Of all of our characters, he's probably the most fond of humanity and their hijinks, and most misses being one of their carefree number. Also, whenever he goes to his cult now, his mom nags him.
Not all of our characters are closely tied to their mortal roots; Vala's father nuked most of her mortal life to keep her from having anything to do but his errands, Aiona never liked humanity in the first place and never looks back on her humble origins, Marcus went mad around mid-Demigod and can barely remember who he is now much less who he was then, and Folkwardr hasn't been human in centuries and has little left of his mortal life. But they were all still human once, and even if they no longer carry much of it with them or don't think about where they came from, it had an inescapable effect on who they are now and what they grew into as deities.
Soapstone Venus
Question: Have you guys got any opinons or thoughts on what kind of figure the prehistoric Venus Figurines might have represented? A Titan of some sort, I assume.
I'm sure most of us have seen Venus figurines before, but here's (arguably) the most famous one, the Venus of Willendorf:
There are myriad Venus figurines, found in various prehistoric sites all over Europe; the name's a reference to the fact that they're generally thought to represent an image of female beauty and sexuality, or perhaps an ancient diety associated with the same.
As far as what the figurines might represent, however, nobody really has the faintest idea (which I'm sure is what prompted this question!). They're truly prehistoric, which means we have nothing but sparse archaeological remains to tell us about the people who made them, no language or reliable art to suggest a religion, and basically no way of ever knowing if these statues represented a goddess, an abstract concept, or were even involved in a religion at all.
As always in Scion, there's a conundrum of what to do with prehistoric religions - we can assume that they must have existed and even come up with things their long-gone gods have been doing, but it would all be pure invention since we have literally no prehistoric mythology to base it on. If you consider the Venus figurines to be relics of one of these bygone prehistoric religions, they may be representations of some goddess that no longer exists, or who has sunk so far away from the consciousness of the world that no Scion will ever run into her. They might also be simple religious effigies, offerings for fertility or small protective charms; they don't have to be related to a deity at all, and might be considered artifacts of a time when humanity existed without worshiping gods and did not enjoy their attention as much as they do now.
But I agree with you, question-asker - Titan is probably the way to go. The Titans are pretty much the first, primordial deities whose existence and worship predates that of the current gods, so it's not a stretch at all to assume that they were the reigning deities of the prehistoric world. The Venuses' bulging hips, ample breasts and frequent lack of personality features suggest a primordial mother figure, someone revered for fertility and birth; Gaia, Ki, Danu, Jord and other ancient earth-mother figures are good candidates. Modern anthropologists tend to look at the Venuses in terms of a single representative figure, but different prehistoric cultures across Europe and Asia might have made similar totems for different mother goddesses, so nobody's forced to fall down the well of comparative mythology. You could also consider them to be ancient images of more current mother-goddesses like Mokosh or Demeter, though we think Titans make more sense for the prehistoric era.
Using Venus figurines and other prehistoric artifacts as possible relics or connections to once-worshiped Titans might be a good place for some interesting plot hooks for young Scions, who have to find them and get them away from humanity, prevent them from activating or giving said Titans power, or struggle with the fact that they provide really tasty bonuses despite their unsavory origins.
I'm sure most of us have seen Venus figurines before, but here's (arguably) the most famous one, the Venus of Willendorf:
There are myriad Venus figurines, found in various prehistoric sites all over Europe; the name's a reference to the fact that they're generally thought to represent an image of female beauty and sexuality, or perhaps an ancient diety associated with the same.
As far as what the figurines might represent, however, nobody really has the faintest idea (which I'm sure is what prompted this question!). They're truly prehistoric, which means we have nothing but sparse archaeological remains to tell us about the people who made them, no language or reliable art to suggest a religion, and basically no way of ever knowing if these statues represented a goddess, an abstract concept, or were even involved in a religion at all.
As always in Scion, there's a conundrum of what to do with prehistoric religions - we can assume that they must have existed and even come up with things their long-gone gods have been doing, but it would all be pure invention since we have literally no prehistoric mythology to base it on. If you consider the Venus figurines to be relics of one of these bygone prehistoric religions, they may be representations of some goddess that no longer exists, or who has sunk so far away from the consciousness of the world that no Scion will ever run into her. They might also be simple religious effigies, offerings for fertility or small protective charms; they don't have to be related to a deity at all, and might be considered artifacts of a time when humanity existed without worshiping gods and did not enjoy their attention as much as they do now.
But I agree with you, question-asker - Titan is probably the way to go. The Titans are pretty much the first, primordial deities whose existence and worship predates that of the current gods, so it's not a stretch at all to assume that they were the reigning deities of the prehistoric world. The Venuses' bulging hips, ample breasts and frequent lack of personality features suggest a primordial mother figure, someone revered for fertility and birth; Gaia, Ki, Danu, Jord and other ancient earth-mother figures are good candidates. Modern anthropologists tend to look at the Venuses in terms of a single representative figure, but different prehistoric cultures across Europe and Asia might have made similar totems for different mother goddesses, so nobody's forced to fall down the well of comparative mythology. You could also consider them to be ancient images of more current mother-goddesses like Mokosh or Demeter, though we think Titans make more sense for the prehistoric era.
Using Venus figurines and other prehistoric artifacts as possible relics or connections to once-worshiped Titans might be a good place for some interesting plot hooks for young Scions, who have to find them and get them away from humanity, prevent them from activating or giving said Titans power, or struggle with the fact that they provide really tasty bonuses despite their unsavory origins.
Wednesday, December 12, 2012
Lady of the Stormwinds
Question: What led you to the decision to make Oya a Titan Avatar? She doesn't seem especially antagonistic and/or Titanic. She seems more like an analog of the likes of The Morrigan or Kali. Does she lack a priesthood or cults or worshippers the way most Titans do?
Oya's a very interesting goddess; she certainly does fulfill many of the same functions as your classic Morrigan or Kali figure, being a war-goddess who curbstomps the opposition and generally frightens even people on her own side, but we probably wouldn't put her in quite the same category with them. Oya has a temper, but she isn't the same flavor of uncontrollable batshit as Kali - which is actually most of her problem. She has just enough control to make bad decisions and then fly off the handle about them.
Oya became a Titan Avatar for us not because she didn't have any cult worship (she did, and still does in the more southerly of the diaspora religions), but because she very specifically takes on an antagonistic role for her pantheon and gets violently kicked out of it. Goddesses like Kali or the Morrigan are scary and crazy, but they don't betray or actively endanger their pantheon when properly controlled; ain't no controlling Oya, who makes her own decisions, one of which was to steal Eshu's magic powders that were meant for Shango and consume them, thus taking some of his might for herself (in other versions of the myth, she hides the magic powder from him out of jealousy of his power, attempting to make him lose control of his kingdom). The resulting axe-waving, thunderstorming, getting-other-people-killed, running-off-to-found-a-rival-kingdom snafu was a pretty strong, pretty permanent exit from the pantheon as a whole.
You certainly could play Oya as merely a disenfranchised goddess who broods in her cranky solitude and keeps her own cult going in spite of her exile, but we felt that Oya's status as demonstrably powerful, chaotically unpredictable and full of bad history with the pantheon's king warranted her elevation to the level of Titan Avatar. Like other similar figures (Malinalxochitl among the Aztlanti, for example), she's clearly not playing for the home team anymore, so it's really a question of what power level you want her at and how much or little you want PCs to interact with her.
Oya's a very interesting goddess; she certainly does fulfill many of the same functions as your classic Morrigan or Kali figure, being a war-goddess who curbstomps the opposition and generally frightens even people on her own side, but we probably wouldn't put her in quite the same category with them. Oya has a temper, but she isn't the same flavor of uncontrollable batshit as Kali - which is actually most of her problem. She has just enough control to make bad decisions and then fly off the handle about them.
Oya became a Titan Avatar for us not because she didn't have any cult worship (she did, and still does in the more southerly of the diaspora religions), but because she very specifically takes on an antagonistic role for her pantheon and gets violently kicked out of it. Goddesses like Kali or the Morrigan are scary and crazy, but they don't betray or actively endanger their pantheon when properly controlled; ain't no controlling Oya, who makes her own decisions, one of which was to steal Eshu's magic powders that were meant for Shango and consume them, thus taking some of his might for herself (in other versions of the myth, she hides the magic powder from him out of jealousy of his power, attempting to make him lose control of his kingdom). The resulting axe-waving, thunderstorming, getting-other-people-killed, running-off-to-found-a-rival-kingdom snafu was a pretty strong, pretty permanent exit from the pantheon as a whole.
You certainly could play Oya as merely a disenfranchised goddess who broods in her cranky solitude and keeps her own cult going in spite of her exile, but we felt that Oya's status as demonstrably powerful, chaotically unpredictable and full of bad history with the pantheon's king warranted her elevation to the level of Titan Avatar. Like other similar figures (Malinalxochitl among the Aztlanti, for example), she's clearly not playing for the home team anymore, so it's really a question of what power level you want her at and how much or little you want PCs to interact with her.
Hacked!
Question: Hey, the Vala Twitter account has possibly been hacked. Weight loss pills?
Hey, there, thank you! We've removed the offending tweet and refreshed passwords and security on the account. Damn resourceful spammers.
Unfortunately for Vala, her weight-loss program has nothing to do with pills and everything to do with starving to death while being knocked over by Prophecy every few feet. It's not a healthy alternative. Nobody try it.
Hey, there, thank you! We've removed the offending tweet and refreshed passwords and security on the account. Damn resourceful spammers.
Unfortunately for Vala, her weight-loss program has nothing to do with pills and everything to do with starving to death while being knocked over by Prophecy every few feet. It's not a healthy alternative. Nobody try it.
Stealing Souls
Question: I’ve read that in some cases an accomplished Nagual could steal the Nagualli of others. How would you handle that in your system?
Trying to navigate the murky waters of the traditional Aztec concept of a nahualli versus the modern Mesoamerican idea of nagualli is a tricky proposition. The two concepts are clearly closely related, but they don't always work in practice in quite the same manner; your question's a good example, because while modern folklore does indeed suggest that nagualli (human magicians) might steal the spirit-twins of others for themselves, we don't actually know of any examples of that in older Aztec myth. The traditional Aztec nahualli is literally half of a person's soul, the animal totem that everyone has but only the most magically gifted or important of people can interact with or harness. Huitzilopochtli is the hummingbird, Tezcatlipoca is the jaguar, and Quetzalcoatl is the plumed serpent; trying to steal that from them would be literally stealing a part of themselves, a much more enormous endeavor than merely stealing a normal tool or bonus.
Since nahualli are Birthrights in our system, it's easiest to just go with the folkloric flow on this one: in order to try to steal a nahualli, you have to be an incredible magician, so in order to steal a nahualli Birthright, you have to be Magic god enough to have the Steal Birthright spell. Furthermore, we'd require that anyone attempting to sever a nahualli from its other half would need to have all ten levels of Itztli, thus illustrating total mastery over the secret powers of the Aztecs. Once severed from the Scion, a god could attempt to rebind the nahualli to himself with Birthright Bond, but in the time that it was ownerless it would have its own free will and could do whatever it wanted, so he'd have to be careful that it didn't tear his head off for ripping it away from the rest of its soul. We'd probably also give it a resistance roll to try to fight off anyone trying to rebind it to a soul that it wasn't meant to share.
Someone attempting to steal a nahualli without being Aztec herself would have an even more difficult road ahead of her; we'd probably require nothing less than the Wyrd to successfully sever it from its owner, and even if she succeeded in in turn binding it to herself, it would probably be as a normal Creature Birthright, not a true nahualli. And, Aztec or not, it goes without saying that the political and social fallout from stealing a nahualli would be massive and possibly unsurvivable; such an act is an incredibly damaging attack on the person who loses their totem animal and a dangerous precedent for anyone to set, and the Aztlanti are likely to terminate with extreme prejudice.
If you're looking for a much lower-scale way to represent the idea of human or low-Legend Scion sorcerers messing around with the nahualli of others, you'll probably need a custom Birthright that allows them to do so (perhaps through creative use of the Fate Prison spell?) and they can probably only do so for the nahualli of people who haven't yet discovered or been able to interact with theirs, possibly only for short periods of time. Once someone has harnessed and become one with their nahualli, it's nearly impossible to ever separate the two again.
Trying to navigate the murky waters of the traditional Aztec concept of a nahualli versus the modern Mesoamerican idea of nagualli is a tricky proposition. The two concepts are clearly closely related, but they don't always work in practice in quite the same manner; your question's a good example, because while modern folklore does indeed suggest that nagualli (human magicians) might steal the spirit-twins of others for themselves, we don't actually know of any examples of that in older Aztec myth. The traditional Aztec nahualli is literally half of a person's soul, the animal totem that everyone has but only the most magically gifted or important of people can interact with or harness. Huitzilopochtli is the hummingbird, Tezcatlipoca is the jaguar, and Quetzalcoatl is the plumed serpent; trying to steal that from them would be literally stealing a part of themselves, a much more enormous endeavor than merely stealing a normal tool or bonus.
Since nahualli are Birthrights in our system, it's easiest to just go with the folkloric flow on this one: in order to try to steal a nahualli, you have to be an incredible magician, so in order to steal a nahualli Birthright, you have to be Magic god enough to have the Steal Birthright spell. Furthermore, we'd require that anyone attempting to sever a nahualli from its other half would need to have all ten levels of Itztli, thus illustrating total mastery over the secret powers of the Aztecs. Once severed from the Scion, a god could attempt to rebind the nahualli to himself with Birthright Bond, but in the time that it was ownerless it would have its own free will and could do whatever it wanted, so he'd have to be careful that it didn't tear his head off for ripping it away from the rest of its soul. We'd probably also give it a resistance roll to try to fight off anyone trying to rebind it to a soul that it wasn't meant to share.
Someone attempting to steal a nahualli without being Aztec herself would have an even more difficult road ahead of her; we'd probably require nothing less than the Wyrd to successfully sever it from its owner, and even if she succeeded in in turn binding it to herself, it would probably be as a normal Creature Birthright, not a true nahualli. And, Aztec or not, it goes without saying that the political and social fallout from stealing a nahualli would be massive and possibly unsurvivable; such an act is an incredibly damaging attack on the person who loses their totem animal and a dangerous precedent for anyone to set, and the Aztlanti are likely to terminate with extreme prejudice.
If you're looking for a much lower-scale way to represent the idea of human or low-Legend Scion sorcerers messing around with the nahualli of others, you'll probably need a custom Birthright that allows them to do so (perhaps through creative use of the Fate Prison spell?) and they can probably only do so for the nahualli of people who haven't yet discovered or been able to interact with theirs, possibly only for short periods of time. Once someone has harnessed and become one with their nahualli, it's nearly impossible to ever separate the two again.
Tuesday, December 11, 2012
Black Sheep of the Family
Question: Do you think Loki is as dependant on Idun's apples as the rest of the Aesir? He was quick to give them up and also tasked with getting them back on his own (unless he was also just as aged as the rest of the Aesir).
I wouldn't read too much into Loki being "quick to give up" the apples. Loki's always quick to do things that prevent him from getting dead, and at the time he was being carried around by a giant eagle that was banging him into things and threatening him. It also wasn't Loki's idea to give Thjazi Idun and her apples; those were Thjazi's terms for letting him down without killing him. This is actually not one of Loki's occasional sourceless prankings but a case of him being blackmailed into these shenanigans (not that that's any better as far as the Norse are concerned, of course).
The question of whether or not Loki needs the apples is an interesting one; the answer really depends on whether or not you consider Loki to actually be Aesir. Scion certainly makes him as much a part of the pantheon as everyone else, sharing their Virtues, PSPs and problems, so if you decide he isn't Aesir enough to be part of the apple ritual, why is he Aesir enough to be part of the pantheon with the same PSP and Virtues as everyone else? Loki certainly often plays the role of outsider among the Aesir and is known to be half giant, but the Prose Edda specifically says that he is considered one of them, and certainly the Aesir are not generally averse to marrying and hanging out with giants on a pretty regular basis (not to mention that they descend from a dude created by Ymir in the first place). Add to that the fact that he's Odin's blood-brother and therefore has some of the highest status in Asgard despite the general dislike of his personality, and we can't see how you could accurately claim that Loki isn't Aesir. He may be the pain in the ass of the pantheon, but being a pain in the ass doesn't disqualify you from membership, or else all the trickster gods of the world would be homeless hobos (well, more than they are now, anyway).
So yes, we would assume that Loki is indeed one of the Aesir and that he needs the apples as much as everyone else; he probably would have preferred not to have to give them up and then go retrieve them, but sometimes it's better to survive and have to get a little old than to get killed by a giant to avoid giving up your eternal youth. Living tricksters can fix whatever mess they've created that everyone's pissed off at them for, but dead tricksters are just dead.
I wouldn't read too much into Loki being "quick to give up" the apples. Loki's always quick to do things that prevent him from getting dead, and at the time he was being carried around by a giant eagle that was banging him into things and threatening him. It also wasn't Loki's idea to give Thjazi Idun and her apples; those were Thjazi's terms for letting him down without killing him. This is actually not one of Loki's occasional sourceless prankings but a case of him being blackmailed into these shenanigans (not that that's any better as far as the Norse are concerned, of course).
The question of whether or not Loki needs the apples is an interesting one; the answer really depends on whether or not you consider Loki to actually be Aesir. Scion certainly makes him as much a part of the pantheon as everyone else, sharing their Virtues, PSPs and problems, so if you decide he isn't Aesir enough to be part of the apple ritual, why is he Aesir enough to be part of the pantheon with the same PSP and Virtues as everyone else? Loki certainly often plays the role of outsider among the Aesir and is known to be half giant, but the Prose Edda specifically says that he is considered one of them, and certainly the Aesir are not generally averse to marrying and hanging out with giants on a pretty regular basis (not to mention that they descend from a dude created by Ymir in the first place). Add to that the fact that he's Odin's blood-brother and therefore has some of the highest status in Asgard despite the general dislike of his personality, and we can't see how you could accurately claim that Loki isn't Aesir. He may be the pain in the ass of the pantheon, but being a pain in the ass doesn't disqualify you from membership, or else all the trickster gods of the world would be homeless hobos (well, more than they are now, anyway).
So yes, we would assume that Loki is indeed one of the Aesir and that he needs the apples as much as everyone else; he probably would have preferred not to have to give them up and then go retrieve them, but sometimes it's better to survive and have to get a little old than to get killed by a giant to avoid giving up your eternal youth. Living tricksters can fix whatever mess they've created that everyone's pissed off at them for, but dead tricksters are just dead.
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